Co-conscious?

Yeah. I hadn't thought about it either. The only time there is more than 2 upfront is when the littles Alice and Kerry blend together. They come together a lot now because they like the same things. Like sisters I guess.

And Rage, I asked my assessor that second question and he said yes. Dissociation has no time limit. It is also amnesia when the host is there but later doesn't remember. Happens to me all the time.

B

Demon Lilith wrote:Wait, now I'm completely confused.

I would never want to confuse you dear - it's nice to know you are still around!

Tylas, are you saying that it's possible to hear or talk to multiple alters at once,

Yes, there is a communication system that allows all alters to hear at once. This is fact.

but only two alters could be really controlling the body at once...?

I STRONGLY believe so, yes --- but I am going to try and find some references for this.

Also, just to clarify on the DSM-V. I was under the impression that "Recurrent gaps in the recall of everyday events, important personal information, and/or traumatic events that are inconsistent with ordinary forgetting" didn't just refer to blackouts. For example, if our core is always present for things, but is later unable to recall more than a few minutes of the day despite never actually leaving the body, that would still be a gap in recall. Right?

This is a problem. The DSM 5 NEEDS to define time loss! I asked my T about this and he said professionals know what it is and it does not need to be defined. I countered with it being a point of misconception often!

So - this is what is proposed right now for the DSM 5
Recurrent gaps in the recall of everyday events, important personal information, and/or traumatic events that are inconsistent with ordinary forgetting.

Let's Define the Last two since this is the problem I think:
1. Amnesia for trauma events at any time does not count. After all this is not unique to DID.

Ideas?
2. Recurrent gaps in everyday events.
3. Personal Information

I'm happy I didn't come off as arguing. I really do just want to understand, and some of this stuff is majorly confusing.

Maybe I should clarify that for us, being up front doesn't necessarily equal being in control of the body. Usually it's me and one other person directly in front, while the others are up front but not controlling the body or anything. Commenting, offering insight, etc... I don't know, maybe we're in agreement and I am bad at explaining.

I don't think I ever argue or take anyone as arguing until they pull out their claws and attack. lol

I like to learn and my feelings are if you don't want to learn or participate in a thread - just dont look at it!

I love questions like yours! Speak your mind! Ask your questions!

I have learned so much in this group by doing just that! If I get off track, someone usually puts me back on the right one!

I am not your T! That is the one you need to discuss this with. I am not making a call for anyone and all this co - front - stuff is hard to grasp! The whole area of diagnosing is so difficult! I would not want to be the one to try and do it. Leave it to those who have dedicated their lives to this sort of thing.

"1. Amnesia for trauma events at any time does not count. After all this is not unique to DID. "

Who says it doesn't count? I think it's a huge part of what DID is.

bourbon wrote:"1. Amnesia for trauma events at any time does not count. After all this is not unique to DID. "

Who says it doesn't count? I think it's a huge part of what DID is.

Of course it counts, but memory loss during trauma is certainly not unique to DID. Those with PTSD or even every day car accidents experience amnesia for the trauma event. Do you see what I mean? Amnesia for a trauma event does not mean you have DID.

Amnesia (Time Loss) at other times - EVERY DAY EVENTS - probably does, unless affected by .... the final criteria set down in the proposed DSM 5.

The disturbance is not a normal part of a broadly accepted cultural or religious practice. (Note: In children, the symptoms are not attributable to imaginary playmates or other fantasy play.)

The symptoms are not attributable to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., blackouts or chaotic behavior during Alcohol Intoxication) or another medical condition (e.g., complex partial seizures).

No - amnesia for trauma events PLUS all the other issues (non amnesia related) does mean you're DID. I don't think you can say someone has DID only if they have amnesia for present day, despite all the other symptomology matching. That kinda thinking really fed my denial when I was unaware of how amnesia can manifest itself in some systems.

guys, this is a great thread. So yes I am still curious about the DID only having 2 fronting at a time, but I guess tylas you are searching for the details. I'm just really curious, not from a standpoint of a diagnosis of DID or DIDNOS but rather why only two?

But I am also learning what it means to be co-pres, co-con or just aware of another. And also before we know of the others, what was the awareness like, or lack there of?

Also the amnesia - amnestic to who? To all of the alters, to the one fronting at the time? Say you have lost time for a period of time, does it mean no one has that information? I thought the other alter did, so at some level, the amnesia is restricted to unaware parts. And what if the parts are sharing the information? I guess I am interested in elaboration of bourbon's point

That kinda thinking really fed my denial when I was unaware of how amnesia can manifest itself in some systems.

Sam

bourbon wrote:I don't think you can say someone has DID only if they have amnesia for present day,

Yes, we agree. That is why I am asking for definitions. I printed out a long paper on it that I am going to read tonight. I have no answers for this. The definition of time loss frustrates me.

I have found this whole conversation to be very interesting... As someone who doesn't have DID, but very clearly does have a complex dissociative disorder, it is interesting to see a discussion about the distinctions between DDNOS-type 1 and DID.

tylas wrote:
Category Triggers

DDNOS-1 can have over 100 parts as well as DID. In DID however there is more than one part that is an Apparently Normal Part. In DDNOS-1 there is only one ANP, but there can be a multitude of Emotional Parts.

One of the things that has puzzled me was how once I really started to pay attention, just how many tiny fragmentary parts there are for me (there are a few fuller parts, but the greatest number are more fragmentary). It is like they exist to hold a particularly memory or even an aspect of an especially traumatic memory. There is substance to these parts in my interactions with them, but they don't have a separate sense of history in the way that alters seem to. They are both very clearly me and they yet they are also separate. The way that I think of it right now is that they all represent different parts of the experience of the Child Who I Was. When the abuse happened, it was simply impossible for me to allow the experiences to remain as a whole- I don't think that I could have survived it. Even now, it is far too painful for me to allow what my kids each hold to come into contact- it still seems way too explosive, but at least I am slowly starting to really see the whole picture.

tylas wrote:The way I understand it is that those with DDNOS-1 can have so many parts present at once or that those parts are not isolated as much as with DID that those with DDNOS-1 appear as a mess. They seem to hurt and feel more than the person with DID. They appear much more distressed than someone with DID. Their parts of self are not as isolated.

In DID, the ANP's handle much of life - there can even be one for each stressful situation. ANP's make life in general easy compared to those with DDNOS-1 that only have one ANP. Also usually with a female with DID, the ANP is hypo-aroused - again making it simply easier to handle life.

I am the only one who interfaces with the world in my system. My other parts can definitely influence me and even take partial control, but they don't have any desire to take on dealing with anyone other than me, my therapist, and to a lesser extent my husband. I am always aware of what is going on, even if I am not always in control of what is going on.

I do seem to have a couple of helper parts, but their purposes are to help me internally, either by getting my attention when I am avoiding dealing with things that I need to or by supporting me, when I am completely overwhelmed and at a loss of how to cope. All other parts are kid parts who are at the various ages that certain things took place, going from young until age 10.

One of the things that I experience and that I haven't really heard described elsewhere is how my parts can be flexible in terms of form, based on what my system seems to need at a particular time. So if I am getting anywhere near the memories, they fragment the experiences into manageable bits and the more directly I deal with a particularly horrible incident, the more it is fragmented. But if I simply need to comfort and support the child who experienced the abuse at age 10, for example, they draw together into a single child, so I can comfort them all at the same time. This isn't something that I have any sense of control over- it just happens.

I have talked with my T about how I am quite aware that these parts are all me. These were experiences that I went through. But at this point, it is just way too painful for me to fully own that. So for now, they all remain parts of the Child Who I Was. My sense is that as I work through and resolve the trauma for each of these parts, they will naturally integrate with me. I have had one experience of the partial integration of one of these very traumatized parts and feeling her really get that she is now safe and come into me was amazing. I suspect that I need to finish processing the other pieces of that memory chunk before she can be fully integrated. But she is now at the point where we are ready to be very, very close to each other and she is determined that she is never going back into that terrible place where the other parts are still caught. My hope is that after I have finished dealing with the other parts of that particular memory, all of the parts who hold pieces of that memory will naturally transition from "she" to "me" and fully integrate. But I haven't gotten there yet, so I don't really know what will happen.