About "host" and "alters" division...

I have a question that maybe some of you don't understand... I'll try to be as clear as I can, anyway.

Well, I dont even know how to start, Im trying to write the question, but cant get it out right...
I just wanted to know if any of you are in the same situation...

I always read that there is a "host" and "alters", the first one, the "owner of th body" and the alters that appeared afterwards.

What happens when there is no clear division? When not even the system is sure who is the host, the main? What if the one who is in control of the body most of the time, the one who lives everyday's life, isn't the one who carries the person's name? Does that make him an alter, is the name enough to say one is the main?
And if more than one of them carries the name, the one who spends the most time out should be considered the host, right?
But, what happens when that one, one of the alters that has the person's name, claims to have been created some time ago, and that the original is another one, one who also has the name, but is almost never out?

Is there a "host" and "alters", in that case, or they're all in the same "group"?

I dont mean any offense to anyone, I'm not saying that "the host is superior" or that "the alters aren't people", I'm just wondering, what happens when the definition isn't clear, is there a line, or just a fog?

I think I should just guide by something one of my teachers once said, "Every single group or classification humas create is only applyable to crtain cases", That's the best thing to think, isnt it, i this case?

Secret wrote:I always read that there is a "host" and "alters", the first one, the "owner of th body" and the alters that appeared afterwards.

Uh... that's not necessarily what host means. The main/host is the one who's in control of the body most of the time. If that personality is gone for some reason, for a long time, another personality would be the host.

I think what you're asking is who is the original (person born to the body). That can be tricky to figure out.

Secret wrote:What if the one who is in control of the body most of the time, the one who lives everyday's life, isn't the one who carries the person's name? Does that make him an alter

Yes. This personality would still be the host, but that doesn't make him/her the original.

Secret wrote:But, what happens when that one, one of the alters that has the person's name, claims to have been created some time ago, and that the original is another one, one who also has the name, but is almost never out?

Maybe the original wasn't strong enough, so others took over. The original can be very fragile. They can even go to "sleep" (too traumatized, so they're not awake and active for a very long time). It can be confusing. We have a 3 year old, with my name... I'm not exactly sure where she fits in.

Secret wrote:Is there a "host" and "alters", in that case, or they're all in the same "group"?

Yeah. The host could be an alter... "host" just means whoever is in control most of the time.

canolime - Maybe the original wasn't strong enough, so others took over. The original can be very fragile.

Secret,

I agree. And I think this is what happened in my case. I care about the original very much but she wasn't strong enough and is quite suicidal. We came to care for her children and worked to keep them safe. Once she saw that they were being taken care of she 'stepped back'. Even as a young wife and mother, she found it all too difficult to deal with.

I pride myself on being able to take care of everyone. I have the help of one other who is also quite strong. And together we take care of the rest. Some we are aware of and some we 'feel' but have no communication with. But we make a point of including "everyone" in plans and discussions as a way to make sure no one is left out - or feels rejected.

The person with DID is very good at cover-up. For instance, my name is the original’s middle name. I got away with using my name by pointing out to anyone who asked that I like to use ? on the net. I also use it in my emails etc. Family and friends just accepted it. But 'we' choose not to discuss DID with them.

As for the original’s name being used by an alter. They are capable of playing tricks. That's why it's important that the original, if she is strong enough, learns all she can about them. And maybe you could keep a note book on the quiet as a way of identify them.

Well I am definitely not the original and if this is the case for anyone else, It can become quite a shock, I don't know what caused my original to disappear at such a young age and the sinking feeling I get when I try to communicate with the original is unbearable, I feel as if I could die at any moment, I was scared when I first found out and realized I was not the original.
For me it started of with denial, on and off for years on end and to this day I still feel scared with emptiness, that I can not get rid of, I wish I could say to you all that nothing changes but for me everything changed.

Well I guess Sarah's afraid she is going to lose herself with being the original. Since there are so many of us and I am the closest one to her. I right now would be an alter, just because I am more of the cooperative one. The others and the little ones however do not see it this way. There are many years between her and the kids alters. I believe I am the only one who, besides Nicodemus that has evolved in age and maturity and possibly could take over the host, though I do not want to. I'm afraid that is what my significant other fears is that Sarah will be no more. I think that is something that needs to be discussed with both of us in therapy. But sometimes a host is an actual alter. I consider Sarah very much an alter even though that is her true name. I sometimes consider myself very much a host sometimes.

It is just something your alters have to figure out.

-Serena

josh_alters wrote:Well I am definitely not the original and if this is the case for anyone else, It can become quite a shock, I don't know what caused my original to disappear at such a young age and the sinking feeling I get when I try to communicate with the original is unbearable, I feel as if I could die at any moment, I was scared when I first found out and realized I was not the original.
For me it started of with denial, on and off for years on end and to this day I still feel scared with emptiness, that I can not get rid of, I wish I could say to you all that nothing changes but for me everything changed.

For me, as soon as I was no longer the original, I was aware of it. A new host had emerged when I had tried to commit suicide in a daze, with a slightly different name and life history, and I knew that I was not the person I had been before. Everyone that knew me recognized how different I was. After about a year of that, this alter host began deteriorating, and when my original personality came back from limbo he dissolved completely, just like that. I actually collapsed and then rose back up.

"Host" is just what you call the alter that is out the most/in control most often/handles everyday life the most often. The host is an alter, just like all other parts/alters.

*Trigger Warning: Talk of DID development*

(Technically, this is still a theory, although the knowledge is current as far as what we know about neurons and the personality developmental processes).

There is no "original", no "core", etc.

DID is caused by trauma (doesn't have to be abuse), and by the interruption/disruption in the personality developmental process, which occur during childhood, hence why DID develops in childhood.

See, we all start out with neurons that make up our personality.

In normal development, these neurons become structured together, sorta "melding", some are kept, others are gotten rid of, and when the neurons are done structuring, a whole personality is formed.

In DID development, that structuring process is disrupted (usually by trauma or side effects of trauma), and so the neurons don't "meld" together and don't structure, they stay separated. These separated neurons create "sides" of the personality, which later create/develop into alters. Thus, there is no "original" because there was never a whole personality formed in the first place. With DID, you basically start out "split".

*End Trigger Warning*


-Cassandra

tomboy24 wrote:"Host" is just what you call the alter that is out the most/in control most often/handles everyday life the most often. The host is an alter, just like all other parts/alters.

*Trigger Warning: Talk of DID development*

(Technically, this is still a theory, although the knowledge is current as far as what we know about neurons and the personality developmental processes).

There is no "original", no "core", etc.

DID is caused by trauma (doesn't have to be abuse), and by the interruption/disruption in the personality developmental process, which occur during childhood, hence why DID develops in childhood.

See, we all start out with neurons that make up our personality.

In normal development, these neurons become structured together, sorta "melding", some are kept, others are gotten rid of, and when the neurons are done structuring, a whole personality is formed.

In DID development, that structuring process is disrupted (usually by trauma or side effects of trauma), and so the neurons don't "meld" together and don't structure, they stay separated. These separated neurons create "sides" of the personality, which later create/develop into alters. Thus, there is no "original" because there was never a whole personality formed in the first place. With DID, you basically start out "split".

*End Trigger Warning*


-Cassandra

You're also suggesting that there was no personality before the trauma occurred... Children do have personalities, they are just not adult personalities. I think when people talk about the "core" they are referring to whatever pieces of that person's identity are entirely connected--if we view that personal entity as a host, then it would be the integral personality, one that represents itself as a host or else remains shut down. That's something along how theory goes.

But to insinuate that the entire personality of a child is erased, and moreover not semblance of it continues passed trauma in any capacity, is hardly reasonable. Unless I'm misinterpreting that idea.

*I'd like to make it clear first and foremost, that I am not angry or upset, and I'm not trying to sound like I'm "getting on" anyone. I'm using all caps for emphasis, nothing more. I type close to how I would speak.*

That is NOT what I'm saying at all.

What I'm saying is, during the personality developmental processes, as children, we do not yet have our personality fully formed. It is FORMING, hence why DID develops in childhood, DURING the time in which those forming/developmental processes for the personality occur.

I'm NOT saying that it gets erased. I'm saying that DURING DEVELOPMENT, before the development is finished and often before it gets very far, the developmental processes for personality are interrupted, and thus the neurons that help to form our personality during the developmental processes do not get structured as they normally would, thus creating "sides" of a personality, which then later create/develop into alters.

There is no "original" because there is no whole personality ever formed, since the developmental processes to form a whole personality were interrupted/disrupted before a whole personality could be formed. I'm NOT saying that there was a personality there and then it got "erased" or anything close to that. What I'm saying is that while the personality is developing, (which you CAN have personality traits while your personality is developing, thus why I said "some neurons will be kept, others will be gotten rid of", because as a child, your personality isn't set in stone yet and is still developing/forming, the neurons are still structuring themselves based on what you learn, your environment, what traits you see/pick up on, etc), but while the personality is developing, with DID there is an interruption/disruption to the developmental processes that causes the neurons to stay separate and not form a whole personality, but instead form sides of the personality, which later develop into alters.

I am NOT suggesting there is no personality when the trauma occurred, I'm saying that the personality is DEVELOPING when the trauma occurs, and the trauma interrupts those developmental processes, causing the neurons to not structure together as they would normally. DID develops in childhood, and childhood is the same time that the personality developmental processes are occurring. You do NOT have a fully-developed/formed personality as a child, it is still developing and forming, and if those processes are disrupted, like by trauma, then they will not develop/form properly (unless the child gets help concerning the trauma).

This "theory" (fact to us) is completely reasonable to us. If you'd like, you can read more about it in this thread:
-- Is there such a thing as splitting?: http://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic101763.html



-Cassandra

tomboy24 wrote:*I'd like to make it clear first and foremost, that I am not angry or upset, and I'm not trying to sound like I'm "getting on" anyone. I'm using all caps for emphasis, nothing more. I type close to how I would speak.*

That is NOT what I'm saying at all.

What I'm saying is, during the personality developmental processes, as children, we do not yet have our personality fully formed. It is FORMING, hence why DID develops in childhood, DURING the time in which those forming/developmental processes for the personality occur.

I'm NOT saying that it gets erased. I'm saying that DURING DEVELOPMENT, before the development is finished and often before it gets very far, the developmental processes for personality are interrupted, and thus the neurons that help to form our personality during the developmental processes do not get structured as they normally would, thus creating "sides" of a personality, which then later create/develop into alters.

There is no "original" because there is no whole personality ever formed, since the developmental processes to form a whole personality were interrupted/disrupted before a whole personality could be formed. I'm NOT saying that there was a personality there and then it got "erased" or anything close to that. What I'm saying is that while the personality is developing, (which you CAN have personality traits while your personality is developing, thus why I said "some neurons will be kept, others will be gotten rid of", because as a child, your personality isn't set in stone yet and is still developing/forming, the neurons are still structuring themselves based on what you learn, your environment, what traits you see/pick up on, etc), but while the personality is developing, with DID there is an interruption/disruption to the developmental processes that causes the neurons to stay separate and not form a whole personality, but instead form sides of the personality, which later develop into alters.

I am NOT suggesting there is no personality when the trauma occurred, I'm saying that the personality is DEVELOPING when the trauma occurs, and the trauma interrupts those developmental processes, causing the neurons to not structure together as they would normally. DID develops in childhood, and childhood is the same time that the personality developmental processes are occurring. You do NOT have a fully-developed/formed personality as a child, it is still developing and forming, and if those processes are disrupted, like by trauma, then they will not develop/form properly (unless the child gets help concerning the trauma).

This "theory" (fact to us) is completely reasonable to us. If you'd like, you can read more about it in this thread:
-- Is there such a thing as splitting?: http://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic101763.html



-Cassandra

I did not mean theory as in a "hypothesis." There are many proven theories that are factual. I wasn't trying to argue the whole case of splitting--as someone with multiple parts I realize that they do exist. However I was arguing against the idea that there's no core with people who have DID. Most professionals do recognize a core of sorts, and I'm inclined to agree with them. That's what I wanted to hear more about. If you don't think there's a core, I want to know why, so that I can learn more and possibly have more realization toward myself as a personality.