Ok who did I come across in my head? TW

Tonight I had a bit of alcohol on my own (not sure if it's related but thought I'd mention anyway) and when it started wearing off, I came across an alter I hadn't "met" before but I know she's been "out" a lot in my life. I was typing on another dissociation support board and she just started saying, "I do not exist".

Like major derealisation/depersonalisation in her, but she is mostly very calm and ok with it, because if she is not real, nothing bad can happen to her at all. She might not talk out loud, she can be nearly catatonic and just stare. She doesn't feel bad or good, she just feels nothing.

She grabbed us for a while the other day, the body entirely stopped moving in a normal everyday situation. I was telling the body to move, but my hands or feet wouldn't do anything until she let go. Now she talked.

If she is not real, there is no violence.

Do you have any idea how to help such an alter? We will see our T next week's Thursday so the pressure is not on you, I was just wondering if someone had ideas about how to start. This alter emerging is likely due to us talking about the worst trauma in our life but forgetting to mention that it rendered us that way (unable to talk, unwilling to move) - she appeared to remind us.
I'm good at going to the inner mental space to talk to alters and change aspects of their world by make believe, so I do take ideas based on that.
Thanks,
Snail


Edit: This is also somebody completely different to Cardboard Cutout Me.
Cardboard is able to look like she is perfectly fine and functional even if several alters are doing very badly. She has few emotions, but she'd never be catatonic or think that she is not real. She is very real and aware of her importance in too emotional situations.

Omg Snail girl. This sounds so much like our Chels it's not funny! I will tell you a bit about her & see if you can see the resemblance, OK?

Chels is the one who took the worse of our trauma. She is a puppet/doll. When we first found her she refused to be alive. It took lots of work to get her to accept that if she can walk & talk & host then she is a 'real girl' not just a puppet (reminds me of pinocio a bit)

See you have cardboard cutout & this new one. Chels is both for us. The catatonic frozen state is a deep level of Chels. On the surface she is a beautiful porcelain puppet with rosey cheeks. Perfect wall flower. A proper little girl.

She still takes over in social situations, frozen, smiling, watching, prim & proper while we freak out on the inside.

When Chels first accepted sge waz a real girl, we were Calling her Chels/Chlo. Chlo being the 'real girl under the costume' and Chels being her 'costume name'. Over time we've realized that her costume can not come off. Have removed the Chlo name & call her cles now.

She takes over quite often actually (now that we've noticed her & have a bit of communication) before hand we just disappeared/amnesia. Now we know it Chels.

When everyone else goes away, Chels is the one who keeps the body functions alive until someone returns.. A deep alter who has experienced near death many times.

Keen to hear if anyone else has one of these alters

Hi ladies,
It sounds like you may have experienced "Tonic Immobility" during your trauma. Are you familiar with this?
You might have heard of the "Fight or Flight" response... but in reality it should be Fight, Flight, or 'FREEZE'... just like a "deer in the headlights."
This is what happens to almost all children as well as grown-up women when they endure sexual or other trauma... it is what our BODY DOES when we CANNOT "fight" or "flee." A coping mechanism in our brain takes over ~ this is NOT a conscious choice ~ it happens whether we want it to or not.
You can read more about it here: http://childhoodtraumarecovery.com/2014 ... od-trauma/

I think this is important to understand because sometimes we are "shamed" by people saying things like "Why didn't you fight, or scream?" or "you didn't even try to run away..." but when we experience TI we CAN'T move or make a sound... we are paralyzed.
Maybe this might be a part of what she experienced... what you felt when she grabbed you...
Many people feel "guilt" for not trying to fight or escape, so it can be very important for them to learn there was nothing they could do, the body could not move, and that was not their fault.
I had to learn to start reading these things out loud so my insiders could hear what I was reading and learning about (they are usually co-present with me, but cannot read along with me).
I'm not sure exactly how to help her... I know my parts need a lot of validation, validation, and MORE validation! I don't think it would be good to "argue" with her, but maybe to validate her "gently" by saying things like "I believe in you" or "I honor you for protecting me." She is an important part of your system; it may be nice for her to hear that.

Thank you SO MUCH Brockovich and Crackerjack, very helpful responses! Yes Brockovich I see the similarities. Cardboard Cutout can temporarily pull off a perfectly happy/calm looking act when things are REALLY hard. One time she emerged when I went to the ER experiencing a nuclear war in my head (well, only one alter had bombs and troops), thank goodness I met a doctor who believed that it is possible to look calm and all kinds of ok even in that situation! That's curious that I have two separate alters for these things, but then again I have seen some people have alters with jobs that only one of mine does all of.

Maybe this might be a part of what she experienced... what you felt when she grabbed you...

That moved something within me

I definitely believe that validation is the right thing to do with any new alter. It just seemed very hard to grasp how to validate someone who "does not exist", but I think I'll begin with Crackerjack's idea. She has been writing some nonsense since, and some of my other alters feel very weird near her but won't say why. Ohh man, it's a bit hard being Host sometimes, being the one to come up with how to help these people when I know less about the inner world than they do. But so far it's been worth it every time.

So here I go, into the mind space... I think this will go in my journey thread.

Thanks again,
Kind regards
Snail

crackerjack wrote:when they endure sexual or other trauma... it is what our BODY DOES when we CANNOT "fight" or "flee." A coping mechanism in our brain takes over ~ this is NOT a conscious choice ~ it happens whether we want it to or not.
You can read more about it here: http://childhoodtraumarecovery.com/2014 ... od-trauma/

I think this is important to understand because sometimes we are "shamed" by people saying things like "Why didn't you fight, or scream?" or "you didn't even try to run away..." but when we experience TI we CAN'T move or make a sound... we are paralyzed.
Maybe this might be a part of what she experienced... what you felt when she grabbed you...
Many people feel "guilt" for not trying to fight or escape, so it can be very important for them to learn there was nothing they could do, the body could not move, and that was not their fault.

Chels just completely took over when reading this!!! It's like a wave of shock & adrenaline pumping through the body. The freeze response. Yes.

There is this thick sickly sticky cloud of guilt that has been suffocating us.. Maybe this is why?

My alters just shifted birth order while reading this. It's like life flashing before the eyes. Internally.

This flash suggested that Stac (our beta kitten/child Concubine) was created after Chels.. Not before.. "If you can't beat them, join them".. " enjoying it is better than wishing you were dead".. Did she really enjoy it? Who enjoyed it? Is that where the guilt is stored?

I always thought Chels came after Stac.. It wasn't that bad until becks started fighting..

What the hell just happened..

Wow it seems this is VERY IMPORTANT.

Seems we too are starting to see our guilt and shame in a different light.
There has been a lot of "you didn't say yes, but you didn't say no either, you didn't do the first thing to stop it" in my head... and I thought the guilt and shame were justified.

Wow... this has been really powerful to read and share with you guys!

snailgirl wrote:That moved something within me

Oh my... I hope it's moving in the right direction...!

snailgirl wrote:Wow it seems this is VERY IMPORTANT.

Seems we too are starting to see our guilt and shame in a different light.
There has been a lot of "you didn't say yes, but you didn't say no either, you didn't do the first thing to stop it" in my head... and I thought the guilt and shame were justified.

RIGHT??? Very Important!!!

As adults we know that if a pedophile hurts a child, that child was 100% Innocent...!
On the other hand, when we WERE children, we feel guilty and blame ourselves.
However, when we felt guilty for experiencing it as a child, and then grow up, we don't necessarily EVER go back and tell ourselves that we were 100% innocent.

In a way, it's sort of like our childhood misunderstandings can actually become like our own form of "brainwashing." An old belief can still be there replaying itself, even when we have no idea it's there.

brockovich4321 wrote:My alters just shifted birth order while reading this. It's like life flashing before the eyes. Internally.

This flash suggested that Stac (our beta kitten/child Concubine) was created after Chels.. Not before.. "If you can't beat them, join them".. " enjoying it is better than wishing you were dead".. Did she really enjoy it? Who enjoyed it? Is that where the guilt is stored?

Whoa...! Big stuff going on here, too!

I didn't even know the birth-order COULD shift...! You asked if someone really enjoyed it, but that doesn't sound right based on what else was said, like: "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." I think, in psychology, that statement is meant as a "surrender." It is what we say/do when we are completely overpowered... so I do NOT think that means "actually" enjoying it. That just means it is another "survival technique." Try to think of it this way: during War, when a soldier surrenders to his enemy, he will not be killed. It is the rules of war. Those who surrendered became "Prisoners of War" ~ P.O.W.'s ~ but they were fed and kept ALIVE... until the war was over!
So I think, whoever said "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" found a way to STAY ALIVE until the 'danger' was over... Surrender = Survival.
Saying "enjoying it is better than wishing you were dead" seems like simply another coping skill... the mind trying to find some way to survive and "get past" whatever bad things happened. It sounds as if you may be releasing some unnecessary or "misplaced guilt.' I think that's the word they call it when we feel guilt for something we are not actually guilty of. I just looked it up and found this:
Misplaced Guilt - Children are particularly prone to feeling misplaced guilt. When something overtly distressing happens to a child they will often need help with feelings of misplaced guilt.

Yes Crackerjack definitely moving in the right direction... made me sad, but able to really honestly say to her that I am sorry things have been so hard for her.

Some of my littles are now also talking to me about this and I can comfort them. This is very good and I am so glad I posted here in the first place.

My system is also sort of re-arranging... not age wise (I think) but new weird rooms in inner space. Some alters are afraid of this new one, some can't move near her. She threatened/scared me (Adult Host) by sucking me into a hole and showing me violence.

Cyan (teen alter) is very good with everyone who is rejected by the rest of the system, so she is ready and willing to approach her and comfort her. She might indeed understand her better than I do, for many reasons.

For a moment I was unsure as to whether to support her in having a functional body and all, but after re-reading this thread I think I will. She already attempted to take a body but it got covered in sticky tar-like substance. Cyan was wiping it off her face when I lost the connection to the two.

She also really needs a name.