Need Advice mom has DID, how to help her Host accept truth?

HI,
My sincere apologies if this is the wrong place to post. I am looking for either other adult children of parents with DID (with multiple personalities) or people with DID who can help with advice to help my mother realize I am telling her the truth... and accept she has done things she doesn't remember, and ACCEPT that I am telling her the truth, without causing her too much pain. Here is the backstory:

From what I know from what my FATHER told me, my mother grew up in a very poor household. Her father was crazy and her mother had breast cancer twice. She had to care for her brother and her family. My father is a psychiatrist, and his first wife left him. I think he was looking for someone beautiful sweet, gentle, adoring, who was broken and needed him, and less educated than him... someone who needed him and would not leave him. That was my host or apn mother. Only, I don't think he knew the extent of the damage that was done to her....

.****trigger warning abuse*** From the age I can remember, my mother physically, emotionally, and verbally abused me. The physical abuse is bad enough there is permanent damage in my neck/spine, discovered in my early 30s. My mother always made sure to NEVER do this in front of my father, and only slipped up A FEW TIMES in front of other kids with the physical abuse, although a childhood friend saw much of the other. CPS was called twice on me, and she lied (or another alter went forward). Her "host" personality, or personality that took care of things and is a sort of cruel and abusive sometimes gatekeeper, was the only one most adults saw. She talked her way out of both CPS calls, and I was terrified to tell anyone. She threatened me physically, verbally, mentally, and that our family would be destroyed and that it would be my fault if I ever said anything. Her verbal and emotional abuse was horribly cruel, to the point of trying to get me to kill myself. She abused my little sister as well, but for some reason, only physically abused her twice... I was the target. My father refused to believe me, even though there was physical evidence at time my mother explained away. He didn't WANT to believe me. He told me that I would be going away to college, and he was going to spend the rest of his life with her, and if had to choose, it would be her. Long story short, I had a miserable, terrifying childhood, and ended up with severe PTSD and anxiety issues. Throughout it all, the only way I survived, suffering in forced threatened silence, was to tell myself she was horrible and bad, I was good... at least she had to live with herself, at least she knew what she did to me. I was honest and good (I don't lie) I was a pure, good person, and she was evil, and at least she had to live with knowing with what she did. I always thought she lied, because although she often said that never happened and she had no idea what I was talking about, she often said she remembered it (always while blaming me or while abusing me....). Not having a clue, I thought she had a simple personality disorder and had difficulty controlling herself.. not that she had DID, so I thought she was lying. ****end abuse trigger warning***

Throughout our childhood, my sister and I always thought my mother was like "Dr Jekyl and Mr. Hyde", only we had no idea how right we really were. Our father, keen to explain things away, believed her (gatekeeper's?) excuses. My sister and I also thought she had severe memory issues, and thought she was getting early alzheimers. For example, she told me about her brother getting in a fist fight with her father protecting her on prom night, then later she denied telling me that, and said it never happened, ***trigger warning, possibly related to abuse*** she said weird sexual things to us growing up she denied saying later, like when my sister was 3 and I was 8,and my sister drew a mountain, she snickered and pointed at the mountain and said "look, it's a phallic symbol..." (um... telling an 8 year old?) telling me I had no idea how lucky we had it, because in "the olden days there was something called a father's perogative", etc...", not to mention many random remembering, then not remembering, as in things she did to us...

When was a teenager, I called her brother, and asked about their father, and told him she was physically, emotionally, and verbally abusive to me, and asked what happened because she always told me something different. He told me their father was a very ill, horrible man, and he was glad he died before my cousin was born. He said my grandfather used to beat the C$%%% out of him and my grandmother constantly, but as far as he knew, he never laid a hand on my mother. I told my mother what my uncle said, she denied it happened. Later, I brought up the conversation again with her, and she said she never had the conversation with me about what my uncle said... *** end trigger warning***

So here I am after 40, and got in a fight with my mother last February. I had been/am going through my own therapy, and my child overheard something by accident and repeated it to her. He asked her about it, and she denied it. Later she called me and asked me about it... I told her he overheard it by accident, and she said... "OK, you know that never really happened though, right???" I was livid and tore into her. Her voice changed, and she shifted. She then said she remembered it, and it was all my fault, everything was my fault, and demanded an apology, and said she would never talk to me, and my kids would never see her again unless I apologized, and hung up.

So then I called my father. He told me had recently seen her with my adult sister (she has been living with them)... and seen what we had been telling us all of those times he didn't believe / denied (he saw her personality totally change, as well as her abusive persona, and her not remember it later). My father was always working when we were kids, and is semi-retired now so happened to be home. And he brought up that he thinks she really has some sort of disassociation going on...
then later I talked more to him about memories she remembered / didn't remember, what my uncle had told me, and he FINALLY listened to everything that had transpired to me when I was a kid, and he is pretty sure that she does have DID. as am I, and am my sister. He said she NEVER talks about her childhood, just says "her parents love her" and that is it, and seems to have huge gaps in time of what she remembers from then, too. It was like a slam in the face. SO OBVIOUS in hindsight.So 100% obvious.

Now, she refuses to get therapy for herself. Recently, as she told my father, she admitted recently she has "defenses up about her childhood, and is afraid if she goes into it too much she will lose who she is".
Here is where I struggle. The only way I survived was believing she had to live with what she did, and finding out she doesn't (her host) has no idea what she did, yanked the rug out from under me and causes me internal turmoil, and I am going through a huge, huge, amount of difficulty and pain and turmoil upon finding that out... that she doesn't even KNOW what happened (see trigger section). NOT ONCE has she not said that I, as a child, was not responsible for what she has done, or admitted she even did things she did. I am also HORRIFIED I left my children alone with her, because since that initial discovery one of my kids has come forward and told me something that happened (that absolutely 100% could NOT have overheard) that happened OFTEN when I was a child... that was... very UNIQUE to the situation and not likely to be made up. I am placing a lot of self blame on myself for not knowing, and thought her actions were based on simple lack of control of emotions, not something else.

It is at the point I do love her, and although when I first found out the only way I would ever be able to have her in my life would be to have her go through therapy and remember every single thing that happened that she doesn't remember, I don't want to cause her more pain. So at this point, the ONLY thing I need from her, is for her to ***trigger warning, abuse*** admit that she knows I am telling the truth, and admit that she KNOWS one of her alters abused me constantly physically, emotionally, and verbally my entire childhood, and she accepts that it happened ***end trigger warning***. That is IT. Yet, she seems unable to do even this, although she admits she knows I don't lie and it "must have happened" (incident we got in fight over).

She told my father she knows I don't lie, that she believes it must have happened. I tried to get CPS records, unfortunatelly they were purged in 1995. However, although she SAYS she believes me, I KNOW her HOST still does not. She talked to my sister, as I told her my sister witnessed things, and she asked my SISTER IF SHE BELIEVED ME. She asked for the names of witnesses I remember. I do have one childhood friend who witnessed some things and texted me the overview of what she remembers... and I contacted her... and she does not want to speak to my mother. She is afraid of conflict, and frankly I think she is afraid of my mother. I can't make her and I don't want to lose my friend, as we had a falling out for about 20 years already. I gave her the names of the other people I know witnessed things in elementary and Jr. High, as at least one told me he reported something, however we were kids and they were not friends, and that was 20-35 years ago, so I hope they remember but they may not. I don't have anyone who is WILLING to talk to her, although one witness outside the family who DOES remember...

My father is looking into us talking at a neutral therapist. I have a therapist, she refuses to go to one of her own. Basically, I am at the point it hurts too much that she does not remember and will not accept what happened, that I love her but I absolutely can not have a relationship with her if she will not accept what happened. In addition, it really hurts that she SAYS she believes me, but she OBVIOUSLY does not. I will not prevent her from seeing my kids, but I will not leave her alone with them because of what my child said happened and the fact she has not dealt with it and gone through therapy. The reason I can't have a relationship with her without it is not revenge or anger, it just hurts WAY too much. The only way this can be achieved is through a neutral therapist... I am so afraid that if I am in the same room with her and she shifts into any of her abusive alters, or even the gatekeeper, I will lose it and start screaming at her, and that should prevent it.

Has anyone else on here been through anything similar? If so, please PM me this is very difficult and I desperately need to talk to people who relate.

For those with DID, can you please help me... HOW can I help her Host accept that I am telling her the truth, and any insight into WHY she will believe other people, but not me... even when she freely admits that she knows I don't lie? Please help me get some insight into this, it is very painful for me.
I know for a fact she definitely has at LEAST these states (don't know ages, but types):

Host: Sweet, charming, people pleaser, giving, does things for people, knows NOTHING of other states. Helpless... ie. Freaks out when car broke down in a strip mall and we had to call AAA on a cell phone

Gatekeeper / Doer / Achiever: Seems to know what ALL states do (the ones that I've seen, anyway). Very street wise. Appears to be teen aged... street smart yet says inappropriate things to kids, etc. Cruel emotionally and verbally abusive at times, blunt, primarily unemotional. EXTREMELY capable - can figure out how to, and independantly re-roof a house, take care of plumbing, etc...

Unknown Child: Seen with my kids. Unknown age, seems very simple, innocent. Loves to play with my kids and sees them and toys with delight. Loses all adult reason (gives them things like lighters and jack-knives to play with as babies, let them play unattended outside near the street...)

Child Martyr/abuser: Unknown age. Childlike, blames others for everything, in a very "catholic guilt" type way, "why do you do this to me..."

Abuser and/or introject: Abusive physically, emotionally, verbally. Emotes sheer rage.

Hi back to you. I think you are in the right place. It certainly sounds like your mother has DID. In fact, when people who are close to a person are convinced the person has DID, usually they are correct. One of my therapists often talks about how the majority of his clients with DID were first diagnosed by a lay person.

Therapist: "So, tell me, why are you here?"

Client: "Well, this is going to sound really weird but my wife/friend/boss says I have DID and insists that I consult a therapist. That I have some kind of mental illness is news to me! Ha ha ha a a... (sobs) God help me. I must be going insane! Is DID even a real thing?"

Your profile name is adult_survivor. You have lots of company here. Every adult who has DID is, just like you, an adult survivor. All too many of the experiences you describe I have experienced in my own family of origin. This includes my deep remorse over having ever allowed my own children unsupervised contact with my parents. My parents are not safe. I was unaware of so many things, and in denial about what I was aware of. Today I can have a relationship of sorts with my parents but both of them are in denial and unless that changes they will have absolutely no unsupervised contact with my children.

Your mother may never break through her own denial, and hostile confrontations usually don't help anyone achieve anything. Until you can manage a compassionate, loving, gentle confrontation then your best option may be to stay away from the whole topic and limit contacts with her to whatever you can manage.

Can you manage yet to feel compassion for her? Do you fully grasp the horror of her own childhood in her sick family of origin that made her a multiple and moreover a multiple with these types of alters? Her host alter sounds profoundly miserable, in an unfortunately very typical way for a host: co-dependent, depressed, depleted, in denial, amnestic, helpless and terribly vulnerable.

She knows you do not lie. And yet you say things about her that she cannot believe are true. As far as she knows those things never happened, she never did those things, so what you say must be false. This is a profound dilemma. So, if she is to believe you then she must either believe two things that cannot both be true or . . . realize there is a way in which both can be true. That way is if she has DID and the things you say she did were done not by her but by some other "not her" part of her.

Has anyone told her that you all think she has DID? Or have you all been holding this back? If you were to tell her that, it might come as a great relief to her. I know my diagnosis was relief for me; it explained so much!

You requested PMs. I won't PM you but I will support you here in the public DID Forum. Posting here helps you and other readers now and in the future.

Hang in there.

Wow thank you so very, very much for your reply! It means a lot to me. It is good to know I'm not alone. (**Trigger Warnings in this post**)

Yes, I think I understand the horror of what my mother went through. I think, and my father, suspect it was much worse than what even my uncle saw (which surely would be enough trauma in itself) due to

***warning trigger possible abuse***

the inappropriate sexual things she said to us when my sister and I were kids, and my Uncle's statement when I asked if their father ever hit her, that he "never ever laid a hand on her"... seemed ominous

***end possible trigger***

I am having difficulty finding any compassion for her and her inability to see the truth. I know DID arises from severe trauma and early PTSD. I can't relate... because I absolutely would believe my kids if they told me I had abused them, even if I had no memories of it. I would in an instant and can't fathom NOT believing, although I know I would also be horrified. This was even before we really found out / it clicked. Why? Probably because it happened to me, and I was denied.

I am also having difficulty for finding compassion, I think, for two additional reasons. I have discussed both much with my therapist.

***trigger warning abuse and suicidal idealization***

The first is.... and this sounds awful... I am jealous and think it is not fair that she can disassociate not only was done but also what she did. I suffered so much, I would have given almost anything to escape reality or memories or even be numb through some of it. I was near suicidal by the time I was 12 and prayed daily for something to kill me. I had no purpose and thought life was misery just waiting to die and escape the terror that that her abusive alter inflicted.. Honestly, the only reason I am alive today, and did not end up drug addict or dead is an Art teacher nurtured s hidden talent and ability to connect with the world through art. I had to suffer through every miserable moment, but I was trapped in my (I believe) whole mind and body suffering every detail.. for me there was no disassociation escape, the only escape I had to look forward to was death.

So yes, it is awful, and I know her abuse was probably worse and likely sexual, but I am oddly resentful and jealous and feel that it isn't fair that she doesn't even have to remember what she did to me and my sister...

It is also hard for me to find sympathy, because part of the abuse her alter inflicted was to blame me, a child, for every fight she got in with my dad, every time she yelled at or hurt my sister, and threatened I would break up the family and never see my dad and sister again, and it was all my fault. Everything bad or horrible she did she blamed me. Even recently. And she still can't/won't admit, to this day, whatever horrible things she may have done to me, my sister, or others, were NOT my fault when I was a child.

I have no proof, but I believe this is likely one of her alters continuing to blame me (who was a child) for her/their actions.

***end possible trigger***

I am 100 percent positive I would feel compassion if her host could accept what happened -without asking her to remember everything- and if she would finally place appropriate blame on her alters that did things, instead of me (when I was a child 2 years old and up). I am not sure I can without that, in combination of having how I coped growing up yanked out from under me. It may not sound ideal, but it is the truth. Offering her knowledge and acceptance is the least I can live with to have a relationship with her (without the thought of being near her being excrutiating). I wish that were not the case, if for the very simple fact ut makes things complex, but it is true.

My diagnosises? My therapist says he does not think I have DID I am "too associated". I have severe PTSD with extreme hypervigilence, extreme anxiety. Borderline has been ruled out.

Yes, we have all told her what we think. I wrote her a letter regarding our last fight she does not remember.

My father is a psychiatrist, and he has told her as well. He cannot diagnose her as she is family, but he is pretty darn sure. I am not sure if he would want her to get therapy for her or not, but he is supporting her getting family therapy with me.

Hi Adult Survivor,

Welcome to the forum. (:

First of all, you went through a lot as a child, and you didn't deserve it. No child deserves that. Absent father, a dissociated abusive mother, who behave differently when you were alone, and when her husband was around; cruelty, psychological, physical and verbal abuse; not being believed by the father, not being validated by the mother, being blamed, yelled at, having the burden of "supposedly" ("supposedly", because that's obviously not your responsibility, nor fault) breaking the family apart.

Now, you mention you want validation from your mother, for what any part of her might have done, in order to have a relationship with her. Off course you do. You deserve that, at least.

The thing is... Will you have that?

I don't want to be pessimistic, but I want to show you something else.

Expecting an abuser or perpetrator's recognition, validation or apology, could be something that might never happen. Either, because they don't agree on how you see things, and feel no need to apologize; because they don't remember it, so no need to apologize either, or for any other reason.

The thing is that they are beyond your control. They, their thoughts, and actions. And thus, subjecting any of your processes (healing or otherwise), to their behavior, might leave a sense of helplessness to some situations.

You, on the other hand, are completely powerful when it comes to your healing process. You are in charge of your processes, and there you are completely empowered.

I know, it would be so relieving to hear her say sorry, or even to recognize the things she did. I've felt the way you're feeling, for situations far less difficult. But, she might never do it. So, one question to ask would be how can you have a relationship with her, in spite of what she's done, and without any acceptance from her part on her actions? And if you can't yet, then you can't. And if you can't ever, maybe then you just can't. The thing is that's really difficult and extenuating to convince someone about something, and to subject your healing or your peace to their actions. They'll accept or understand or remember whatever it is they need to do it whenever they are ready. And sometimes, you won't be able to make it happen faster.

You mention:

adult_survivor wrote:I am having difficulty finding any compassion for her and her inability to see the truth. ... because I absolutely would believe my kids if they told me I had abused them, even if I had no memories of it.

Then it is ok to not do it right now. You're allowed to be mad, and are allowed to feel distant, you're allowed to feel rage-full for all that you went through because of her actions. You're allowed to feel. And whenever, you're ready, you'll be able to leave those feelings aside, and that power resides totally within you.

From my point of view it is completely valid to not being able to have a relationship with her unless she recognizes or accepts the things she did to you. That's your boundary, you can't at this moment, and that's ok.

She, as a system, might deal with that in different ways. Maybe the only way could be staying away, or maybe she looks for ways to go to therapy. Who knows.

So, what I'm saying is that it's ok to have your boundaries, and let her deal with the consequences of her actions. I'm also saying that, from what I've learnt, it's so difficult to make someone else think or behave in a different way, other than what they believe. However, that doesn't mean your powerless, quite the contrary. You can work within yourself, you can free yourself from needing her validation, whenever you feel ready. There, you're powerful.

Sea

My opinion is that the most important priority you have is taking good care of yourself. You may never ever be able to convince your mother of anything, and there would be nothing you could do about it. What other people believe is not something that we can ever control.

I have given up on trying to convince my own mother of anything. It was a massive hurdle that I leaped, to be honest. But I realized that the feeling of needing my mother to acknowledge anything was something that was seriously holding me back in numerous ways. I realized that my plans to heal and move forward, absolutely could not hinder in any way on my mother acknowledging anything. Otherwise, it would very likely wind up being the case that I could never heal and move forward.

This doesn't mean that certain parts in my system (what a non-multiple such as yourself might experience as conflicting feelings?) don't still have issues on the matter. It just means that I have taken charge and leadership on this matter, in that it does not matter what our mother thinks or says about anything. We will still move forward and heal, with or without her.

My mother also tends to change her stories a lot and deny a lot of things. Occasionally my mother has just flat out made no sense and contradicted herself so blatantly, and then denied that she even just contradicted herself.

Myself and my system have suffered for a very long time, trying to figure out, "Is our mother crazy? Is she a liar? Is she evil?" And on and on and on.

The truth is that we will never know for sure, but we have to just accept that and keep pushing onward.

The unfortunate (but necessary )downside of this acceptance, is that my relationship with my mother will never be very 'deep' or cohesive. We'll never be truly close in many ways. We'll be pleasant with each other and support each other in more direct, literal ways when we can, but emotionally there will always be a huge divide between us. We'll always live in two very different realities, as well.

But that's just the way it is, and just the way it's going to be.

I also take into consideration that my mother and I have grown up in very different times, despite being back-to-back generations. When my mother was my age, I don't think it would have even occurred to her see a therapist, and I highly doubt anyone in her life would have helped her do it, anyway. I have opportunities for healing that my mother never had at my age.

In some ways I think my mother now is doing just what she is capable of at this point in her life. She knows how to sign a check that pays for my therapy session. Financially I am in need, and she feels comfortable helping me that way right now in our lives. Sometimes I think it's the only way she knows how to say "sorry" and help me at the same time. So I try to take it just that way, even if regarding validation she never brings anything to the table.

No, no amount of money will ever be worth more than one validating sentence, but again, my mother has been damaged way longer than I have, and without the resources I have at this age.

Your situation sounds so similar to mine. Loving your mother and wanting to be close, even though she has done horrible things and denies all of it. Struggling to juggle both empathy for her because of what she went through, with the rage you can feel about the denial and the 'lies'.

It really does seriously suck. But if it helps you get there sooner, or helps you at all, please know that your challenge is not really to get your mother to accept reality. It's actually to help yourself accept reality, mainly the reality that your mother is ill, has been your whole life, will probably remain in denial for the rest of her life, and that it's okay for you to feel love, sadness and rage together.

It really does seriously suck. But if it helps you get there sooner, or helps you at all, please know that your challenge is not really to get your mother to accept reality. It's actually to help yourself accept reality, mainly the reality that your mother is ill, has been your whole life, will probably remain in denial for the rest of her life, and that it's okay for you to feel love, sadness and rage together.

this. Well said CopperMoon.

Really sorry you are going through this.

Xo

Thanks Seangel and CopperMoon for your very sweet, kind, and helpful replies, I appreciate it greatly.

I am trying to move on and work on myself. Wrestling with try to understand why she won't believe me although she says she does because she knows I don't lie, and seems to want "proof" from others, and trying to help her host believe, is prompted because we have meetings for an upcoming therapist, where we might eventually meet.

Over the last few months I HAVE come to realize that I cannot have a relationship with her (be in the same room or speak on the telephone with her ever again) unless she accepts reality for what happened, and admits part of her was responsible, even though she doesn't know, and it wasn't my fault
I cannot have a relationship with her if she cannot muster this bare minimum. I wish this were not the case, but it is, and I know my boundaries are not likely to ever change.

i have clearly expressed this is a requirement, and that in addition to that I would need to first meet with her at s therapist. She last expressed through email it was difficult and might "take a while". I told her this was not negotiable, and if she could not, perhaps meeting at a neutral therapist would not be a good idea, as I would just be angry and push her to accept this when she could not.

Now she and father are pushing for the therapist, and I am perplexed and greatly bothered by this as she has completely avoided this topic again (typical mo push on and ignore my needs) so I am mildly hopeful and attempting to keep an open mind, yet very guarded and expecting the worst, and feeling a little.... trampled on by feeling my statement was ignored. So I guess my coming here is asking how to best help her host understand and believe... if her host is present, and if she is even open to listening. I don't know if this even makes any sense.... as I (think) my perspective is coming from a singleton perspective, and I am trying to understand something more...

Thanks all, for your kind and thoughtful responses

Well, you know your boundaries well, and that's really important.

adult_survivor wrote:So I guess my coming here is asking how to best help her host understand and believe... if her host is present, and if she is even open to listening.

I don't know how to help her understand and believe.

I wish she will, though. I'm sending you good communication vibes.

I do believe your requirements are totally reasonable, I hope she agrees to them, and I also hope your father supports your decision as well.

Wish you the best.

Sea