Does your therapist address you individually?

Hi guys
May I prevail upon your two cents again?

It's been a year now since we started therapy.
We were clear about being a group from the start and our therapist in turn didn't beat about the bush about having experiene only with milder forms of dissociation (DP/DR only methinks).

She is calm about switches, manages to tell a couple of us apart although we're highly covert and she is accepting of our aim of co-operation rather than full integration. So yeah. We struck lucky.

Last month she confided that she has difficulty understanding much of what we speak of. That she is only just starting to understand half of what I am telling her. I admire her honesty. But I am also hella frustrated about that. She is now finding it somewhat easier to follow us. This appears to me to be due to us having started to switch like crazy during sessions. So while she finds it a little easier to understand us, I no longer have a clue what's going on. We're usually co-con but when we switch rapidly I do miss bits. (I've been thinking of asking her if I can record our sessions so I can listen back to them. )

I've been wondering about asking my therapist if we can change the following about our sessions and I was wondering if you think that is a reasonable request to make:

While our therapist will talk to whoever is present and knows our names, she addresses us solely as legal name (we all go by legal name with Outsiders though we're starting to announce ourselves to the husband). Anyway, going by legal name wouldn't be a worry if it wasn't for our tendency to speak about each other rather than about ourselves. I was thinking about asking our therapist to call us out on that. Possibly literally. If I start to talk about Mara she usually asks questions such as "what does Mara feel? What does Mara need?"
I was thinking of asking her to address such questions directly. For her to ask to speak to Mara or to just phrase the question as "Mara, what do you need?"

Do you think it is reasonable to push this responsibility on to her? Many of us are really afraid of coming to the Front "as ourselves" rather than pretending to be legal name. I just feel like we each need some help with learning to speak freely in settings where that is a possibility (aka therapy and home).

Does your therapist address you each directly?
Do you think there might be a downside to this I am not considering?

Hope you all have a fantastic weekend!
Odessa

We're addressed as "ya'll", "you guys", and "you", as well as the birth name...which I am legally changing. XD

Sometimes he asks who I am, I guess if I'm not my usual selves.

Sometimes we'd like to be distinguished and speak freely...but we can speak freely regardless of who is being addressed.

I guess the down side is you could compartmentalize more if you become more separate in therapy. It could lead to more dissociation, but on the flip side, the more you define yourselves, the more you can integrate in the long run.

hi there

I think that your T should address each of your states in there own name. Actually it is my understanding that this is basic practice when addressing alters or ego states.

The idea is that by each state having a name you firstly validate each part of you, secondly they are easy to follow!!! I am not surprised that she is getting confused!!!

Have you given her a map of you? So you can introduce who you are to her?

If she talks to each part of you with your name , then she can ask other staes to come forward, what they think etc. Also if you are switching to much and manage to lose your self and need grounding ,, then she can use your legal name to pull you out of the dissociative zone switching can lead to.

Have you discussed ego state thearpy?
We are using fraser's dissociative table technique -
http://www.empty-memories.nl/dis_91/Fraser.pdf
that is a great pdf document. Maybe you could have a read and if it makes sence you could pass the research onto your T?
If she is open about not haviing much experience , she should be open to learning?


I have found that i am able to understand myself more since i have given or been given (by my parts) names. Also, i know it is not for everyone but by defining who they are for example emotional trates, hobbies I have come to understand that different states were once wholes.


I hope that helps....do look up ego state thearpy.

best regards

river

AltCtrlDel wrote:I guess the down side is you could compartmentalize more if you become more separate in therapy.

Good point.
Thankfully compartmentalisation is not a concern. As far as I am concerned that train has left the station decades ago.

We're separate. But we're aware that we live in the same body and have to pretend to be legal name in order to fit into society. Adults all take full responsibility for the body's action though the kids are only just starting to get to grips with personal (individual) responsibility.
We're not looking at full integration, our aim is co-con co-operation.


Thanks for your thoughts and sharing your own experience
Odessa

riverside wrote:Have you given her a map of you? So you can introduce who you are to her?

She has a short description of each of us (http://theindivisibles.tumblr.com/about) and we did a crude timeline for her at the start.

I think she recognises our names at least, though I still reference the ages for the kids (RaeRae the 12 year old, Poe the 4 year old, yada yada) because she hasn't really met any of them but Mara. I think each of us has talked to her at one point or another but just in the flow of conversation - a sentence here or there - before disappearing again. Not introducing themselves at the time. We are just so darn used to hiding.

riverside wrote:If she talks to each part of you with your name , then she can ask other staes to come forward, what they think etc. Also if you are switching to much and manage to lose your self and need grounding ,, then she can use your legal name to pull you out of the dissociative zone switching can lead to.

I'd love her to do that. She often asks whoever is Out stuff that is relevant to somebody else and although we have some co-consciousness I often struggle to dredge up any answers for her. It just feels so pointless to second guess the Others' feelings.

I wonder if it freaks her out that nobody goes by the legal name. Maybe she is secretly daunted that she doesn't have a defined client but rather three adult ones to choose from? Maybe I am just overthinking now

riverside wrote:Have you discussed ego state thearpy?

We were undiagnosed when we started to see our therapist (we took the SCID-D at the Pottergate in the end), so it was ego state therapy we were looking for originally. We knew we were a group but we assumed we weren't "proper DID". Ego state therapy seemed like the closest thing to helping us individually. I do think she is going in that direction alongside psychodynamic whatsits?
I'll have to look at the fraser table PDF in detail when I am not as sleepy - it is quite late over here
Thanks a lot the link Very useful. I'll definitely consider passing that on or at least discussing it with her.

riverside wrote:I have found that i am able to understand myself more since i have given or been given (by my parts) names. Also, i know it is not for everyone but by defining who they are for example emotional trates, hobbies I have come to understand that different states were once wholes.

While I do understand that we are all aspects of what should have been one person, I don't think we've ever been a Whole as such. By age three we were all making our separate experiences. There is no entity here by the name of "legal name", it is just a name we all answer to. Giving out our inside names was something we knew would have dire consequences, so we all got good at pretending to be one and the same.

We're struggling with the legacy of that now. I think our therapist would go along with it if we each made the first step by introducing ourselves at the start of each session and then again as we switch, but I really need her to help us take that step. Most of us are extremely anxious about saying "hello, I am.." But when we do it feels heavenly to not be "lying" about who we each are for once.

It is a shame thing I just so want to beat. When one of us says their internal name it still feels like we're going to get committed any second (though intellectually I know that won't happen).
I am just gonna have to find a way to explain all that to the therapist.

I fear she might have concerns such as AltCtrlDel raised but I guess unless I discuss it openly I'll never know for sure.. yargh.

Thanks again
I might well ask some more once I've read through the PDF

Odessa

hey again,


look forward to your thoughts on the table technique.

I mirror your expereinces to a high degree.

Teatime wrote:

riverside wrote:Have you given her a map of you? So you can introduce who you are to her?

She has a short bio on each of us (http://theindivisibles.tumblr.com/about) and we did a crude timeline for her at the start.

Teatime wrote:

I loved the way you showed yourself in this bio, we did something simular but so so not as well structure. We found the best way to 'show' ourselves as looking for images on the interenet to show our inside image.

Teatime wrote:
I'd love her to do that. She always seems to ask whoever is out about everybody and although we have some co-consciousness I often struggle to dredge up any answers for her. It just feels so pointless to second guess the Others' feelings.

Maybe you could tell her that your whole system dose not have access to other information. You could draw a mind map showing what each of them know about each other, who is aware of whom?

That way you can ask her to keep this in mind when asking others to comment on others and that maybe you need her to get her help you get the others to know them selfs before they try and understand others?


''While I do understand that we are all aspects of what should have been one person, I don't think we've ever been a Whole as such. By age three we were all making our separate experiences. There is no entity here by the name of "legal name", it is just a name we all answer to. Giving out our inside names was something we knew would have dire consequences, so we all got good at pretending to be one and the same. ''


wowza do i get where you are coming - i think it was about 3 that i started to break into others. We never understood our legal name, it never felt like ours. We also changed our name but kept the first because we love our mum and thats who thought of the name.

I had a huge shock when i accidently outted a part of myself to the T - it blow me away. Luckly my T understood.


kind thoughts sending out to you

river

riverside wrote:Maybe you could tell her that your whole system dose not have access to other information. You could draw a mind map showing what each of them know about each other, who is aware of whom?

That way you can ask her to keep this in mind when asking others to comment on others and that maybe you need her to get her help you get the others to know them selfs before they try and understand others?

Thanks river

That last line really struck me. "know them selfs before they try and understand others"

I've been really reluctant to be honest about what I don't know about us.
That said, my memory of our childhood is the worst out of the lot of us and I do point out that what I recount is second-hand, just what the others have shared with me. But I cosntantly feel like I am overstating my memory lapses, like I am brushing the therapist off every time I own up to just how hazy and distant some of the knowledge I have of our past is. Just fact, not emotion. I feel for the Others and I get teary eyed when I think that they protected me all that time. But that's all.

But when it comes to explaining that we each experienced events differently, that we each feel differently, I am never sure if she actually understands how separate we are. I wonder if I am projecting my own denial.

It is our own fault, myself included, because we've fallen into a habit of downplaying how separate we are. I get stuck on explaining over and over again that I understand it is an "experience", I get stuck on post-fixing every sentence with "but I know we add up to a single being.. really" yada yada. Truth is, that knowledge is academic. I don't feel it one bit.

In the confines of therapy at least I'd like to be treated as an individual and stop pretending that I can do any more than ask them or plain guess what life was and is like for my Others. But the thought of being sectioned always sneaks back in there, just another irrational fear to combat if I want to get the most out of therapy.

The table is cool btw - thanks That is getting printed out on Monday and then I am going to get to it with some high lighter (although if Rae gets there first I won't complain.. she takes this type of stuff in so much quicker than me)
Fingers crossed.

Have a fantastic weekend River!
Odessa

Hello again

Your post really spoke to me. What you wrote , almost all of it, is how we feel at points and if not all the time.

I cant get the hang of repeative quote box thing so im going to put what you said in bold

That last line really struck me. "know them selfs before they try and understand others"

You know what, i live by that line!! At some point in my life i found i didnt really 'know' anyone and i realised that i didnt really 'know' myself either. If i cant see my own complexities how on earth can i naviagate around other peoples?


I've been really reluctant to be honest about what I don't know about us.

Not knowing what each other know about other lol what a twister! is really common, thats what our T keeps telling us. I say to her often 'yeah but i know about all these parts of me' she always replies 'yes but do they know about you and others?' Although she has said this almost evey session for a month it shocks me each time. I think it is because each time another part of me is listening that wasnt before.

It is normal to have dissociation between parts because those parts were created to deal with things that other parts could not. So if you think about it, you wouldnt be so fragmented is the parts could share understanding?

But I cosntantly feel like I am overstating my memory lapses, like I am brushing the therapist off every time I own up to just how hazy and distant some of the knowledge I have of our past is.


Me to..it feels like a lie, like im making it all out to be mazzive but its not. Una+ said to me that not being able to validate our own emotions is also really common. I think it is because of the way we all grew up, TRIGGER WARNING - growing up in places that did not valid ourself, in places where fear and 'possible danger' made out systems constantly in flux... no wonder we doubt ourselfs.TRIGGER OVER

Dissociation is the name of the game - that why it is all hazy and distant. Parts of ourselves take on those things and keep them from us so that we survived.


Just fact, not emotion.

O hell yeah, we know this one very well. We have a part of ourself called 'spock'.... if you know start trek you know this part well. The ironic thing is he 'fears' emotion that is why he sticks with logic!! we do laugh.

Depersonalisation was a way of life for us for about 15 years and comes and goes still now. We only started breaking out of this rounteine when we had things in place to make sure we knew that we were now safe and those things were in the past.

But when it comes to explaining that we each experienced events differently, that we each feel differently, I am never sure if she actually understands how separate we are. I wonder if I am projecting my own denial.

Have you said that to her? If she is a half decent T i think she would have picked up on your denial. Its a strong thing not to ? o maybe it is just so strong in me my T couldnt not pick up on it! lol

Have you asked her? You could write the above quote out as a question to her?

It is our own fault, myself included, because we've fallen into a habit of downplaying how separate we are.

Fault in my world = blame. Blame yourself you shouldnt , you have enough on your plate!! it is so hard getting out of the denial spin. We were soused to covering stuff up we found it so hard to be open to our T. When she made staments that made it obvious she could see though what we was saying it helped to break that barrier down.

I get stuck on explaining over and over again that I understand it is an "experience", I get stuck on post-fixing every sentence with "but I know we add up to a single being.. really" yada yada. Truth is, that knowledge is academic. I don't feel it one bit.

Really look up ego state stuff.... i dont think it is just an experience, its part of everyone to have ' parts' its just how far apart each one is from the 'self' that differers? (i think im sure some1 has a more technical explanation) Dont underplay what you are going through. If in the end you think it is something it turns out not to be, its because healing is a journey and we are all only human and we the mess in our heads , we tell ourself we are bound to get stuff messed up!!!

In the confines of therapy at least I'd like to be treated as an individual and stop pretending that I can do any more than ask them or plain guess what life was and is like for my Others.

Do you mean you and in the state that wrote this post being treated as an indivdual? If you do, hell yeah should you be treated as you and no assumption to be made you know what every other part of yourself knows.

So ego state thearpy say's something like this - every person , every person healthy or not is made of of a selection of ego states. For example - if your a dad/mum you have a parent state, all of us have a child state, you could have a work state etc. All of us if we have ecpereienced any kind of trauma can have an ego state that get 'stuck' in time and can then come out when it is triggered by a situation that upsets it. So if soemthign bad happened in chidlhood, the traumatised child will act out.

You could, when you have done some full research on ego state say to your T that just like her not having full 'understanding' of the other states within herself? Whilst she might not have dissciation between parts, her full understanding she probally wont have!! so if an appaently healthy person dossent have full transferance between parts how should you have without help?

Hope that made sence!!


But the thought of being sectioned always sneaks back in there, just another irrational fear to combat if I want to get the most out of therapy.

O yes..... we know this fear completly! Have you asked your T about it? I had massive aatacks of this that mde me shut up about things but like you said unless you are going to hurt yourself or others then why would you? Plus there is loads of other steps before that would happen.

Could you have a chat with the part of yourself that tells you that? You could ask your t to help you talk it though with that part.

The table is cool btw - thanks That is getting printed out on Monday and then I am going to get to it with some high lighter (although if Rae gets there first I won't complain.. she takes this type of stuff in so much quicker than me)
Fingers crossed.


So glad it might help, high light away!!! I hope you show you T , i think it would really be a great tool. Make sure you tell us how it gose. When if your next T appointment if it is ok to ask?



Have a fantastic weekend River!
Odessa

thank you lots we will certanly try

and right back at you

take care

river and comapany

Hi River & Co

Yeah.. the quote feature is a bit of a pain in the backside
Thanks for all your replies, this is really helping me formulate what I actually want to say to our T and how I am going to explain why I am asking for some changes in the first place.

riverside wrote:
But when it comes to explaining that we each experienced events differently, that we each feel differently, I am never sure if she actually understands how separate we are. I wonder if I am projecting my own denial.

Have you said that to her? If she is a half decent T i think she would have picked up on your denial. Its a strong thing not to ? o maybe it is just so strong in me my T couldnt not pick up on it! lol

I don't think she exactly knows what to make of it. I think she has started reading up on DID but when I first came to her she had no reference point whatsoever. Like I say, all she knew of was milder dissociation, not multiplicity.

I am lucky I live only a few hours travel from the Pottergate centre - where I can go every few months to speak to someone who knows about dissociation and has worked with many multiples. That's only an option two or three times a year, so no time to go into much detail about ourselves nevermind our past. We travel there solely to ask DID specific questions relevant to us which have arisen over the past months.

Other than that place DID is pretty much an unknown in the UK. In a way I am better off with someone who can honestly say they don't know rather than going for someone who thinks of themselves an expert. Know what I mean? Goodness protect us from self proclaimed professionals :S
I don't need any cowboys reorganising my mind, nevermind trusting them not to upset the kids in system.

I think it has only recently beome clear to our T in what ways our functioning is impaired. In session she usually got to speak with the adults and we all come across very uniform, calm and rational. Only recently we've volunteered some information about things that happen when the kids are Fronting and are disconnected from adult parts and I think it took her completely aback. Just goes to show how nobody gets the measure of us on first glance. Just a shame we weren't proactive enough to avoid that "first glance" eating up a year of therapy.

riverside wrote:Fault in my world = blame. Blame yourself you shouldnt , you have enough on your plate!! it is so hard getting out of the denial spin. We were soused to covering stuff up we found it so hard to be open to our T. When she made staments that made it obvious she could see though what we was saying it helped to break that barrier down.

thanks.
It is making a big difference that everybody is now starting to feel welcome at home. We've been so deep into hiding all our life a bunch of us are chin deep in denial. Having the husband address as us individuals is helping no end. But this change is practically day old (none of his doing - he has been wanting to get to know us individually for a while now)

riverside wrote:Really look up ego state stuff.... i dont think it is just an experience, its part of everyone to have ' parts' its just how far apart each one is from the 'self' that differers?

That's for sure. I don't believe anybody's personality is truly "unified". Ego states certainly exist in singlets but are nothing as developed as parts/alters. In a way I feel like each member of the group has their own ego states. We each have an office persona, a socialising persona, a wife persona. It's that complexity I find it hard to convey.

I did explain to the T quite a while back that just because I understand something doesn't mean Mara (another part) does. That we each have to understand and make peace with things on our own. That T can tell me 100 times that it is not my fault but unless she convinces Mara not a thing will change. Maybe it is just time to reiterrate that in session.

riverside wrote:In the confines of therapy at least I'd like to be treated as an individual and stop pretending that I can do any more than ask them or plain guess what life was and is like for my Others.

Do you mean you and in the state that wrote this post being treated as an indivdual? If you do, hell yeah should you be treated as you and no assumption to be made you know what every other part of yourself knows.

Yeah That's what I meant. Sod legal name.

Our next session is in a couple of days. I think I have a pretty good idea what I am asking for and how I can help her understand the why and how of it. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes

So much for new year's resolutions

Have a great start to the brand new week!
Odessa (mostly)

Hope things go well at your next session!

I understand that a fair number of T's prefer to "talk through" the host or the main part who usually attends therapy, to the other insiders. In other words, "Mary, can you tell me what Sarah says about the incident at the library?" And after Mary reports what Sarah said, the T might reply, " And I want Sarah to know...blah blah blah." I'm not sure why some Ts prefer this protocol, but it seems some do.