Life

When you are in a crisis, with a lot of unnoticed/uncontrollable switching, influencing, and feeling really spacey and disoriented/sucked inside/confused, would you recommend continuing your public activities? I mean, if we would not continue doing them, we'll be more isolated and kept in a sort of spiral maybe? But if we would, we could make a huge fool out of myself which would definitely not help and maybe make sure we wont have the courage to go back to that activity at all anymore.

A common theme when you write here is you feeling embarrassed at your actions. I think for us the best thing is to remove the embarrasment and shame and then we are able to better go on with our life and do what we want and are able to at any given moment. Do you have a T you can talk to about the feelings of shame that the dissociation brings up for you? Thinking of you

TheCollective wrote:When you are in a crisis, with a lot of unnoticed/uncontrollable switching, influencing, and feeling really spacey and disoriented/sucked inside/confused, would you recommend continuing your public activities? I mean, if we would not continue doing them, we'll be more isolated and kept in a sort of spiral maybe? But if we would, we could make a huge fool out of myself which would definitely not help and maybe make sure we wont have the courage to go back to that activity at all anymore.

I think it really depends on the person, and how they deal with both being alone and solitary and how they deal with public activities. Sometimes, being left alone with one's thoughts can be the worst possible thing for them, causing them to lose their grasp on the outside world and focus only on what goes on in their head. However, being forced to live a normal life in public can be just as stressful. I think that when in crisis, you should try to think about which one has been worse for you in the past, and try to use that information to make a healthy balance of both. It's easier to learn techniques to deal with your crisis when alone, with less outside influences. However, if you only learn how to deal with things without being immersed in the world, you won't know what to do when you go back into it. Don't worry about making a fool out of yourself; that's life. It's how you learn. Good luck with everything!

As far as we're concerned, when in crisis, it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you stay SAFE. If that means isolation do it, if it means getting into public situations to avoid isolation then do it. But the important thing is to be SAFE.

My SO and I have several different safety plans in our pockets for different situations that arise, both for our inner world and the real world. It makes a big difference for me to have these plans there. Knowing triggers and stressors is a necessity in our lives. When we decided to stop being reactive and start being proactive some of the little things immediately became less intrusive, allowing us to focus on some bigger ticket items.

Thanks for letting us share our thoughts

Trigger warning for Shame. Very long posts. I am so very sorry or dumping this here. Thanks to anyone who even reads this and I hope someone can help us. I don't even want to post it but I don't want all this effort to be for nothing, and I really need help. Feel free to reply to either post and no matter how basic, just say it cause I don't think I'm understanding this properly.
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Yes. I agree LifeLongThing. It is about shame. I am very ashamed.
I simply don't feel like I belong in society cause all of society made me feel so unwanted for such a long time. We're from a very shaming family who used only shame and fear to raise and criticize us and to feel better than other people, we were bullied by an entire school for 5-8 years, and I had more than some unfortunate, dramatic 'alter' accidents that really shamed me. I am also still at risk to have more of these accidents.
I feel like I am too ugly to be around people, too weird, too stupid, that my aura disrupts the flow of the room and like my damaged being repulses other people. Social situations like these, group-settings, are definitely the hardest thing for me.

I can't rely on my therapist. She's retiring and it's like my mind shuts down when we're in there. This is shame, even (especially!) in her office. I tried for two years to get rid of it. I think there must be something wrong with me because I don't succeed and I can feel t's puzzled frustration and boredom too (or maybe it's all a projection) which doesn't make it better.. I am ashamed for having alters/being an alter, and for what they are saying and feeling, ashamed for feeling ashamed, ashamed of not being able to let go of it, shame is the biggest problem in our system right now, at least from my perspective.

How can I stop being ashamed for overtly being a very tough male, while wearing dresses and acting like scared children too? How can one not care/worry about losing their skills when you need them most? It just repulses me. I am such a freak.
How can you stop noticing other people's feelings? The antennae were made for this. All my life I grew up constantly having to use these antennae to navigate my world and now the only thing they do is making it so much harder for me. I can't even deal with so much input.

That's not to say I didn't go. We went. It was, well pretty uncomfortable but I guess she made it through. I want it to stop taking so much energy from me, it's not even fun while it should be. It's just exhausting, while to normal humans it's basically relaxing.
I feel like I should run away from this for everyone's sake. People will be relying on my cooperation and I don't think they should. I want to make progress, I can't keep running cause the body's clock keeps ticking, but I don't know how to make this progress. I don't want to bother people with my problems/presence, not even here that's why this is taking me more than 3 hours.

So how did you get rid of this nasty nasty toxic shame? We read the things about this shame but somehow it just doesn't stick to me.

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You should have seen the far too positive reaction that Jessica almost wrote (but I was too ashamed of actually posting it) 2 days ago. I'm ashamed and afraid of being positive. Now I'm back to hiding from the world again and I have no clue how she can be so positive and on top of it. I don't even understand or remember the things she wrote. It's like she barely considers our existence and like she's barely bothered by any of this. So many similar things but yet a completely different and foreign attitude to me. And this is the alter that's closest to me. I am jealous of her progress? Maybe this means I'm becoming obsolete. Even my own alters are passing me by. All of it just really scares me. It's not cool to be finding out that I'm just an alter who holds on to trauma and it's not cool that by doing so, I'm keeping us from making progress. I wish I could just stop being here.

I saved it though. So here. This was my entry, Now Jessica's, our 'facade' and (former?) host.
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"Of course I'm embarrassed. I don't want to be but it's really good that I recognize the shame by now. At the start of all this I didn't even have a clue.
No I don't have a t. I guess I do still have her but I don't care about t's anymore.

Yes social situations, peer contact, we were immensely bullied at school for years. So that's difficult. Being isolated isn't necessarily safe and it wont get me out of that spiral, but being among people isn't safe either. We have always isolated and it's totally not helping me. I have to learn to be safe inside myself instead of hiding my life away. So I did go and it helped us out of this spiral for a bit.

I'm starting to see that this is the present and I can do something about bullies now cause I'm not a child anymore and they do not have that power over me anymore. It's just hard that we have these major receptors to sense other people. So even normal signs that might imply rejection or dismissal or disapproval etc might trigger us. Even though it really doesn't matter nowadays whether this person rejects me or not. I have to stop thinking that 'they' are a group and I'm invading their group. Instead it should become a new idea that I can be part of this group too. I am allowed to be a person and have a life and I am allowed to stick with the people that do like me, instead of being triggered to the extent that 'their' entire group becomes a bully. I need to learn to center on my own being. To stop constantly being tuned into every single person present, instead of being tuned into me. I am allowed to take up space and do my thing. I am allowed to be me. I don't want our stupid past to haunt me like that anymore. At first I didn't even realize that it did.

The DID person that I recently met, and seeing how they cope and thrive, that really opened my eyes. It's one of the most healing things that happened in a long time. It means I don't have to let my self get crippled by shame and fear for being discovered as a 'freak' cause we're not a freak, and I don't have a giant board on my forehead that says kick us we're a 4 headed alien. It means I'm not so severely damaged that I have to stay away from the world and it means that I can still be a great person.

So by 'becoming proactive' you mean anticipating on certain things? Which in this case would be
knowing in advance that I might get some weird looks and preparing for what that does to us?
Or tips anyone ?"
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She just feels like my feelings aren't real and I feel the same about hers.

It's lovely you were able to share this much. Thank you

I simply don't feel like I belong in society cause all of society made me feel so unwanted for such a long time. We're from a very shaming family who used only shame and fear to raise and criticize us and to feel better than other people, we were bullied by an entire school for 5-8 years, and I had more than some unfortunate, dramatic 'alter' accidents that really shamed me.

I'm sorry you experienced that, you didn't deserve to be treated that way at all.

I am also still at risk to have more of these accidents.

How so? Are you still at risk for experiencing abuse or are you at risk for experiencing shame?

I can't rely on my therapist. She's retiring and it's like my mind shuts down when we're in there.

I'm sorry to hear this. Has she referred you to someone new? Would you like her to?

How can you stop noticing other people's feelings? The antennae were made for this. All my life I grew up constantly having to use these antennae to navigate my world and now the only thing they do is making it so much harder for me. I can't even deal with so much input.

It's just hard that we have these major receptors to sense other people. So even normal signs that might imply rejection or dismissal or disapproval etc might trigger us. Even though it really doesn't matter nowadays whether this person rejects me or not. I have to stop thinking that 'they' are a group and I'm invading their group.

I also very much have the antennaes that make me feel overloaded with navigating everything. The thing is, these antennaes tend to pick up our own feelings about ourselves as well. We think it's everyone else's thoughts, but rarely do we see the world objectively. Hardly anyone does, really. Are you sure this isn't happening for you to? And that's not to say that no one is judging because some people will judge, that is life, but the sheer amount of it? I've found people hardly find me as interesting as I tend to think. People tend to pay a lot more attention to themselves than others in social settings. Most aren't completely comfortable with themselves and focus on that.

So how did you get rid of this nasty nasty toxic shame? We read the things about this shame but somehow it just doesn't stick to me.

Has your therapist ever given you "homework" to do regarding this?

I don't want to be but it's really good that I recognize the shame by now. At the start of all this I didn't even have a clue.

That is great progress

and it means that I can still be a great person.

You definitely can And you are.

Which in this case would be
knowing in advance that I might get some weird looks and preparing for what that does to us?

Working on self acceptance can very much help with this. I hope you're able to find a way to work on that that works for you.

You deserve peace from all the shame.
You did great writing so much here

moks wrote:As far as we're concerned, when in crisis, it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you stay SAFE. If that means isolation do it, if it means getting into public situations to avoid isolation then do it. But the important thing is to be SAFE.

This is how I live life too...

I, too, feel shame and embarrassment sometimes....you are not alone.

Shame was what defined us for most of our lives. And guilt and fear, but especially shame. I no longer hate myself!!! It is possible. You have to stop judging yourself - easier said than done, so break it down into three steps.

1. notice every time you judge yourself - even small things like 'right'/'wrong', 'should', 'can't', 'normal', etc, and of course the obvious ones like 'stupid', 'freak', 'repulsive', etc.

this takes a lot of daily practise, like a few months before it's a habit. Chances are that 99% of your thoughts are judgmental, so this will be a full time job, just like hating yourself is.

2. stop the judging as soon as you notice it.

3. don't judge in the first place

validate your feelings; remind yourself that you are just as worthy as anybody else, that nobody's perfect. you are who you are, and that is OK, and you're doing your best. You are a good person.

These words are meaningless/won't reach you now, I'm sure, but when you begin to stop those automatic thoughts/judgments that shot them down you will begin to be able to receive them.

good luck. Self-hatred is such a tortured existence to survive. You deserve to heal.

I'm very grateful for all your replies.
I've tried for 2 days to reply to everyone. I think it's too negative, too long, I don't want to bother you nice people at all. I come across as someone who's opposed to taking advice and it really angers me cause I do desperately want to know what to do.
Our t has given us the homework Niva suggested. At first I wasn't even aware that I was mocking us so much. I told my t for 2 years that it wasn't that bad. I'm not sure if becoming aware of it now is helping. I don't know how to stop mocking myself genuinely, instead of just ignoring it by default again. I don't mean to mock any of the alters or make them insecure too. I try to stop it, but it's just really the way I feel about myself. I forget about trying to stop it or bending it to more positive thoughts so often.
It's just that, my self image becomes this strange mix of our feminine body, combined with a masculine self image/attitude and childlike behavior at times, and sometimes I literally feel like a 4 headed alien. That is hard enough and I'm just, out. If then I notice that I'm losing control to an 8 year old or a 3 year old, can't even think, talk or behave properly anymore, can't for the life of me snap out of it even though I'm fully aware of it, or am co-present with females, it just makes it so much worse. I just want to be ok with myself. How can someone be ok with such contradicting information?

I think lots of strange changes are happening to this entire system. Chris and myself are blended/integrating, Rita woke up after years of hiding/'being retired', Jessica is starting to host a lot again. Then the therapist retiring/other conflicts I've been having with her, the external stress, the out of control drug and alcohol abuse, all of it at once. I would vote for Jes taking over completely, it's just that she doesn't want to cause she doesn't want to be here, nobody will, and I'm scared that if she would take over completely that she would run away from here. That's happened before and was the reason why she was replaced by me. She did change a lot but still doesn't want to be here. Me taking over was initially a crisis intervention but then it just stayed that way for about 5 years now. I feel responsible for the entire system and everything that's going on, cause you know, someone has to do it, and it's wearing me out.
I'm thinking that being blended with Chris rather permanently (or so it seems), is making all of these self hatred feelings much stronger since he was made for the bullies and I don't know how to deal with this. I can't tell whose feelings they are, aside from knowing that they weren't here/mine before, but now they are. Changing like this is scary enough. I don't even know what's happening here.

Maybe it's normal for 'hosts' to be worn out like this. Rita said that I would get overwhelmed. I was just too pigheaded to listen and she disappeared because of that among other things. I wanted everything at once, all the awareness I could get, hosting, being the negotiator/leading group meetings, being inside and outside protector, figuring out and healing the system (which isn't exactly working cause I still don't know much about how/why all of this is happening). I think I could use some rest. It's just that nobody wants/is able to do this life. So I keep coming out to fix it cause well it's my job, and we can't control switching. It's like nobody even cares. And it's like my being here is helping them not care cause I fix it anyway.
I don't know how much sense this makes, our system keeps eluding me. I don't know why Rita woke up. I mean, I've been begging her for it for years, but why now? She wont talk to anyone.
I don't know why Chris and I are the way we are, or what we are.
It would be nice if someone had an objective take on the way our system functions right now. Thanks for listening to my rant. Thanks for all the replies and help. I guess I have to just step back and try not to give in to all the crap. I don't know how much longer until something really goes wrong though.