Autism & DID

I have been talking with someone by PM about this subject and thought it would be good to post on the open forum. This has a general trigger warning due to the topic at hand.

I've also noticed that some that have other issues such as autism that cause input to be harder to process seem to be more prone to splitting, making sense due to making the world being more "traumatic" in general. This isn't true for everyone with autism though, and not everyone with co-morbid DID and autism either, of course! (This is not at all scientific though so take it with a huge bag of salt, naturally).

I've worked with kids with autism and asperger's and honestly, the overloads some of them go through would definitely be considered traumatic to a neurotypical person. As such, I've thought about the higher risk of developing DID and/or developing more alters due to this.

What are your thoughts on this?

(I would like to very clearly state here that this does not in any way mean that those with autism and DID have never gone through trauma and abuse that could warrant DID in itself. Everyone has their own life history and their own problems, and this together can create DID in anyone.)

I think that's a really interesting theory, and it makes sense.

I don't think I have autism, but I do have times when external stimuli is overwhelming and have alters who have difficulty with making eye contact/talking/being touched, and I know that those issues with handling that kind of input make things more traumatic for me/us. I can only imagine how much harder it would be for someone who is autistic.

Does anyone know of any statistics on the percentage of people with autism who also have DID versus the non-autistic population?

Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of knowledge on the subject, but I'll be following this conversation with interest. Thank you for starting it!

lifelongthing wrote:I've worked with kids with autism and asperger's and honestly, the overloads some of them go through would definitely be considered traumatic to a neurotypical person. As such, I've thought about the higher risk of developing DID and/or developing more alters due to this.)

Hi lifelongthing,

I wondered if if would be possible to PM you about this. I have a child with suspected aspergers.... Could do with some advice....

Blu.

Absolutely you can Blu I will Pm back when I can

Will write more later AlteredArt as I AM on my phone

Thank you I will.

No pressure to PM back, just when you can.

Blu.

Hello - very triggering topic for me but I wanted to mention that I have a child with Asperger's and can try to answer questions also via pm.
xxoo

and I know that those issues with handling that kind of input make things more traumatic for me/us. I can only imagine how much harder it would be for someone who is autistic.

Exactly.

Does anyone know of any statistics on the percentage of people with autism who also have DID versus the non-autistic population?

As far as I know there's no really real static for how many people even have DID so I doubt there's a statistic saying anything like that. There isn't even a consensus of how many there are with DID (though some experts to theorize, of course) It would be very interesting to see though. Maybe someone else has heard about it

Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of knowledge on the subject, but I'll be following this conversation with interest. Thank you for starting it!

Thank you for answering I'm glad you like the thread

Thank you I will.

No pressure to PM back, just when you can.

I will be looking forward to hearing from you

Hello - very triggering topic for me but I wanted to mention that I have a child with Asperger's and can try to answer questions also via pm.

I'm sorry it's triggering to you. Thinking of you, my friend.

Journalgirl wrote:Hello - very triggering topic for me but I wanted to mention that I have a child with Asperger's and can try to answer questions also via pm.
xxoo

That's very kind of you i will also PM

Much appreciate you sayin that; particularly as the thread is triggering for you.

Blu. x

***Trigger
Warning***

us
not
diagnosed

including
shay

but
wanted
say
stuff
about
different
input


*deep
breath*



lots of stuff can overload for shay

there sensory overload

communication overload

pretty much everything can overload

and when there overload, there can be stress and sometime even trauma shay think




shay remember stuff

no one know shay remember

but shay do



shay remember early times when further separation developing (before names, and before probably even being fully developed alters, and before of course knowing what all going on exactly)

shay, or the part that further separated and developed into shay, would be out, do something, shay not able read faces, it go wrong, people get upset, shay get pushed back

cassie would be out, do something, learn from shay mistakes, learn how read faces better, learn what face watch out for, learn the limit, people not get as upset, cassie allowed stay out

brain constantly watching, constantly trying learn, constantly recognizing what "normal" and what "not", and try to mimic

those that able mimic well allowed stay out more- like cassandra or cassie or rain

those that not able mimic as well get pushed back for fear of drawing bad attention or something- like shay or ray or keith

in early times brain decide who out front and who not- all about triggers, all about how to survive, all about how to not cause trouble or get in trouble or cause negative reactions from others etc.

shay get overwhelmed or overloaded, shay get upset, shay express upsetness, usually cause people to misunderstand or get upset in return, so brain make shay stay back

cassie learns from shay, and learn mimic and adapt better, quicker, learn how block stuff out to not be overloaded or as overloaded as often, and not cause people misunderstand or get upset as often as shay, so brain let cassie stay out front





getting off main topic

will try to use example to help explain what originally talking about with overload and stress and trauma


**Trigger Warning**

us told keep eye contact when young. got in trouble when not keep eye contact if someone talking to us.

shay not like eye contact. too much input. see so much in eyes and mind take many pictures of face and so much detail take in all once and emotions on face can be hard to read and confusing.

but us get in trouble if not keep eye contact.

shay be out. not keep eye contact. get in trouble. shay wonder what wrong with shay. shay wish only could express and explain but not able find words and often not able find voice. and rule adamant anyway- must keep eye contact. no exceptions. experience could be bit traumatizing. especially if happen over and over.

cassie be out. keep eye contact but dissociate to help with overload. only look at eyes and block out everything else. and focus more on words being said to help block out sight input. cassie not get in trouble. experience have no chance of being traumatizing.

**End Trigger Warning**


try another example.


**Maybe Trigger Warning**

people and family like hugs.

shay only ever like hugs from mom, and only sometimes.

people always ask things like "what wrong with you? it's just a hug". family ask similar things. and family hug anyway, whether protest or say not care for one or not.

sensory overload. shay get upset. shay not hug back, or not hug "enthusiastically", or go quiet, or not show or express affection like other person doing, and shay get questioned, sometimes get in trouble, or get guilt tripped, or something.


cassie likes hugs but only when she wants to hug. doesn't like being hugged if it surprise or if not in mood for one.

so able tolerate family hugs more than shay.

cassie not get questioned or in trouble or guilt tripped or anything.

**End Maybe Trigger Warning**


and often blank or luna triggered out for things us not like.

especially with shay.

because blank and luna do anything, go along with anything, follow anything anyone want, silently and obediently, because that basically what asked of us from dad lots times.

blank and luna help us not get in trouble or cause negative reaction from dad. luna learn- go along with/tolerate, keep quiet, it will pass, then forget. blank learn- follow whatever anyone want, be obedient, be and do whatever anyone want, be blank to please others like dad.

blank and luna around lot more than others remember in childhood.

same with shay.

shay out and around lot more in childhood before cassie and cassandra started really learning how adapt and mimic well and how act "normal"- or at least normal enough not get as bullied or teased or in trouble or anything.





having hard time dealing with input from sounds, lights, people, touch, etc. can make one feel very frustrated, feel hate for self, feel very alone.

if not in understanding or safe or caring environment, can be traumatizing shay believe.

because shay think that what happened with us (among other things course).

there things that happen/ed that make shay feel very hurt, or confused, or frustrated, or angry, or something, and can be traumatizing, but others not see same way and probably not traumatized by same things. all because otherwise know how read faces better, or not have sensory overload, or not get as overwhelmed by things, or know how understand what others say better, or something.





now that free be ourselves and not have fear negative reactions or punishment- least not as much, others in system realizing have lot more in common with shay than first realize. now that there no need to appear normal as possible or to meet certain standards or to walk on eggshells, others realizing and remembering! that have always had more in common with shay than realize. others just able hide it better when needed than shay ever could....






~s
h
a
y~

Your theory does make sense!

Without a doubt those with autism encounter far more difficulties than a regular person. Many of them realize they are different and many know they are in social isolation without the ability to rectify (fix) it and that is exceptionally painful for them.

Trauma is present in nearly all mental illnesses and differences. A while ago I came up with what I call the theory of traumatic dissociation. One of my theories in it based on observations and personal experiences; is that if one has a mental difference, even if it does not by itself cause pain or fear, that difference will bring violent opposition from others and that will be a source of pain. Also, a theory that many psychologists have proposed and I agree with is that trauma, by itself causes mental illness, like DID. The more sever the trauma and the earlier in life it occurs, the more sever the mental illness will be. Social isolation heightens the pain and prevents one from 'making peace' with the memories. This keeps them encapsulated and lucid in the subconscious, thus giving them the ability to influence and control waking thought.

I do believe that some with autism have it from abuse in the first place, but even if none have it from that (and not all do by any means) autism in itself is very painful for those who have it. This is why in my opinion those with autism should never be punished for any of the symptoms they display and that they should be constantly stimulated by warm, kind and friendly people. And of course "weird" interests should be respected and not seen as an issue.



Interestingly your post reminds me of work done by psychoanalyst Alice Miller. Her work is an excellent read. I highly recommended you read it. Most of it doesn't have to do with autism, (some does) but there is good info on trauma and early childhood experiences.

Good Luck!