System structure--not DID? **Trigger warning for roles**

While attempting to write up something for a T, I got this explanation from inside:

***Trigger warning for structured roles and doubt***


"There are rooms. The feelings are locked into them, contained but not suffocated. If you go into that room, it’s all that’s there. If you walk in, there are highlighted sections of history. Nothing is erased, but you can only really access the relevant parts. Everything is controlled by the emotion of the room. Only its particular correlations can be related to.

If you take out a wall, or if you try to blend the contents, then there is nothing that can be successfully carried out. It effects the body. The way light reflects off of objects, the way the sounds enter the mind. Two rooms together struggle to interpret it, to piece it up inside. It can’t be done. It has to stay separated. This is how it has always been and has to stay. You can’t change that. Things are very particular here. The system has to stay in place, has to be accepted, and has to be understood. This is simply a coordination problem. It can be easily fixed.

If you view the system itself as a whole, all concerns are answered. It’s only from the perspective of a single room that understanding breaks down. Perhaps one flaw in the design, but not a crippling one. There’s your answer."



Now I'm really confused by this only because it doesn't look like DID. I know that it is a very subjective thing, and there's tons of ways we can doubt it and analyse it, but the explanation I was given--while coming entirely from some place inside that I can't say is "me"--describes it only about emotions, but not identities. And I have had a hard time relating to that idea of identities, with names/histories/etc. because everyone that speaks/comes out insists they are me (by name/history), just different versions/dispositions. Almost all emotionally based. And while there's no real relation or connection amongst one another to say "whole", there is this feeling that it isn't really the full-formed identity distinction.

I did read the stuff here on structural dissociation, about EP's and ANP's, and I guess if this is the case, then I'm really only dealing with EP's as the one ANP? I'm having a hard time just because there doesn't seem to be a lot on either EP's or fragments and how they work, as opposed to full-formed alters (if that's even the right way of saying it, and if I'm completely mistaken on this explanation I apologize and would love a better explanation). I have no doubt that I'm dealing with some kind of dissociation--I just don't know what that kind is and wish I could understand it better.


As a side note that may or may not be related: I had my first real session yesterday and talked a bit about the issues some of the "others" (whoever/whatever they turn out to be) feel, and directly after the session I suddenly felt really nauseous and ended up getting sick in the bathroom. It's strange, because the issues aren't anything new/overwhelming when I think/write about them, but saying it out loud had a very strong and physical effect.

**trigger warning for defined roles**

You might have DID, you might not. Nothing in this tells me that you don't - but it doesn't say that definitely 100% do either. Only a professional could see that. Have you tried reading about DID-like DD-NOS instead? That would be where there is one ANP and several EP's, instead of several ANP's. It might resonate better for you if that is what you are experiencing

Best of luck in figuring this out

Thank you, I should have thought about DD-NOS and did some searching before posting this, but I guess I wanted some verification that I wasn't totally off in left-field, haha. I appreciate your response and will definitely be digging in more on that side of things, because I think it does resonate a little more closely to my own experience.

I have a really good T right now that seems open to exploring anything that comes up. I probably should be relying more on his insight, but I want to feel like I'm contributing as well with my own understanding instead of just relying on him to put it together for me. Either way, though, he suggested I have a full medical check up as soon as possible to eliminate any physical causes so we can get down to work, so I expect we'll be exploring everything soon enough.

Thanks again.

(I'm very fuzzy at the moment, so I hope this makes sense).

The main criteria for DID is that you have at least 2 ANPs, and that at least one or two alters (can't remember which) have to lose time/not remember stuff when other alters are "out". This can be any alter, doesn't have to be the host (which seems to be you).

For example: I'm an ANP, I'm the host (the host is, if I remember correctly, always an ANP because they're the ones who are supposed to appear as "normal" as possible anyway). Another ANP in my system is Rain, she's a caretaker. She looks after the littles, but she's not an EP. She's very logical, always keeps a clear head, rather emotionless (it affects clear thinking, she says), and she's capable of handling everyday life if needed.

From the sounds of how this information was given, the voice that was informing you on the inside could either be an ANP that manages the system as a whole, or it could be an Internalized Self Helper. (You can read more about both in the resource websites given on the DDNOS/DID Resources thread. I can't remember if we gave it to you, so here it is possibly again: http://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic100829.html

So, you could have two ANP's, yourself, and this informative voice, or you could have one ANP that you know of, yourself, and one ISH, the voice. (That you know of so far).

It might take some time to really figure out if you have DDNOS or DID. I started out with 5 alters including myself, and in the past 2 years, I'm now up to a total of 17 (including myself). Wait- possibly 18 (we don't know if the new cat is a true alter or just an inside "pet" yet).


The other criteria is that one or two alters have to lose time/not remember stuff that happens when another alter is out. This is mainly because if you do not lose time at all, it's usually a sign of fragments, not fully-formed alters, and that's DDNOS. I do not agree with this, personally. If someone matches all the symptoms of DID, yet does not lose time, possibly due to an extremely co-conscious system, then they should still be diagnosed with DID. It makes no sense to diagnose someone with DDNOS if they only match on symptom, and all their other symptoms match DID. But that's my view on it.
ANYWAY, the other criteria does not have to include the host, it can be any alter.
For example: I rarely lose time. When I do, it's usually not that noticeable. Minutes, seconds, rarely anything more. However, other alters do lose time. Say that a Main Group alter of mine, Kat, is out. If a Secondary Group alter comes out after Kat, say Damone, he won't remember what happened while Kat was out. I'll remember overall what happened when both are out (I don't know yet if this is because we're so co-conscious as a system, or if it's because my system as a type of "auto-memory gap-refill", where if we're out, we get fed memories, basically, to help us not seem as weird or dysfunctional to other people. Especially if they start asking questions about something that an alter wasn't around for- their memory will auto-fill that gap so that they can answer correctly. It's weird, sometimes annoying, but also rather helpful). Damone will get "fed" memories when he comes out so that he will know overall what happened as well, but they're still not his memories and they're usually blurry and don't hold much detail (because he wasn't the one experiencing them). I hope that all made sense.


Just a note, too: Alters don't always have to have different names and histories. Sometimes, they just go by the birth name, even inside, and sometimes they just have numbers attached (like "Cassandra 1", "Cassandra 2", etc), stuff like that. And it's actually common for alters to not have their own histories, but to have basically the same history as the host does, just slightly different versions.


However, based on what you've said, I would definitely look more into DDNOS-1. It's basically DID, but with fragments, not full-formed alters. (DDNOS information can also be found on the resource websites in the resource thread. I think there's more about it in the second website listed, though).

The physical effects you feel are normal for talking about your system and what you could possibly have (DDNOS or DID). Nausea is the most common I've read about aside from headaches. Perhaps you could talk to your T about this, and maybe you could have him talk, and have you write responses? Or at least right a summary response, and then try to fill it out verbally, that way you're not talking as much?

Anyway, short story long: Look into DDNOS-1, you're not in left field, and I hope the therapy sessions get better for you (your T sounds good so far, too).

-Cassandra

Thank you so much for the detailed explanation, Cassandra. Even when fuzzy, you have a knack for making some of the more complicated aspects accessible to those of us who are still figuring things out, and I really appreciate all of your help here.

It makes no sense to diagnose someone with DDNOS if they only match on symptom, and all their other symptoms match DID. But that's my view on it.

Even though I'm iffy on DID for myself, and not losing time does add to that, I do agree with you. If I felt like I related to DID on everything but time-loss, then I'd feel this is somewhat of an unfair technicality.

Damone will get "fed" memories when he comes out so that he will know overall what happened as well, but they're still not his memories and they're usually blurry and don't hold much detail (because he wasn't the one experiencing them). I hope that all made sense.

I can relate to this, though it may not be the same thing but sort of similar. There have been times when someone is out and there's a fuzzy history that seems "fed", as you said, like they were told about it second-hand rather than lived through it themselves. Mostly just general summaries of what happened, instead of a detailed experience. And the first few moments of a switch there's a kind of confusion and disorientation about being in a certain place/time, but it evens out as that all filters in, even if there's an obvious separation of "I know this happened" versus "I did this/was there". It's really lame, but I sort of picture a Neo learning kung-fun in the Matrix kind of thing, when he's being given all the knowledge in a kind of data-dump (except significantly less detailed).

Just a note, too: Alters don't always have to have different names and histories. Sometimes, they just go by the birth name, even inside, and sometimes they just have numbers attached (like "Cassandra 1", "Cassandra 2", etc), stuff like that. And it's actually common for alters to not have their own histories, but to have basically the same history as the host does, just slightly different versions.

This is comforting to hear, even if it turns out I'm not in that boat. I worry that in trying to understand myself, I end up pushing for something that isn't there just to make it more "real". There are instances where certain parts can relate to other names (Destiny is one. Even though she knows that isn't really her name, she does like it as a nickname, and another responded favourably when he was called "Cain" as a joke), but overall I haven't had the experience of someone affirming that their name is X and they're this age, and this appearance, and have these different experiences. And in experimenting with attributing those things to them, or even just asking inside about it, it honestly does feel "wrong", and I need to trust that feeling regardless of anything else I discover along the way.

The physical effects you feel are normal for talking about your system and what you could possibly have (DDNOS or DID). Nausea is the most common I've read about aside from headaches. Perhaps you could talk to your T about this, and maybe you could have him talk, and have you write responses? Or at least right a summary response, and then try to fill it out verbally, that way you're not talking as much?

I think he picked up on the fact that I have a harder time speaking than I do writing about certain things (even I noticed that my voice started to sort of crack and I was physically shaking, despite not feeling anything particular at the time), and he's asked that I keep a detailed log about everything that's going on for him to read. So I'll definitely be mentioning that event, and the idea of summary in writing and filling it out verbally is a really good idea that I'll probably try out, as well, thank you.

I know it is important to have something we can wrap our minds around and a diagnosis can help give us structure...but I hope that whatever your diagnosis, you might still come here for support simply because the compartmentalized memories/feelings you describe is still dissociative... My son's system likens themselves as the units in a ice cube tray (separate/individual but can 'share' if you keep pouring water in...) They have been upset/afraid of breaking down the walls between them...your message seemed like a 'rule' that was established a long time ago and for self-preservation...and to keep those memories/etc protected and isolated. just a thought.

Anyway..I guess what I wanted to say is that whether you are diagnosable as DID - I am glad you are able to come here to 'think out loud'. I am non-DID and still have my own spectrum of 'identity' issues that coming here has helped me with.

I hope that whatever your diagnosis, you might still come here for support simply because the compartmentalized memories/feelings you describe is still dissociative

I think I'll stay hanging around here for awhile, regardless of anything that happens by way of diagnosis or none. The people here are some of the most intelligent, knowledgeable, and helpful individuals I've seen in one forum, and even if I end up on the opposite end of the dissociative spectrum from DID, I know that there's still help and support to be found here.

your message seemed like a 'rule' that was established a long time ago and for self-preservation...and to keep those memories/etc protected and isolated. just a thought.

Throughout the rest of the message the terms "rule" and "regulations" were used a few times, and I think you're right. I'm going to work on sussing out the "rule book" that might be there and maybe that'll be helpful in clearing up the fuzzy/unsure communication going on inside.

I am non-DID and still have my own spectrum of 'identity' issues that coming here has helped me with.

I'm glad you've found support here too! I think there's a lot people can relate to, regardless of any specific, diagnosable concerns. Especially when DID can encompass a range of other issues, like anxiety/depression/self-doubt/etc. I figure if one person is talking about methods of calming down an upset alter, another "singleton" can take a lot of those methods for self-talk and coping methods as well. This is definitely a sort of all-inclusive place to learn.

Thank you for your response. I concur with all you said!