13...not our lucky number

So...I've been away for awhile..miss you guys! Part of it is our newest alter. I'm not sure, yet, how to spell her name but it sounds like vitell. She is the one that the Littles have drawn pictures of...always *trigger warning - monsters and violence** just her red mean eyes...the one that Click has been sensing and fearing for weeks....the one that inspires my son to think homicidal thoughts.

She has wounded and hurt severely 2 inside members - one at least 3-4 times. They are keeping her chained to a tree in the woods so that she can't get inside the house and 3 littles dont know about her; but she is apparently the twins' mother and it's a long story.... but what concerns me most (she says she's too smart to kill anyone right now, she needs the body out of jail in order to punish/hurt as many people as possible)

but other than that....it's Click's reaction. He is nonverbal/blind/nonhuman and scared out of his mind. When he is out - and it concerns her - he is terrified for my safety. Terrified of her. There is no word but 'desperate' to describe how he clings to me or conveys his fear. He wants me to stay in the sunlight and cannot say anything else though he feels so passionately about this - he has started to refer to me as 'mom' but only in this close-mouth sound...

I tell him I will be safe; I wont visit with her unless it is within safe bounds...and I think last night, while trying to comfort him, he sensed her presence in the room with us. What is different in my son's system, is they can actively (hallucinate?) while one is out they can see another in the room at times. And when Click first came to us - he actually was violent and the hallucination of him stabbed my son in the chest and my son reacted as if it were real. So..when Click acted like she was 'here' - I knew it would be real to him so I called Alex to bring him back inside and asked Alex to check on her whereabouts as she has said that it is only a matter of time before someone slips up and she is able to come out. The T did ask if we could stop chaining her like an animal and move her into a safe (room) instead but Alex said she is an animal and will be treated as such...

She is wolf-like... she says her purpose is to hurt. I have no idea how to connect with her. She has really set the system back; everyone has 'regressed' for lack of a better word to how they were when I first met each one. But this new emotional side to Click is unnerving in a way. Before, all he did was come out and try out different new 'sounds'. He might hit an object to his head, experiment by scratching things,and was indifferent to me, communicating only with one tap for yes and 2 for no. Now..now he clings to me like the floor is on fire. I think he's scared of her..but more, for me.

I'm not sure to be scared or not. I think her absolute black/white thinking is illogical and may be able to be reasoned with..but tonite I confronted my son about an email I got from the school about some grades...and I swear 'she' looked at me 2-3 times. He verbalized he was getting overly angry and wanted to throw something against a wall and did that tilt of the head like she did....and it was disconcerting how he said he wanted to hurt an object, but how he looked at me made me feel he wanted to hurt ME...and...I think it was really her presence/influence I was seeing on his face.

So....what do I do to keep me safe and him safe and the inside family safe when she doesn't care about contracts or reason and defiantly states her purpose is to cause as much pain and suffering as she can???

This Vitell reminds me of my Ell, who is a multiple within our system. (Funny, Vitell should have Ell in her name, when she sounds very much like mine. He-he.)
Ell is many persons, some witches, demons, priestess, necromancers, ghosts, serial killers, sacred whores, and many, many more wild, feral little children, who we call the kinder-kin.
Magdella, who is the a’Lilit priestess (in the Ell religion, a’Lilit is the highest ranking priestess) has often killed, abused, maimed, and endangered the kinder-kin and her sisters.
Even the kinder-kin play with violence.
Knives are their dolls, and they make-believe serial killer games, or disturbing inquisitions.
(The Spaniards and the Mesoamericans are a favorite situation for play.)
I believe that the violence for them has purpose.
Magdella once said, “Destruction is nothing but the other side of creation.”
It’s their culture and religion and their understanding of life.
Some religions or world view's aim for peace, solitude, acceptance and release from pain, but Ell and my Ell’s religion aims to create extreme terror, pain, suffering, and destruction.
Lola believes if I was not here to love my Ell, she would have killed outside the body.
It might be true, but then maybe not.
She is dangerous, my Ell.
It is unwise to visit her woods in the night, because of the monsters and the hunger.
But my Ell also has temperance, and so does Vitell, or these two would already have found my body and your son’s in prison.
Maybe this person in your son’s system has experienced a brunt of violence and has integrated it into her worldview, like my Ell.
When I think of what happened to my Ell, and to me it seems extreme and unjustifiable, it had equal but different meaning to them.
Despite the horrific, awful things, there was spirituality in it that meant something to them.
It is her rational, and she reacts in ways that fit her view.
An example is the archangel of Ell once saying he wished to die, and I reached to embrace him, and Magdella slit his throat.
She believed she was honoring his wishes and giving him peace.
It’s easy to look at brutality without considering their world view and say, “Look! That is terrible and abusive and deplorable, and you are sick, broken, unhappy, and twisted.”
But it’s really not the truth.
Maybe it is our truth as people outside of them, but it is not the only truth.
I do not mean to sound bold or brazen, but treating this person as a rabid dog will not help the situation.
To lock her away, to chain her, it only punctuates that she is something other than human; something objectified and different and to be kept away from “good”.
There is no room for healing in this situation.
People like her, like my Ell, need love, comfort, and someone to wash away the ancient blood and douse their fire, or else let it consume them.
If she is like my Ell and the Ell’s, gentle treatment will hurt her.
Maybe she will run from it.
Maybe she will beg others to do awful things to her.
My Ell asks this of me, and I can not.
Sometimes it is so bad she locks the gates, and I can only sneak glances of her.
Maybe she will hurt someone inside, or herself.
But these acts have a language and a meaning and if you can listen and look beyond the pain, and embrace them, and love them, maybe with time their world will change from a place of darkness into a place of darkness with hints of light.
I am the Light for my Ell. Could someone be Vitell's light?
My Ell has agreed to give up her religion for one month, to see what would happen.
Maybe your Vitell, if she grows to accept others within the system, would give up her anger and violence for a time, just to see.
But this took years and years for my Ell to do.
I believe a lot in love, especially toward those who do not know it, do not understand it, and think they are beyond it.
It will be difficult and there will be pain. There will be blood and danger.
But beneath Vitell's dark dynamic, there is something other.
If you accept her, you might see it, when she does not even see it herself.
I could be wrong or perhaps misunderstood.
Our system accepts the Ells and their behavior, even if the inside is tainted with death by their knife.
This may not be the path your son would want, and if it is true, it is my sincerest hope that both he and the others and this Vitell can make peace in whatever way is best for them.
There is no switch to flip or straight forward path to heal this kind of rage.
My Ell will never be tame, but it does not make her unlovable or undeserving of proper treatment.
It's a slow dance, to give a little love and take a lot of pain, but it evens out, and one day you might find Vitell in a different state of being.
She may act through scare tactics, but I doubt she does this without a purpose.
I am sorry for your struggles and fear.
Perhaps distance would keep the others safe, but isolation may only fuel the fire, and it does not give her oppurtunity to experience anything outside of what she already knows.
In Light,
Linn

HopeIsHere wrote:So....what do I do to keep me safe and him safe and the inside family safe when she doesn't care about contracts or reason and defiantly states her purpose is to cause as much pain and suffering as she can???

I hate to say this, but is she is too out of control, you may need to check him into a hospital or behavioral health unit for his and everyone's safety. I've been in a hospital before, and I'm happy I went. If I didn't, I wouldn't be here today to enjoy how great life is. It is important to be very aware of his danger level and do what needs to be done to ensure he and everyone else remains safe. He will get better one day, and in my opinion, you are doing an amazing job at helping him.

Don't forget that Vitell is a part of your son. She is a compartmentalized emotion that he once felt. A goal in therapy is to understand what created emotions and situations created this part. It helps me to remind myself that my parts are not foreign, they are part of my own mind. For me, scary parts are created to defend us or endure abuse, and when they are close I swear it feels like I'm standing next to the devil- it takes my breath away with fear. When they are close, I feel like I need to be held tight by my girlfriend. She sounds terrifying, and I can imagine you are very concerned as his mother. Often times, the angry parts need the most love of all of them.

If I were your son, I would want to feel safe and loved when Vitell is close. Remind him that it is 2012 and he is safe. "That was then, this is now" is a mantra I use that helps.

You mentioned she is illogical and black and white...this is just a thought, but I know that when talking with someone with delusions (not that your song does, I'm just connecting illogical with delusions), you should avoid discussing their delusions as if it were reality- It makes it more real to them and is very distressing. When talking with her, have you tried to avoid letting her run the conversation? Things she says represent her purpose in your sons system that are no longer happening.

Remember- Vitell feels that her purpose is to cause harm...but what is making her feel that way? What could have made your son feel that way? Find the purpose, and when you talk with her, make it clear that there is no need to feel that way. You can also help your son by helping him understand to deal with the situation that Vitell has been created to handle. She may be holding some terrible memories that is making her act this way.

HopeIsHere wrote:but tonite I confronted my son about an email I got from the school about some grades...and I swear 'she' looked at me 2-3 times.

Interesting...What about that situation triggered this part? Was he feeling defensive? Embarrassed about bad grades? (feeling embarrassed is triggering to me, because it feels like shame felt after abuse) Maybe he is feeling like he is trying but is having a hard time in school on account of living with DID? (It can be almost impossible at times, no matter how hard I try)

Could you ask your son how he felt when you confronted him? He may not really be able to pinpoint it, but learning this would be helpful to him. He would benefit by learning what triggers each part. Once he achieves that, he will be able to self talk and let the part know he is safe and "that was then, this is now".

Hope my thoughts on your post help. And keep up the good work! Many of us here are a little envious of your son haha

Linn - Thank you for your response - I believe I have met your Ell before and I appreciate her honesty and - as you said - temperance... you say "It’s easy to look at brutality without considering their world view " What an important observation - it's true that when we see things based on OUR own morals, experiences, etc... we don't 'get it'. . .

I agree that the chaining is not helpful - Alex did agree to modify this; the chain has been moved from around her neck (collar) to just her ankle. he states he is working on a safe house-type habitation for her - but I've had no updates for 4 days or so...

I'm a little confused what you mean here when you say "People like her, like my Ell, need love, comfort," but then say "If she is like my Ell and the Ell’s, gentle treatment will hurt her." Maybe you can give me an example of how to be comforting/loving without it becoming the type of 'gentle treatment' that can actually be counterproductive? I know that she likes to be hurt....when she and Alex fought last..and he actually struck/fought back - he was able to heal and when he tried to help heal her - she got angry; she wanted to be left with her wounds...

How has it been for Ell and (everyone) since she has taken on this experiment to give up her religion for a month??

You mention others in your system accept her, even with the darkness....you have littles, correct? How did they get introduced? How do you help them to feel safe if she is violent? Again - thank you for your response - it has really made me think!

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Humptydumpty:

Thank you - my son was hospitalized just this August for feeling homicidal and feeling it might not take much for him to really lose control and do something...he's very objective about where he is and what he needs - but this was like an overlay of the underlying stirrings...now that Vitell is awake and is more extreme / black/white about things - the thought of her coming out and not having that objectivity and restraint is a fear... BUT - Alex is stronger, I believe, and 'watches' who is out/when...he says he doesn't need to sleep and so can pay extra attention while we're figuring things out...for now it's been ok.

I think part of her purpose is NOT to care about me so that the things I have done/not done as a parent that contributed to any distress he has had - can be discussed. She isn't worried about hurting my feelings so she can be totally honest about what (they) think of me or what I have done or not done that has directly or indirectly hurt him....

With the other 3 alters that others warned could be dangerous - loving them and comforting them as you have mentioned - they allowed me 'in'; became more gentle...and are in the home as one big family...

It's good to know about not entertaining the delusions. I really like our T but sometimes I'm not sure she has all the answers (who could?) and so this is a very important thing to know and I trust someone who has experienced it first hand ....

...as far as the trigger about talking about my son's grades - I think it is that when he lived with his father, he was made to feel that he needed to be perfect...love was conditional on performance... and so my confronting him made him feel 'caught' and also - ashamed that he 'failed' in the first place...

Anyway - thank you both for taking the time to write and for your advice! It has give me quite a bit to think about!!!

I had a response but I lost most of it.... Sorry, I'm kinda fuzzy right now. But in a nutshell, I think it was this:

She believes her purpose is to cause harm, but why does she believe that? Are you able to ask her that, or is your son able to (through verbal or written communication)? Instead, what about her purpose being to NOT CARE IF she caused harm? Such as you said, not caring about if she hurts your feelings so that certain feelings that your son might be ashamed about can be expressed? That would make more sense to me. Because then, she wouldn't care if she harmed people, verbally or physically, if she needed to, whereas your son might have hesitations, despite needing to defend himself or express himself or other such things.

You replied to Cassie's post about "Hannibal's" attack on us. I think there's a similarity between Vitell and "Hannibal". Because "Hannibal" doesn't care- he says he doesn't believe he's a part of me, but he's not stupid, so I know he knows the truth deep down, but he refuses to care. And I'm sure he'd be just as uncaring towards my dad if it ever had come down to that. Vitell might be the same way. She might be just as uncaring for IF the situation ever came down to something such as extreme self defense- including ending the life of an attacker. She also might be there to not care if she had to hurt other alters in order to keep them in line, keep them hidden, keep them safe even, etc. I know that when Kat was the abusive Kataki (being manipulated by "Hannibal"), she did harmful things to keep myself and others, especially Cassie, in line and to keep them from being "found" since we couldn't afford that yet- even to keep them from being "out" to protect them from our environment (though her way of protecting usually involved harm), and to make it so we were able to function and survive better.

While Vitell needs care and love, it can be harmful to her because she can see it as a trick of you trying to gain trust for bad reasons, she might think that you're trying to make her "weak" or "soften" her up, she might get angry because she thinks that you don't think she can handle stuff on her own, it might frighten her because she's not used to it, it might confuse her because it's something different, stuff like that. She needs care and love, but she also needs time to adjust to the offer of a helpful hand, because otherwise she might be insulted by it or fear it and just bite it to make it go away.
I know that when Kat was Kataki, she had these views on a lot of caring/loving efforts and shows of affection, and she would angrily dismiss them, and sometimes even lash out against them. Care and love includes giving space, understanding, and communication- not necessarily telling them that you can help them, but telling them stuff like you understand where they're coming from, you want to hear what they have to say, you accept them as they are despite disagreeing with their tactics, you love them as the are despite disagreeing with them, you don't expect them to trust or even like you but you'd like it if you could be civil towards each other, etc.
I know that one of the ways Mike through Kat/Kataki for a loop and helped her to start calming down and realizing that he wasn't trying to trick her or anything was always asking questions- how she was doing, what her favorite color was, what her favorite food was, what she liked to do and why- simple questions that she had never been asked before. She was even at a loss for some of the questions, because she'd never thought about the answer before since she'd never been asked before. And even when she wasn't out, Mike would ask me "How's Kataki?" Consistent and constant communication, even just little things like questions, helped to show Kat that it wasn't a trick, it wasn't an act, and that Mike truly did care about HER, not just me. Slowly, Kat began to not react with so much hostility, and began to treat him civilly, which is all that he ever asked of her. Doing stuff like this might help Vitell.

If I had any more to say, I lost what it was. But I hope that I was at least somewhat helpful.