BPD & Dissociation

Hello


I was wondering if you could help me determine the difference between a dissociation from who you know you should be (you but not you kind of thing) where you're still aware of what's going on and can remember most of it upon breaking back into your 'true self' (some parts missing, but everything fogged over like a distant memory or dream almost) and the kinds of dissociations that are complete black outs of time and space?

I've read this board a few times and I see that everyone has 'alters' and that those alters seem to communicate to the self and between each other to some extent, but my dissociation doesn't happen like that all and my pieces don't communicate to each other of to me. I'm not ever=n e=sure if they completely separate or fully 'split' from me even. It's kinda hard to explane, but I'll try.

There is a child in me, and when I do things like go to an amuzment park with my own children the child comes over me and is there. I'm still there too, but I'm not 'driving the car anymore' if you know what I mean, it's like I'm a passenger in my body and someone else is making it move. It's right there, and the kids call me mom, I still am mom, but I'm not a mother- I'm a child. I laugh too much, I run too much, I bounce up and down in excitement (I'm 32 years old btw) and other adults in the area look at me as I'm nuts. I'm me, but I'm not me- I'm a different me that's so not me, it's a complete child, and I'm not like that all the time (sometimes, but it has to be stimulated to happen)

There's another me, a strong me, very beautiful and sexual me, who is powerful, confident and desired by many. I am not this person in my own self. The me I am is nothing special or noticeable, but when this piece of me takes over, the world is mine and I can have anything I want (and I usually get it too) This me is stimulated a few ways; either through sexuality or through necessity (unable to cope in my own mind and this me takes over with grace and confidence to get me through a time where I feel meek and shy, or fragile and scared, etc...) This piece of me has been around the longest (that I can pin point) and like I said when I'm this other piece of me, I'm still ME, but I'm no longer driving the car- someone else in control of it and she does such a great job at me happy and being strong for so long, I let her take the wheel and keep it for LONG periods of time- YEARS even! She is my favorite part of me, everybody loves her!

My rage is beginning to build it's own entity as well lately, the more I try to control it, the more it seems to be leaving the whole of me and becoming its own part. A monster.

I have many other pieces of my self too.

But they are not 'alters' (I don't think) because I can still stay lucid (powerless and an observer mind you) while these things are happening. The other pieces are in control of me (the car I say) but I'm only a passenger in my mind, and the vessel (car) in which they maneuver/drive.

I've been told these are 'fugue states' by some and perhaps that's somewhat true, but there just seems to be a bit more than, and not quite as much a true 'split' or DID itself.

Is anyone out there like me?

Are you still during your dissociation?
Are your pieces of self inside you to save you when you need them to and not there struggling for face time and conversing with each other?
Like pieces that are part of you, more than they separate?
Do you know what I mean?
Or am I just crazy?

Thnx

I should point out here that I am clinically diagnosed as being BPD/HPD 3 years ago, but I'm not sure if I'm getting worse with all these pieces now?

So am I alone in this phemominon of dissociation as a Borderline Personality?

I find it difficult to relate to, and wonder if this is something other than BPD. I "think" that when most people in this forum talk about disassociating their referring to the feeling that they become unconnected or numb. With you it seems that you're taking on a different persona depending on the situation you're in. The only part that may seem BPD in the rage part. I've not seen someone write about becoming euphoric in the way that you describe. In my opinion, it sounds closer to some form of multiple personality disorder rather than BPD. I've only known one person that was diagnosed with mpd, and when they'd take on a different persona they wouldn't recall it, and each persona had a name, and some personas may be male while others are female. It doesn't seem you have that though. I guess the moral of the story here is I don't know. There are different extremes of disassociation and you may want to research and see if you can find something that you can relate. Here's something I found on mpd.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociati ... y_disorder

It's possible others will disagree with me. There is a section in the board index for Dissociative Disorders it may be worthwhile posting there, and getting other opinions.

My personal opinion is that this is not BPD.

With dissociation, I always thought it was more of a "detaching" from yourself and your emotions so as not to have to confront pain/experience emotions, etc. I don't think what you described is termed dissociation. However, I have heard from many Borderlines that they feel they have different personas. I don't have BPD, but have been told I have certrain traits of the disorder, and even my immediate family has noticed that I have different personas. I'm not sure if these are different moods or personalities or what. But sometimes I can be extremely giddy and childish, even talking in a soft high pitched voice. Other times, when I'm feeling threatened, I have a more masculine persona (I'm female) that is very tough/aggressive. Even my mannerisms change depending upon how I am feeling: childlike, feminine or masculine.

I think this is quite common in personality disorders, but it's not termed dissociation. That's something different, I believe. I think Cbox had a good idea when he suggested you research the term.

With dissociation, I always thought it was more of a "detaching" from yourself and your emotions so as not to have to confront pain/experience emotions, etc.

This is correct, and I believe this is how most BPD's would relate to it. I have BPD, and there's times I just don't feel anything.

Xtreme - I think you should try posting in the Disassociation Disorder part of the board, and see if anyone has any ideas.

Thank you I have posted in DID forum and had some insght from posters in there.

It seems different though, they talk to their selves and are more split that I appear to be (fully blacking out- most of them) some have the back seat driver thing I have as well (where I'm there but not in control of the 'car'

The disscoiation we do from people and things to protect ourselves and not feel pain, have to deal with thins, ect is actually called splittig. Seeing balck and white and seperating from the 'item' ordinly. I do that too- all the time. But being as it is so highly typical of BPD's to do that I didn't thiunk it relelvant to mention in the discription, that's all.

I'm still very confuissed here but I'm hoping to get to my old shrink before he leaves for vacy in mid January and find out a nit more about this newerphenominon.


Thanks all for your input on this & Merry Christmas

Hi Xtreme,

I relate to the aspects of yourself that you describe - I also feel like there are different parts of me responding to different situations; I have the child, seductress and anger monster reacting to my environment too. I think it's a defence mechanism to whatever is happening around me, which is tied up with conforming, getting people to like me and approve of me, or feeling helpless, misunderstood and rejected. Does that sound similar to your experience?

I think the important thing is that you're recognising the different 'yous' and are wondering which ones are really a part of your identity. Not having a clear sense of identity is a big part of BPD and that's something I've experienced. Lately, I've learnt that nons also have different parts of themselves that they draw upon to deal with different situations. I've noticed that the parts I draw upon, by comparison, can be extreme and don't have the same skill sets as the nons. I think that's why it's important to work closely with a compassionate professional, who can focus on fleshing out skill sets that are under-developed or instigating those that don't exist yet. Your questions at the end of your post suggest that you may have areas outside of BPD traits that a professional could help you with as well.

You're not crazy - I relate to your giddy and overexcited child, your powerful and charismatic lady, and your volcanic and gradually building monster - and I'm not crazy. Instead, a bunch of psychiatrists have given me a bunch of convenient labels that act as short-hand for discussion of what I need. What's really important is the stuff that's going on behind those labels because that's what the experts and you will use to work out how to get what you need: inner peace. Be kind to yourself.

I think there are different levels of dissociation, and the actual aspect of dissociation occurs differently in certain people, mostly because of either their brain chemistry or their upbringing.

Also, some people relate more to certain elements of dissociation (depersonalization and derealization) more than others. I personally have much stronger depersonalization than I do derealization, and I think that's something common in people with BPD because it's basically the breakdown of one's personal "self" (which sounds a lot like your description of feeling like you're backseat driving - a lot of people describe it as feeling as though they're on autopilot).

Derealization, on the other hand, is more about dissociation with the outer world than inner world, where you feel that your surroundings, rather than yourself are detached or unreal. They both overlap very often, though, so they can be confused and are often present at the same time. Some psychiatrists don't even bother making the distinction, while others do.

And then, like I said, there are different levels that people might go through. You may black out less because the level of your dissociation may be slightly lower than those with DID. You may also find that the more stressed you are, the more likely you are to black out. The level of anxiety is almost always contrasted with the level of dissociation. This is where the whole splitting thing comes in, where strong emotions and feelings are countered with strong dissociation.

I'm guessing you know most of this, but I'm also writing this for the people that may come across this as something new.

I think, personally, that it's a good idea to get more information from your psychiatrist. What you've been describing sounds like it's on a very blurred line between BPD and DID. They're not entirely unfamiliar because of this exact subject. I think this is why the current DSM states that if a person meets all of the criteria for BPD, they should be analyzed further to make sure they're not suffering from DID and being misdiagnosed with BPD.

My personal opinion is that if you're experiencing things by using a general term to apply to the different aspects of your personality that come around in sort of the same way that moods do or if you feel something has triggered a certain reaction from you, then what you're experiencing is not at all unusual to people with BPD. But if you're actually experiencing things as completely distinct personalities, which have very distinct traits and very distinct reactions, then you have the right idea to take it up with your psychiatrist, because that could be a much higher level of dissociation than splitting.

I think you should also just try to maybe take note (mentally or on paper) if your dissociation occurs during stressful times and if it's triggered by something, or if it just comes and goes without anything else really explaining it.

I have this too, and it's actually what brought me to these boards; to find out just how 'crazy I am' I guess

It makes me wonder:

As borderline is often thought of being on edge of ones sanity, close to edge of true splitting and disosiation of the self, but regardless of that 'split' the trauma still seems to have the same effect

So, despite all these controversial issues, it can be said simply that child abuse leaves you with a confused mass of ordinary human emotions. But this confusion can feel so painful that your primary defense will be to “get away” from it all and to turn your back on values such as love and forgiveness. Thus you will find yourself in a living hell with recourse to nothing but empty human solutions of anger, bitterness, and fear.

If, through proper psychotherapy you have the courage to face those emotions, tease them apart, and understand how each one affects your behavior, then there is real hope. Otherwise you will spend the rest of your life reacting automatically and blindly to your emotions, blaming others and feeling victimized by circumstances that are really of your own making. Because, as hard as it sounds, when you turn away from true love in the first place, it’s your choice, and yours alone. It may be a tragic mistake, influenced by ignorance and fear—or even the social pressure of “programming” or brainwashing—but, at its root, it’s still your free choice. And, being a free choice, it can be remedied by your freely turning back to what you turned away from in the first place.

Sourcehttp://www.guidetopsychology.com/mpd.htm

Anmd the last line is the one that has the deepest inpact me, the remidy...

Has anyone travelled the Journey yet?
Thanks

Air Captain wrote: if you're experiencing things by using a general term to apply to the different aspects of your personality that come around in sort of the same way that moods do or if you feel something has triggered a certain reaction from you, then what you're experiencing is not at all unusual to people with BPD. But if you're actually experiencing things as completely distinct personalities, which have very distinct traits and very distinct reactions, then you have the right idea to take it up with your psychiatrist, because that could be a much higher level of dissociation than splitting.

Hi Air Captain, thanks for the post and clarification. (My original post was definitely from a BPD perspective - good luck in your info session with your psych, Xtreme.)