Asperger's Syndrome and AvPD

Do you think that there may be a good deal of overlap between the two? Particularly in males (where there's like a 4:1 male:female ratio for Asperger's). My very first psychiatrist at the age of four (he only saw me for like one session I think and Dx'd me as autistic on the spot. Since I had above average intelligence, my school records had me down for high-functioning autism/PDD. They had me see another psychiatrist at age 10. At around age 4, we did see another psychiatrist for a "second opinion" and he did some sort of "test" on me (my parents don't know the details) and he said I wasn't autistic.

I also did a test for the autistic spectrum/Asperger's test online and I scored 31/40. Very borderline score. You need to score 32 to qualify. And then I took the test again later on when I started to desire social interaction more and I scored 26/40. I wouldn't be surprised if my score would be even lower if I took the test again because I'm even more social now. I'm not entirely convinced that I am on the spectrum. Maybe I have more "autistic" qualities than average. Most likely. A male friend of mine yesterday (who I know in real-life and sees me interact with the world in real-life) says that I'm definitely not autistic. That I'm not like a mutual acquaintance of ours named Andy (who is legitimately diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome). He says that my issues are likely due to social anxiety and relative social/worldly inexperience (he has social anxiety himself). And friends of mine have pointed out that I have made great improvement in the last 4-5 months. Exposing myself to social situations (going out every Saturday, sometimes twice a week) has helped me out a lot.

Also Aspies/HFAs tend to be oblivious when they commit the social blunders that they do (ie. rambling about themselves and their interests excessively. Having these one-sided conversations). I have a tendency to do this. But I'm at least aware that I'm selfishly dominating conversations. It's an old habit that is very hard to break. I'm pretty sure you've figured out by now that I actually like to talk (when I'm not socially anxious).

I still find myself to be pretty socially awkward (but I do learn from social blunders). And relating to women is just very difficult for me if she expects me to "take the lead". And I wondered if that was maybe a sign of having Asperger's. Since people on the spectrum have abnormally "male-oriented" brains. I'm actually surprisingly competent at times when chatting with a talkative, extroverted female. If she steers the conversation herself, I do a much better job. But if she expects me to steer the conversation (and most do), I inevitably hit a dead end. I don't know how to get girls interested and talking. I wish I had audio recordings and chat logs of every successful conversation I had with a female to "understand" why those conversations were successful. The only thing I made a mental note of over the years is that I can only seem to gel with talkative women. This whole shy boy/shy girl love fantasy thing I had over the years is just not feasible.

It might be precursor for some persons. I don't think there is overlap. There are different paths for this awesome condition.


I did AQ test and scored 17.

I don't think I have violated unwritten social rules. Personal space (mine and others) is very important to me; always been. There's great deal of anxiety. For me being cross-eyed great deal of my life is not really social advantage (you'll lose normal eye contact and look weird). I'm also extremely sensitive any kind of rudeness and emotional stuff as long as I can remember. Being anxious may look like Aspergers for outsiders and it also mimics some autistic spectrum symptoms like short term memory but it is not permanent.

Yeah I find that when I'm socially anxious, I'm more likely to display "Aspie-like" behaviours. When I'm not in my head space so much, I'm more natural. That's probably why that male friend said that I don't have Asperger's. Because I'm not nervous when I talk to him. I might be socially ignorant/inexperienced when it comes to things. But as I gain experience in those things or I am given feedback on how to correctly do something and I understand the feedback, that goes away.

I'd be careful about letting women steer the conversation, especially for most of the ones under age 25. I have found that their major topic of interest, indeed, often their only topic of interest, if you let them lead will be... their boyfriend and all the intricasies of their relationship with him. It can get hella boring to listen to that ad infinitum.

Before I knew better I remember asking one girl where she met her boyfriend, and she gives me this hour long story which could have been condensed, without any loss of information, to "I met him at a party and I liked him and my friend agreed he was cute".

Seriously there is no end to it and I wonder if it's a female mirror asperger's: the aspie wants to talking about electrical circuits or whatever for an hour when no one is interested and they can't see that. The female with this "mirror asperger's" wants to talk about her boyfriend and their completely banal meeting for an hour and nothing else. (And, yes, I am a chump for having listened that long. I freely admit that.)

After this happened to me about a dozen times, I set a new rule that I would not talk to girls about their boyfriends for more than a sentence or two and if they brought up the subject I would change it.

You seem to be stuck on the idea that you have avpd. Why?

Only in that anxiety is very common with both problems. People with AS can develop many other problems. From wiki:

Autism spectrum disorders tend to be highly comorbid with other disorders. Comorbidity may increase with age and may worsen the course of youth with ASDs and make intervention/treatment more difficult. Distinguishing between ASDs and other diagnoses can be challenging because the traits of ASDs often overlap with symptoms of other disorders and the characteristics of ASDs make traditional diagnostic procedures difficult.In spite of these difficulties, comorbid disorders are readily identified and tend to fall into six categories, medical conditions, intellectual disabilities, anxiety disorders, mood disorders, behavior-related disorders, and sensory processing disorders.



Social Phobia or Social Anxiety Disorder is seen in approximately 7.4% of individuals with ASD, but is more common in higher-functioning individuals who have a desire for social interactions, but are also aware of their social deficits.

I always score low on those online aspie tests, be, in reality, I think I might be close. Maybe I'm just "paranoid" as they say, or maybe those quizzes are very blunt instruments. I mean asking someone who potentially has poor social acumen about how wide their range of interest are and if they like socializing and get social situations. Think you are going to need an external judge for that.

techaddict wrote:Do you think that there may be a good deal of overlap between the two? Particularly in males (where there's like a 4:1 male:female ratio for Asperger's). My very first psychiatrist at the age of four (he only saw me for like one session I think and Dx'd me as autistic on the spot. Since I had above average intelligence, my school records had me down for high-functioning autism/PDD. They had me see another psychiatrist at age 10. At around age 4, we did see another psychiatrist for a "second opinion" and he did some sort of "test" on me (my parents don't know the details) and he said I wasn't autistic.

I also did a test for the autistic spectrum/Asperger's test online and I scored 31/40. Very borderline score. You need to score 32 to qualify. And then I took the test again later on when I started to desire social interaction more and I scored 26/40. I wouldn't be surprised if my score would be even lower if I took the test again because I'm even more social now. I'm not entirely convinced that I am on the spectrum. Maybe I have more "autistic" qualities than average. Most likely. A male friend of mine yesterday (who I know in real-life and sees me interact with the world in real-life) says that I'm definitely not autistic. That I'm not like a mutual acquaintance of ours named Andy (who is legitimately diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome). He says that my issues are likely due to social anxiety and relative social/worldly inexperience (he has social anxiety himself). And friends of mine have pointed out that I have made great improvement in the last 4-5 months. Exposing myself to social situations (going out every Saturday, sometimes twice a week) has helped me out a lot.

Also Aspies/HFAs tend to be oblivious when they commit the social blunders that they do (ie. rambling about themselves and their interests excessively. Having these one-sided conversations). I have a tendency to do this. But I'm at least aware that I'm selfishly dominating conversations. It's an old habit that is very hard to break. I'm pretty sure you've figured out by now that I actually like to talk (when I'm not socially anxious).

I still find myself to be pretty socially awkward (but I do learn from social blunders). And relating to women is just very difficult for me if she expects me to "take the lead". And I wondered if that was maybe a sign of having Asperger's. Since people on the spectrum have abnormally "male-oriented" brains. I'm actually surprisingly competent at times when chatting with a talkative, extroverted female. If she steers the conversation herself, I do a much better job. But if she expects me to steer the conversation (and most do), I inevitably hit a dead end. I don't know how to get girls interested and talking. I wish I had audio recordings and chat logs of every successful conversation I had with a female to "understand" why those conversations were successful. The only thing I made a mental note of over the years is that I can only seem to gel with talkative women. This whole shy boy/shy girl love fantasy thing I had over the years is just not feasible.

Hi I diagnosed myself with AvPD because I reviewed the symptoms and fit into every single one of them. I also took one of those ASP tests and scored a 38 but I do not fit all of the criteria for AS. I am a female.

I think there may very well be at least a blurred area. I suspected for a long time that I had AS, because I have always felt... uneasy... about social interaction. But I think part of the issue is that avoidants tend to see themselves as lacking social competence, whereas an observer might disagree. In the case of AS, those social problems are likely to be obvious to an outside observer. Then again, when it comes to me, personally, it seems likely that AS traits play some sort of part: it definitely runs in the family, although that fact could also be a factor in me being avoidant, having a father unable to cope with family life and an aspie brother requiring all the attention). Maybe I'm just particularly functional, being intelligent and a girl...

Well to conclude, I know I have aspie traits, but although I don't see me as completely socially incompetent, others don't tend to agree, so that seems more like AvPD. My brother with Asperger is more sociable than I am, but I definitely come across as more 'normal'.

I think Autism and AvPD are two separate things but they have a lot of the same symptoms. I think a person with Autism will struggle with social situations like a person with AvPD. But the experience for an autistic person is that they don't understand how to interact but a person with AvPD will just be scared.

When I'm in a new social setting I often feel like the situation is just alien to me. But I don't feel that way when I'm with someone I'm familiar with.