Gender

I don't know if this one will catch on, but I think it's worth a shot.

I've been noticing a few very subtle mentions here and there of gender-/sex-related points (besides the direct ones on the online dating thread.. lol). Anyway, this is something I'm curious about and I think others might be interested in sharing, even if only anonymously through the poll. Opinions without disclosure of personal self-perceptions are more than welcome.

I can't remember where, but I think I've read somewhere that having doubts about gender identity or sexual preference is something relatively common in avoidants (I might be mixing things up here, not sure). My own real-life best friend is a big question mark in this regard (I can't say he's avoidant or not, but it's a possibility). I hope I can encourage others here to share their opinions/experiences, or that I can at least bring some reassurance in letting them know that they're not alone in their views.

I'm male and I'm as heterosexual as it gets. But I have a strong dislike for my own gender, for two reasons: 1) I value aesthetic sense and, well, men are ugly; 2) while I can understand how the expected male role as a whole has developed in the course of history, I still think it's stupid.

IRL I look like a "plain hetero guy" and I don't intend to ever change my look. I would never cross-dress or anything, to me it'd be simply bizarre (not judging anyone here who may like this kind of stuff though, I think it's fine). But I often wonder what it would be like if I were a woman (i.e. been born as such).

Changing my avatar to celebrate my post

Note: I understand why I've evoked negative reactions in previous polls. I don't know if I'm succeeding, but I'm trying to be more considerate this time... I tried my best to come up with a good set of alternatives within the limited number allowed. Feel free to pick apparently contradicting choices if you see fit.

Good thread, deep, so deep I don't know if I understand it.

Humn, I am heterosexual. I don't think I have doubts about that. However, I like my gender better. It could just be the workplace I work in, but, for the most part... the women share my values. Compassion, good manners, kindness, lack of concern about sports. And I feel more comfortable around them as I don't care, at all, what they think about me usually. I find this with gay men too. There isn't the nervousness of impressing a guy so things are usually easier. Most of the hetero men I know are trying to be macho, obsessed with sports, unkind, uncommunicative... so yes, I don't like the male gender. Of course not all. But at least 50%. While I find this behavior rather rare in women. At least that I know.

I have asked myself if I liked women better sexually too, but no, I always feel like women are my sisters and to any extent I get sexually excited it is usually the effect the women on women action might excite/ tempt / control a man.

I am starting to become a little man avoidant. I find lately many of them much harsher than I did before. I wonder sometimes if it isn't my age. I feel like 41-50 men don't have a lot of use for. Once you hit 50 I think you start the "reminds me of my mom" but from 41-50 well. Just what I think. I notice sometimes on the train, no one ever offers me a seat anymore... but will KILL themselves to offer a seat to the 20 year old in front of me. I seem to remember that happening until just a few years ago.

SaraShaw wrote:Good thread, deep, so deep I don't know if I understand it.

Well I guess this was my point for starting it
(i.e., I don't either)

A plain old heterosexual male i am, though was apparently thought of as gay going through school and high school by others because i showed no real interest in women at the time.
I personally get along with females much better than males, from the way they think/act/talk and such i find to be generally more immature than women(not to say they cant be either) and easier to talk to in most cases. Though at the same time i never got along with my own age group very well either so take that as you will.

I've always been kind of interesting in this kind of topic, the way the mind works/thinks and such when put under different kinds of conditions, and seeing if there's connections to be made. I'd say there's at least some, since I'm far from normal in the general way i think compared to at least some more "normal" people I'm sure.
I also wonder sometimes what it would be like if i was a women instead of a guy, from everything from how it would simply feel to how the world would see me and how things would've turned out growing up as a women instead of a guy.

hourendous wrote:I also wonder sometimes what it would be like if i was a women instead of a guy, from everything from how it would simply feel to how the world would see me and how things would've turned out growing up as a women instead of a guy.

Yes I have these fantasies of a different life being a woman, for aesthetic reasons and I guess also for more complicated Freud-like stuff, like "being the object of my own attraction" or something of the sort. But I guess it all begins with kindergarten interaction, and then primary school and so on. Boys were generally invasive and disagreeable and had all sorts of social expectations. Girls just seemed to play any way they chose to. Real or not, this perceived freedom enjoyed by girls left a deep impression on me.

There were one or two wannabe bullies who sometimes mocked me and said I was gay in primary school, and some girls who actually believed it and asked me silly questions, but that didn't bother me all that much. It did bother me though the pressure to build a masculine image in high school, even if nobody ever called me gay or thought I was. Supposedly feminine traits of any kind were even more devalued than actual attraction to the same sex. That's very repressing. It's hard to find your authenticity when you're surrounded by this kind of pressure.

I'm an ordinary heterosexual male. It's not that I particularly like my gender but I wouldn't want to give up my physical strength and my low inhibition threshold to hurt someone that threatens me or someone close to me. I'd rather be a nuclear power among other nuclear powers instead of being defenseless and having to rely on the goodwill of others.

Women aren't so destructive which makes them loveable and they still need to be protected which makes me feel needed.

Does this sound pathetic, primitive? Hopefully someone thinks it's romantic

captain ad hoc wrote:There were one or two wannabe bullies who sometimes mocked me and said I was gay in primary school, and some girls who actually believed it and asked me silly questions, but that didn't bother me all that much.

This happens to me a lot now. Although I think it is a hazard of being a loner. In this crazy world... if you don't want to conform to the "relationship" world people tend to think there has to be a reason. And while there are like 7 zillion reasons, they always go to one. Every fact of my life goes to support their hypothesis, making me more avoidant of letting anyone know anything about me. It is very ironic because where I worked, if I was gay, I would gain valuable career advances.

It is just a hazard and contributing factor to being avoidant.

My brother uses this all the time. It is like a knife he uses against me. He got married and had a kid so he is "normal" and I haven't so I am not... so there has to be a reason why I wouldn't get married... there has to be... of course there are like 700 that he refuses to even think about... but..

Hetro male, all men look the same to me. The only difference i see in dudes is tall/short and fat/skinny/athletic/muscular. Women are sort of like food or music, there is something different for everyone's taste.

I don't really like other men, it may just be a competition thing but I just find us annoying. I don't really know how to describe it. When I played competitive team sports there always had to be some dominant idiot on the team, politics would form around it. So instead of just playing you had to deal with all these other social conflicts aswell.

Having said that I still can get along with males, I can understand and relate to them. Women I just find confusing.

I also guess i'm not the 'typical' male, i'm naturally submissive. I'm basically classical beta and am attracted to either the female equivalent of myself (quiet, introvert) or the complete opposite which is bossy and dominant. The submissive element may be why i don't like other men that much. A controlling woman seems acceptable, where as a controlling man is more confrontational.

ephemer wrote:Women aren't so destructive which makes them loveable and they still need to be protected which makes me feel needed.

Does this sound pathetic, primitive? Hopefully someone thinks it's romantic

I find it romantic. Everyone is different with their opinions on that. But I'm one that finds it attractive.

Anyway - for me. I am a straight woman. I went through a period where I was solely interested in women. But after a lot of thinking & introspection, I found that wasn't sexually attracted to women. I had no want to become sexual with them. What happened was I was extremely attracted to them in an aesthetic way as well as an emotional connection. So, I know I'm attracted to guys now, but I still have yet to actually get in a relationship with one. Being Avoidant kinda limits my interactions with others.

As for my feelings about my gender. I went through a very short period where I had fantasies about being a boy. I can't really explain it, I went through it when I was younger, around 13 probably. But it was not a general fantasy of being a boy, it was strictly associated with a certain type of fantasy which I won't share. (It was not a sexual fantasy.) But it didn't take long before I embraced the characteristics of being a woman. I tend to have an old-fashioned view of being a woman, which is kinda apparent by the fact that I liked the above idea about needing to be protected & such. There are certain things about being a woman that I don't like, that is related to sex, but that evolved from the fact that I was sexually abused most of my life. But apart from that, I love being a woman.

- EGD.

captain ad hoc wrote:There were one or two wannabe bullies who sometimes mocked me and said I was gay in primary school, and some girls who actually believed it and asked me silly questions, but that didn't bother me all that much. It did bother me though the pressure to build a masculine image in high school, even if nobody ever called me gay or thought I was. Supposedly feminine traits of any kind were even more devalued than actual attraction to the same sex. That's very repressing. It's hard to find your authenticity when you're surrounded by this kind of pressure.

I ended up dealing with things differently. I did my best to ignore most of the bullying, some of which were from my own bad habits. But in one of the earlier grades in school, between like 3-5 i "think", one of the 8th graders at the time got up in the middle of the bus on the way to school and called me gay. Another one i went to school with but met up with much later after i got out of school, said he always thought i was gay, so god knows who else did. I just got to the point where names themselves didn't bother me what so ever, the people who call people names tend to grate my nerves though.
Highschool for me was basically avoid people best i can(Magic The Gathering in the library with a few friends at the time ftw!). I hated the idea of high school and the whole damn thing felt like some sort of social experiment gone wrong that i wanted to play no part in, lol.