Excess neurons in ASD

Neuron Number and Size in Prefrontal Cortex of Children With Autism
Eric Courchesne, PhD; Peter R. Mouton, PhD; Michael E. Calhoun, PhD; Katerina Semendeferi, PhD; Clelia Ahrens-Barbeau, BS; Melodie J. Hallet, MS; Cynthia Carter Barnes, PhD; Karen Pierce, PhD
Author Affiliations: Department of Neuroscience, NIH-UCSD Autism Center of Excellence, School of Medicine, University of California San Diego, La Jolla (Drs Courchesne, Barnes, and Pierce and Mss Ahrens-Barbeau and Hallet) and Department of Anthropology (Dr Semendeferi), University of California San Diego, La Jolla; Department of Pathology & Cell Biology, University of South Florida School of Medicine, Alzheimer's Institute and Research Center, Tampa (Dr Mouton); and Sinq Systems Inc, Silver Spring, Maryland (Dr Calhoun).
Abstract

Context Autism often involves early brain overgrowth, including the prefrontal cortex (PFC). Although prefrontal abnormality has been theorized to underlie some autistic symptoms, the cellular defects that cause abnormal overgrowth remain unknown.

Objective To investigate whether early brain overgrowth in children with autism involves excess neuron numbers in the PFC.

Design, Setting, and Cases Postmortem prefrontal tissue from 7 autistic and 6 control male children aged 2 to 16 years was examined by expert anatomists who were blinded to diagnostic status. Number and size of neurons were quantified using stereological methods within the dorsolateral (DL-PFC) and mesial (M-PFC) subdivisions of the PFC. Cases were from the eastern and southeastern United States and died between 2000 and 2006.

Main Outcome Measures Mean neuron number and size in the DL-PFC and M-PFC were compared between autistic and control postmortem cases. Correlations of neuron number with deviation in brain weight from normative values for age were also performed.

Results Children with autism had 67% more neurons in the PFC (mean, 1.94 billion; 95% CI, 1.57-2.31) compared with control children (1.16 billion; 95% CI, 0.90-1.42; P = .002), including 79% more in DL-PFC (1.57 billion; 95% CI, 1.20-1.94 in autism cases vs 0.88 billion; 95% CI, 0.66-1.10 in controls; P = .003) and 29% more in M-PFC (0.36 billion; 95% CI, 0.33-0.40 in autism cases vs 0.28 billion; 95% CI, 0.23-0.34 in controls; P = .009). Brain weight in the autistic cases differed from normative mean weight for age by a mean of 17.6% (95% CI, 10.2%-25.0%; P = .001), while brains in controls differed by a mean of 0.2% (95% CI, −8.7% to 9.1%; P = .96). Plots of counts by weight showed autistic children had both greater total prefrontal neuron counts and brain weight for age than control children.

Conclusion In this small preliminary study, brain overgrowth in males with autism involved an abnormal excess number of neurons in the PFC.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/306/18/2001.short

This goes a long way to explain the sensory overload, as well the 'zoning out' issues. The PFC is the highest ranking part of the brain, integrating several very important structures. The Dorsolateral PFC is involved with the sensory and memory integration, whereas the Medial PFC has been associated with self-reference and emotional integration.

Exiting discovery.

So i guess some peoples brains really are bigger. Was always told everyones brain was the same size.

Ha! They're all wrong! It's not sh!t-for, but too-much!! Wait'll I tell 'em.

http://www.cell.com/neuron/abstract/S0896-6273%2811%2900439-9

Identification of complex molecular networks underlying common human phenotypes is a major challenge of modern genetics. In this study, we develop a method for network-based analysis of genetic associations (NETBAG). We use NETBAG to identify a large biological network of genes affected by rare de novo CNVs in autism. The genes forming the network are primarily related to synapse development, axon targeting, and neuron motility. The identified network is strongly related to genes previously implicated in autism and intellectual disability phenotypes. Our results are also consistent with the hypothesis that significantly stronger functional perturbations are required to trigger the autistic phenotype in females compared to males. Overall, the presented analysis of de novo variants supports the hypothesis that perturbed synaptogenesis is at the heart of autism. More generally, our study provides proof of the principle that networks underlying complex human phenotypes can be identified by a network-based functional analysis of rare genetic variants.

zausel wrote:So i guess some peoples brains really are bigger. Was always told everyones brain was the same size.

Brain size varies all over the place. Hardly anyone has the same size brain.

Excess neurons is not a good sign per se.

A baby's brain has the most neurons of all, just about everything is connected to everything else. As you grow up neurons get pruned away to help form working neural networks.

It's not the size that makes the difference, einstein had a smallish brain, it's the speed with which neurons can transmit signals.Glial cells are implicated in that. (of which einstein had a lot more then average)

petrossa wrote:It's not the size that makes the difference, einstein had a smallish brain, it's the speed with which neurons can transmit signals.Glial cells are implicated in that. (of which einstein had a lot more then average)

thanks for the info, i was unaware of this and i would have expected otherwise. food for thought.

"Harvey noticed immediately that Einstein had no parietal operculum in either hemisphere. Photographs of the brain show an enlarged Sylvian fissure; clearly Einstein's brain grew in an interesting way. In 1999, further analysis by a team at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada revealed that his parietal operculum region in the inferior frontal gyrus in the frontal lobe of the brain was vacant. Also absent was part of a bordering region called the lateral sulcus (Sylvian fissure). Researchers at McMaster University speculated that the vacancy may have enabled neurons in this part of his brain to communicate better. "This unusual brain anatomy...(missing part of the Sylvian fissure)... may explain why Einstein thought the way he did," said Professor Sandra Witelson who led the research published in The Lancet. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein's_brain

be nice if they sequenced Einsteins genome and figured out the underlying genetic cause of this unusual brain (so that the genes can be patented and parents offered the opportunity for zygotic manipulation so that they can have their own einsteins).

Rascals77s wrote:http://www.cell.com/neuron/abstract/S0896-6273%2811%2900439-9 More generally, our study provides proof of the principle that networks underlying complex human phenotypes can be identified by a network-based functional analysis of rare genetic variants.

thanks for the link, interesting hypothesis.

marycarterpaint wrote:

petrossa wrote:
be nice if they sequenced Einsteins genome and figured out the underlying genetic cause of this unusual brain (so that the genes can be patented and parents offered the opportunity for zygotic manipulation so that they can have their own einsteins).

I don't know, the last 2000 years of history makes me think most families aren't ready to have a autistic Jewish child of their own. Although having a baby Einstein would give a interesting new meaning to nuclear family.

WHAT???


I actually thought that the PFC had less neurons.....

HMmmm

If the PFC have over 60% more neurons than average then it also takes a lot more to kill of and destroy the PFC at least if you think about certain kinds like stress, alcohol. On the other hand the networks are appearantly also weaker in the PFC so they can more easily get destroyed.


What about other studies petrossa?
Are there any to studies on opther brain regions?



You know what? .............


Its not good with excess neurons because yes its like a chaos.
BUT..

What if you somehow managed to integrate those neurons in a efficient neural network?
I mean; Usually many neurons are pruned away cause they are of no use and just block the space.
But they are also useless because they are not fully integrated in the network because you use them so much as other neurons.

Excess neurons is not good. But what about excess, BUT integrated neurons??

The brain and the genes cant integrate and prune away the natural way, so the brain have to dysfunctioning.


But what if you could somehow to some degree manually integrate neurons and prune away or even manage to integrate all or of most of the excess neurons?

Its just a thought. Complete theory and interesting question. Practically its another story.....



An AS brain with excess neurons, BUT also an integrated one. And not just in the PFC, but all brain regions integrates. If the AS brain have maybe double the neurons than of normal ones dont you think that this AS brain IF it integrates fully could outperform normal brains with huge margin?

Normally: Excess neurons = BAD.
But why bad? Well, they arent integrated so they dont function as they should and its just a problem.

So if you could integrate most of these neurons then you would get a brain with double number of neurons AND integrated ones......

Wouldnt an integrated and fully functioning PFC with 67% more neurons easily outperform most brains?
And if you also have high IQ and intelligence genes then maybe even perfect




My whole point is: This excess neurons is a disadvantage. What if you could turn this out to an advantage? What if you could integrate the neurons?


You know there are excelletn ways actually to build brains: Aerobic exercise. It expands white matter, some gray matter although you may have far over enough gray matter from beginning. BUT with more white matter teh brain transforms into a more integrated and functional brain.



YES. Exercise do not just pumb blood into the brain............. Thats a tiny part of the picture.....



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11581543
http://jtoomim.org/brain-training/Acute ... %20and.pdf
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 132656.htm

Go to page 344:
http://dericbownds.net/uploaded_images/kramer.pdf

Go to the middle page:
http://www.fitwithz.com/EffectsofExcercise.html




Mental stimulation generally, exercise, juggling , all kinds of stimulation, Dual N Back tasks, books, socializing etc everything can affect the brain on a cellular level. It always changes so what if you seriously could exploit this unique feature of excess neurons in AS brains?

What if excess neurons doesnt necessarily have to get pruned away or at least not all. Let say 30% are pruned away, but the rest can integrate in efficient networks?


Now on meditaion:
What if you can alter your brain to feel much more empathy?
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... passionate


Its very difficuly to meditate in teh traditional way, you can always download or buy meditation cds where you can according to producers meditate via using sounds waves that works similar to traditional meditation.




This is a study of children yes. But I guess AS adults also have far more neurons than average dont you think?





I deeply appreciate your treads with these kinds of studies on the brain.

Especially this one. I wonder petrossa? Did you ever took any IQ tests? Did you score high?
Actually you and I guess some other aspies can really have some brilliant traits, even genious.

Aspie89 wrote:Did you ever took any IQ tests? Did you score high?

I was high when mine was scored. Petrossa was probably drinking wine during his. You know how those Frenchmen are.

Rascal77s wrote:

Aspie89 wrote:Did you ever took any IQ tests? Did you score high?

I was high when mine was scored. Petrossa was probably drinking wine during his. You know how those Frenchmen are.

I didnt ask you actually, but it doesnt matter.
How high did you score?


What test did you take?






After I realized that my brain probably have more neuronss than about every other human on the earth except other autists ever will have I begin looking more positively on AS

I shall try to integrate my brain and perhaps build a superbrain


According to WASI I already have a total IQ of 136, 119 on performance scale and actually 144 on verbal scale and I didnt use medications or any other stuff.....


I might even become a true genious

136 is not far away. WHat if you coukld penetrate this gene barrier by using most neurons integrated and go up to 150-160???



I look very forward to improve my brain to function at top peak efficiency!!



And dont worry..... Im not gonna run myself dead in a marathon
I think one hour each day with stationary bicycle, 30 minutes, then pause, then 30 minutes again and then 20 minutes with push-ups and other strength exercise will do the trick. Its natural.

Apparatus for muscle may be effective but it is actually often quite damaging for the body, especially your back etc.



Im gonna pump my brain full om power!

So after 80 minutes each day I can function better and better.




Can you imagine such a exercise regimen done EACH day over 4 years????


At page 334 at this http://dericbownds.net/uploaded_images/kramer.pdf you even see that both the right and left Prefrontal cortex have large increases in volume <3 <3

And teh white matter in the PFC also increases for sure and the PFC is more integrated <3 <3



"You are not stuck with the brain you were born with. Your brain can change." - Daniel G. AMen