What do you all think about forgiveness?

Hi all! (Been reading this forum for quite a while, finally have a question..)

This issue seems to polarize people when it comes to abuse. Some say that forgiveness is neccessary to "heal". Or that it has to come naturally. Others consider forgiveness to be unneccessary at best and harmful at worst.

I guess you'd have to define forgiveness, too.. forgiving doesn't mean condoning anyone's bad behaviour in the past but instead being willing to start anew, right? What do you think?

I think that this is especially an interesting topic when applied to emotional abuse that happened during childhood. Is it easier for an emotional abuser to pretend or re-interpret past events as mere "arguments" or "unpleasantness"? Am I making any sense? An abuser (and anyone else involved) can choose to reconstruct events however they like, if there is no physical evidence.

Just wondering, because I have been asked by my family (sister and mother) to "forgive" my father for abusing me for years. I'm not sure they ever saw it as abuse (or at least I've never heard them use that word.. my family doesn't use "ugly" words like that). They use words like "episodes" and "phases" and "issues".

To them, the whole matter is pretty much all my responsibility. I think they assumed this because he did indeed have a mental illness at the time and I'm supposed to be compassionate, I guess? I actually work in the mental health field now and have endless empathy for people with such illnesses, but it's so different when it's a family member!

So I immediately told them that I forgive him. But now I am re-thinking it.. do I really forgive him? Is it possible to turn on forgiveness like a light switch or something? I do love the man, and he has good qualities. We are even at the point where we can converse together and be in the same room (it's been about a decade since we could do that). But the fact that I will never get an apology for the things he did in the past makes me feel powerless and worthless. I suppose my mother and sister are just asking me to "fix things". They have never asked me how I feel about the matter.

The few times he lashed out at them (that I saw) I defended them. I only swore at my father once and it was because of something he did to my sister (I wasn't allowed to come home for 2 days as a result). I tried to defend my mother once, and I was promptly yelled at by both of them. I'm kind of foolish to hold out for some defence after all these years, but here I am!

Oh well, sorry, that's my rant for today Any feedback appreciated, I find the whole issue rather confusing.

PS. if anyone is curious, he had depression with some psychotic symptoms/addictions issues. Anyone else have an abuser with a mental illness? It just makes things that much more complex.. I'm assuming it's pretty common.

Hi, TarynJ! Welcome to the forum. This is an interesting thread. Forgiveness can be complicated and it can mean different things, like you said. I think you can find peace and a way to co-exist with your abuser, even feel ok about it and feel good for not leaving them alone. Some people see that as forgiveness. I could never make peace with what my abuser did and I don't think I could make peace with them either.
Maybe letting go of your anger for what your dad did and for the way your family treats you will be as close as you come to forgiveness, but you don't have to do it. Out growing them, in a way, but I'm not sure it's always possible. You can do what is comfortable for you and only that.

Hi, thanks for the reply.

I agree that it's healthy to let go of anger. It's really hard on the body (not to mention the mind) to hang on to anger.. I think other emotions have to take over eventually. I also think holding on to those negative feelings can lead to lashing out and the perpetuation of a violence cycle within families..

Even though this is logical, I still feel like it's hard to let go of anger like this. I feel as though there is a part of me that really wants to hang on to it, as though I am "fighting" for something and to lose anger would be to "give up". It's silly though, of course. There comes a point when you are only fighting yourself, progress, happiness, etc..

"Out growing them" is a good phrasing.. I like that.

TarynJ, it's ok if you can't let go of the anger now or even ever. But since you say that you can have a relationship with your family and even your dad and they probably couldn't understand if you told them how you feel, maybe you can find another way to express the anger.
I still have anger too, but if I talk to someone when I get upset it helps and I have more peace now. The triggers aren't as bad as they used to be. You can post here or PM me.

You can look at it this way, you forgive because YOU deserve it. You don't forgive because the abuser deserves it. There is a big difference.

A lot of people think that forgiveness is about saying, "I forgive you" to the abuser, but this is not correct, really. Telling someone you forgive them because you feel you're doing it for them, won't help you. Telling someone you forgive them when you know they don't deserve forgiveness, won't help you either.

Forgiveness is about giving yourself permission to let go of the anger, the sense of betrayal and a level of acceptance that what happened wasn't your fault and that the abuser is responsible for what he did.

In that sense, forgiveness can help us immensely on an emotional level.

Some people think that when we let go of anger, we are 'lighter' or feel a sense of release, but I don't think that is right either. Anger can change, and it can change into a sense of determination, or it can change into a sense of new-found knowledge or new internal personal development or growth. Anger can be a great motivator for many positive things.

If you feel you wish to hold onto anger, then do so, but make it a positive anger. A positive driving force that compels you to be or do something better because of your experience.

Does that make sense? It's a bit hard to convey on a forum board.

What I did with my anger was work through it, but it's not dissipated into a puff and allowed me to return to who I was before I became involved in a DV relationship. The destructive anger has gone, yes, but it's replaced with a desire and drive to expand my knowledge, change careers and begin a new journey of self-discovery, one that hopefully, in a few years time will have me on a path to help others who've experienced the same.

I hope that helps a bit.....take care

TarynJ,

Your family has an interesting way to view your abuse and I can understand why you are a little confused.

For me, forgiving was a post-mortem act because my stepfather had already died. It was, however, a big part of my healing not because I had absolved him of his wrong doing (sexual abuse) but because I was strong enough to let it go.

Anger, as others have said, is a very destructive emotion to carry around with you and if forgiving him means losing your anger, then that should be a goal for your mental well being, not his.

You don't owe him a thing and giving him a pass because he had mental issues is an unfair burden for your family to put on you. He was the adult and the parent. Many people with mental issues do not verbally abuse their children.

In the end, it is your call. Do what you can and do it for your sake not his.

Best,

I have a priority system for forgiveness:

1. Contrition or apology?
2. Is the person positively contributing to my life?
3. Is it likely to happen again if things go unchecked?
4. Are there other priorities in my life that deserve my attention?
5. Is my wife feeling loved?
6. Are my friends feeling loved?
7. Am I being the best me I can be?
8. Are my bills paid?
9. Are my responsibilities handled?

Why waste your time forgiving people low on your priority list when there are people and priorities way up high on the list who deserve your time and attention?

Like, why would you expend energy to forgive an unapologetic, insulting internet stranger when your wife needs to feel love, your bills need paying and you have numerous other priorities?

If anger is consuming you, give your head a shake - try just acceptance - it's easier to swallow. Acceptance is just as good as forgiveness.

Cheers, Sonovlaurin

Forgiveness isn't something that happens overnight. And I need the help of my Christian beliefs and friends to help me through this process.

Once I decided to give this to God, it freed me of having to think about this constantly and to have this person renting space in my head and interferring with my life everyday.

I gave up the right to PUNISH THAT PERSON, it's between him and God now. I could then begin the healing process.

I still think about it, but don't obsess about it. I pray for that person and myself to totally forgive them for what they have done to me. I felt the burden leave my shoulders and heart.

And like i said, it forgiveness doesn't happen overnight.

I know how it works too.. I have forgiven 100,000 times alot of those after very deep episodes that caused me extreme problems, like loosing my job and friends. If you come to a point where you say "Im Out of here". STICK to that. Get out of there, it will only go down hill after eons of immense struggling that isnt your problems but the other person/heartless psychopaths. It will take 40 years off of your life all because somebody elses bull crap. Just go.

Greetings

I know this topic is not that recent but it is an interesting one for me and I would like to offer some comments of my own.


This issue seems to polarize people when it comes to abuse. Some say that forgiveness is neccessary to "heal". Or that it has to come naturally. Others consider forgiveness to be unneccessary at best and harmful at worst.

I am not sure forgiveness at all comes from a natural impulse...it is something that has evolved in the collective human psyche over time and popularized (and perhaps distorted) by religion.
I have never heard of it as being 'harmful' but am interested in how it could be used harmfully.

I guess you'd have to define forgiveness, too.. forgiving doesn't mean condoning anyone's bad behaviour in the past but instead being willing to start anew, right? What do you think?

Defining words is difficult. The same word can signify one thing to someone and another to someone else...the best individuals can do is too know for themselves what their definition of conceptual words might be...an ability to explain to others is a bonus...
Forgiveness as a concept for me, has proven to be something used for the sake of my self rather than directly for the sake of others.


I think that this is especially an interesting topic when applied to emotional abuse that happened during childhood. Is it easier for an emotional abuser to pretend or re-interpret past events as mere "arguments" or "unpleasantness"? Am I making any sense? An abuser (and anyone else involved) can choose to reconstruct events however they like, if there is no physical evidence.

That is a great observation It helps to understand that individuals see things very differently so who is actually seeing things truthfully?
In one sense, everyone is seeing things trufully as far as subjectivity is concerned.
If this concept can be grasped, investigated and evaluated - it can helped directly with the concept of forgiveness.
It is a kind of 'allowance' - not for that which the individual regards as abuse (or for that matter, the religion, culture, science or politics regards as abuse) but rather allowance for the fact that individuals see the same event differently.

Just wondering, because I have been asked by my family (sister and mother) to "forgive" my father for abusing me for years. I'm not sure they ever saw it as abuse (or at least I've never heard them use that word.. my family doesn't use "ugly" words like that). They use words like "episodes" and "phases" and "issues".

To them, the whole matter is pretty much all my responsibility. I think they assumed this because he did indeed have a mental illness at the time and I'm supposed to be compassionate, I guess?

Guessing - not being sure - one needs to be sure of what is actually happening within the thoughts of these significant others and communicating effectively is the key to discovering - to taking the guesswork out of things.

When this is not being done, a kind of self-haunting can easily develop. This 'self haunting' is when one has to assume, second-guess - speculate etc...When the communication breaks down completely, then the act of forgiveness is an essential ingrediate in helping one re-focus rather than be entrapped by the internal looping dialog



I actually work in the mental health field now and have endless empathy for people with such illnesses, but it's so different when it's a family member!

Ultimately it is not really too different but often because of the way we are taught, family are different and can act differently than society at large have to act toward each other.
Remember that society is made up mostly of family units, and this fact also points to the conclusion that what is regarded as 'okay' within a family unit, is regarded as 'not okay' within the social unit.

Since it is family members which individually make up social units, then certain patterns of behaviour are suppressed when one is 'out in public' = we are for the most part when together in social units - expressing ourselves from a suppressed attitude - even less 'real' than when in the comfort and familiarity of our family unit.

The antidote would be to be 'real' in whatever situation we are in, which is also extremely difficult because niether might be that accpetable to those who are not being 'real'
(Being real = self honesty...being honest with the self)


So I immediately told them that I forgive him. But now I am re-thinking it.. do I really forgive him? Is it possible to turn on forgiveness like a light switch or something?

I recently had an experience where someone asked me to forgive them for their abusive behaviour - I too work in the mental health sector and this was from a client who had acted out and been verbally abusive.

Because the asking for forgiveness came about within a day after the incident and because of the pernalties which can come from such behaviour (like being stood down from the service for a period of time) I did not intuit that the asking for forgiveness was genuine.

Because I am learning to be truthful to myself I did not automatically reply.

The response to this pause - where I was obviously thinking about the request, the individual began to protest "Don't you want to forgive me" Don't you like me" etc.
To me this showed there will still signs of abusiveness coming through whch confirmed my doubts about the individuals sincerity.

In truth, we don't wnat to upset those we are close to (or work with) and thus it is best to go allong with 'normal' responces which are about gratifying the perpetrators expectations.

Or - even gratifying the expectations of other family members...this is why you are re-thinking "do I really forgive him?"

Likely it is that you don't - even though you said you did.
I think the most sincere reaction from someone asking for forgiveness, is that if the person they are asking does not want to forgive them, that they accept/allow for that. If they don't then they are still playing the controlling game.

I do love the man, and he has good qualities. We are even at the point where we can converse together and be in the same room (it's been about a decade since we could do that).


This is important


But the fact that I will never get an apology for the things he did in the past makes me feel powerless and worthless. I suppose my mother and sister are just asking me to "fix things". They have never asked me how I feel about the matter.

This is perhaps the most important observation. The key expression here is 'Makes Me Feel"

Now it is very true that whatever the abuse there is indeed that initial 'someone made me feel this way' and that feeling is not nice at all.

The apology you want may never come - allow for that but not to the point where it shifts the ownership of who is in control away from you and to the perpetrator.

The other aspect of this is that you love him and this extends to a kind of having to let go because you see he will never offer an apology.
Perhaps one way is to say to him one day that as far as you are concerned you have been at the recieving end of his abusive behaviour and that even if he never apologises, you are through with feeling worthless and powerless because of this, because you are in fact neither of these things.

It is likely that your father doesn't see you like this but even if he does, YOU don't need to see yourself like this and it can't do him any harm to be informed of this.

Remember that YOU are in truth the one who is in control of your own emotions and how you are feeling.