Daughter's abusive boyfriend

This is my first post, so first I just want to say "hello".

I have a 15 year old daughter that has been going out with a 17 year old boy. First they started out as just good friends, then ended up boyfriend/girlfriend. The 2-year age difference does bother me a bit, just because I feel a 17 year old boy has more freedom than we are willing to give our 15 year old daughter, we have kept her on a "very short leash" with him.

Lately, I am seeing signs that make me believe that he is emotionally abusive towards her. I don't think he was at first (they've been a "couple" for about 8 months). I really liked him before, but lately I am liking him less and less. There are the things that I know I don't like about him (and sometimes I say that I should loosen up, he is just a kid, maybe I'm too critical). But there is also something else that bothers me about him, but I can't quite put my finger on it. You know how you sometimes get that feeling?
(O.K., I'm starting to babble, I have that tendency!)

It's just that he seems too clingy, The text messages (yes, I snoop)
just don't seem appropriate for a 17 year old (really heavy stuff). Every single day it's things like: I could never live without you, I would die without you, you're the air I breathe and the water I drink, I will be with you forever; sappy stuff like that, might seem sort of romantic, but it's a constant thing, seems a little creepy (like he's obsessed).

My daughter has been telling me lately that he has some anger issues. When things don't go his way he will holler and scream at her over the phone. If he's upset about something that doesn't even involve her, he still gets angry with her. She has confronted him on this and he tells her "Well, if you're going to make it in life, you had better learn to deal with people "yelling" at you, everyone does it when they're upset!" That shows me that he doesn't care how he treats her. I've explained to her that your enemies yell at you, those who say they love you don't yell at you.

Also, he just shows a general disrespect for the rules in our home and disrespect for her. I am constantly having to remind them that they are not to hang out in her bedroom (that's her fault too). But it seems that he has no interest in socializing with her family, he just wants to show up and go "hide" somewhere with her. He shows up without calling first, might seem weird, but that is one that bugs me. He calls late at night, middle of the night and wakes her up. In a fight they had earlier this summer, he threatened to kill himself if she broke up with him.

Anyway, yesterday he stepped WAY over the line. He had planned on coming to visit her later this week. We found out that a cousin from out of town is going to come and stay overnight that day, and I told her that she would have to cancel on this boy and spend the day with her cousin, we only see her a few times a year. He went ABSOLUTELY berserk!! I was sitting right next to her and could hear most of it. He yelled at her for about 15 min., totally out of control. Basically, he said that he is sick of us always ruining his plans (he lives out of town and drives here). If things come up, we make them plan to visit another day, you bet. We are adults, We don't plan our lives around a 17 year old boyfriend. He then went on to tell her that we (her parents) don't show him enough respect.
He bends over backwards for us, according to him, because a couple of times when they ran into town they stopped and picked up milk for me (I paid for it, so he can't claim he did). So he feels that we should feel that we owe him. So, I guess he was very upset that we messed up his plans with all he has done for us!!(ha-ha) When she finally got tired of being yelled at, she hung up on him. His response was to text message her and say "Who do you think you are to hang up on me? You just f***ed up big time!!" (Now like I said there have been fights like this in the past, but I think this was the worst, this is the only one I witnessed. ) She decided not to talk to him for a while, he then proceeded to call here for 3 hours straight. When they did talk again later in the evening, he just wanted to forget the whole thing. She told him that if they are to stay together he needs to change, he says he doesn't think he can and that maybe she needs to change too.

I'm sorry this has got so long, I will wrap it up now. I told her that they need to break up and he needs some professional help. He seems to have some major anger problems, and I think that this emotional abuse could turn physical. Am I over-reacting? She is thinking of giving him "one last chance". (I would never let them go anywhere alone now.) If she doesn't break up with him willingly, I will probably have to force her to for her own good. I would welcome any advice that anyone can give. Thanks, rsmiller

Hi, rsmiller and welcome.
I think your daughter's boyfriend has serious anger issues and you are right, she needs to break up with him. He is obsessed with her, and he doesn't know how to have a normal relationship. It's not normal for him to yell at her like that and not even apologise. And the fact that he said he can't change and she needs to change is messed up. He's the abuser.
This will turn in to physical abuse soon, in my opinion.
My advice to you is to not treat her like a child. It will make things worse. She will continue with this or at least want to just becouse she will feel like someone is telling her what to do and she won't like that.
Your daughter has feelings and a mind of her own and you have to make her see why this guy is wrong for her. Try to convince her by talking to her like she is your equal.

rsmiller wrote:This is my first post, so first I just want to say "hello".

Hello!

rsmiller wrote:I have a 15 year old daughter that has been going out with a 17 year old boy. First they started out as just good friends, then ended up boyfriend/girlfriend. The 2-year age difference does bother me a bit, just because I feel a 17 year old boy has more freedom than we are willing to give our 15 year old daughter, we have kept her on a "very short leash" with him.

I understand keeping the "very short leash" especially if your daughter is "daddy's little girl" or "mom's best friend" as I'm not going to assume what gender you are, as I don't believe you said it. Anyways, that's natural that parents do that, especially if the boy is older. When I went out with my best friend we knew her dad would totally wig out on us, so we never told him, and her mom knew and was fine with it. Now I'm not saying they're not close, I'm just saying that she trusted me as well. If you don't have a high trust for the lad, then I understand your "keeping a short leash" especially if you think she is being emotionally abused.

rsmiller wrote:Lately, I am seeing signs that make me believe that he is emotionally abusive towards her. I don't think he was at first (they've been a "couple" for about 8 months). I really liked him before, but lately I am liking him less and less. There are the things that I know I don't like about him (and sometimes I say that I should loosen up, he is just a kid, maybe I'm too critical). But there is also something else that bothers me about him, but I can't quite put my finger on it. You know how you sometimes get that feeling?

I see, I see. What kinds of signs? Does she cry sometimes when you think she shouldn't be? Does she seem to have a lower self esteem than she used to? These are just a few signs, not all of them. I see you're not liking him as much as you did at first. And no you should not loosen up, a lot of times he may "be a kid" in your eyes, but really he's an adult mentally pretty much. Maybe not a good one, but one nonetheless. That's the sign that there /is/ something wrong, when you can't put your finger on it. Something's telling you there's something wrong.

rsmiller wrote:It's just that he seems too clingy, The text messages (yes, I snoop)
just don't seem appropriate for a 17 year old (really heavy stuff). Every single day it's things like: I could never live without you, I would die without you, you're the air I breathe and the water I drink, I will be with you forever; sappy stuff like that, might seem sort of romantic, but it's a constant thing, seems a little creepy (like he's obsessed).

I dated my best friend about a year ago, and I was rather "clingy" but I didn't say I'd die without her or she's the air I breathe or whatever. However I did always say sappy romantic stuff. It's just what we kind of do, seeing as we love them so much. But from what you say, you should definately be concerned. He seems kind of obsessed.

rsmiller wrote:My daughter has been telling me lately that he has some anger issues. When things don't go his way he will holler and scream at her over the phone. If he's upset about something that doesn't even involve her, he still gets angry with her. She has confronted him on this and he tells her "Well, if you're going to make it in life, you had better learn to deal with people "yelling" at you, everyone does it when they're upset!" That shows me that he doesn't care how he treats her. I've explained to her that your enemies yell at you, those who say they love you don't yell at you.

Okay, so he has anger issues. You just need to check on her and him sometimes, and tell him to seek help. I believe you did, but I'm not sure. I don't necessary holler and scream, but I do get angry. I don't want to worry you, but you need to get him help, he needs it, he has serious anger issues that could end up or could be hurting your daughter. Now what you say isn't necessarily true as I've hurt a very close friend to me by yelling some things to her. However, it depends how frequently he does it.

rsmiller wrote:Also, he just shows a general disrespect for the rules in our home and disrespect for her. I am constantly having to remind them that they are not to hang out in her bedroom (that's her fault too). But it seems that he has no interest in socializing with her family, he just wants to show up and go "hide" somewhere with her. He shows up without calling first, might seem weird, but that is one that bugs me. He calls late at night, middle of the night and wakes her up. In a fight they had earlier this summer, he threatened to kill himself if she broke up with him.

He probably thinks you are just trying to "bring them down, and you don't want them to have fun" and the disrespect for her is no good. Since they hang out in her bedroom, then it could be him convincing her. He wants to go "hide" with her probably because he doesn't want you guys "ruining their fun." Ohhh no. That's just totally rude. It bugs me too, I called everytime I went to her house. He could just need her too much, like I need some of my friends too much. He could be going through something very harmful to his mental status. But if your daughter is being emotionally abused, she should probably break up with him, if he suicides it's really his fault for doing something so drastic and stupid. Just make sure you protect her after, as a lot of times they go after the one that broke up with them too.

rsmiller wrote:Anyway, yesterday he stepped WAY over the line. He had planned on coming to visit her later this week. We found out that a cousin from out of town is going to come and stay overnight that day, and I told her that she would have to cancel on this boy and spend the day with her cousin, we only see her a few times a year. He went ABSOLUTELY berserk!! I was sitting right next to her and could hear most of it. He yelled at her for about 15 min., totally out of control. Basically, he said that he is sick of us always ruining his plans (he lives out of town and drives here). If things come up, we make them plan to visit another day, you bet. We are adults, We don't plan our lives around a 17 year old boyfriend. He then went on to tell her that we (her parents) don't show him enough respect.

It kind of hurts when our plans get broken with the one we love, but it's not like he always makes plans and they get broken. Look this is wrong, he should not have gone beserk. Umm if I may ask, what plans? From what you've told me he doesn't make plans too often. You show him too much respect in my opinion. He has not respected you so he deserves no respect. Respect and trust is earned, not given.

rsmiller wrote:He bends over backwards for us, according to him, because a couple of times when they ran into town they stopped and picked up milk for me (I paid for it, so he can't claim he did). So he feels that we should feel that we owe him. So, I guess he was very upset that we messed up his plans with all he has done for us!!(ha-ha)

Okay, sometimes I'd bend over backwards for my girlfriend's mom or parents or whatever, but I mean that's coming over her and comforting her at 9pm on a school night with homework left to do that I couldn't do over at her house 'cause I had to help her, and so I didn't get home til like, 10 o'clock at night and I'm already tired. So what he does is just a piece of cake. It's like "oh since your out can you get some milk?" and stuff like that. It's not like he goes totally out of his way.

rsmiller wrote:When she finally got tired of being yelled at, she hung up on him. His response was to text message her and say "Who do you think you are to hang up on me? You just f***ed up big time!!" (Now like I said there have been fights like this in the past, but I think this was the worst, this is the only one I witnessed. ) She decided not to talk to him for a while, he then proceeded to call here for 3 hours straight. When they did talk again later in the evening, he just wanted to forget the whole thing. She told him that if they are to stay together he needs to change, he says he doesn't think he can and that maybe she needs to change too.

Um alright. If this was recent, which I believe this is, you /need/ to protect her. This is bad. He is getting worse and worse everyday from what your post pretty much says, and he needs help. Get him help. Um, yeah he needs to change but your daughter? Nah, she seems fine.

rsmiller wrote:I'm sorry this has got so long, I will wrap it up now. I told her that they need to break up and he needs some professional help. He seems to have some major anger problems, and I think that this emotional abuse could turn physical. Am I over-reacting? She is thinking of giving him "one last chance". (I would never let them go anywhere alone now.) If she doesn't break up with him willingly, I will probably have to force her to for her own good. I would welcome any advice that anyone can give. Thanks, rsmiller

It's okay that it was long, I know how it is when you try to get everything out. You are /not/ over reacting. This is serious. That one last chance might end up hurting her and this is good that you don't let them go alone. I know, but she's going to hate you for it probably for awhile, but then maybe, maybe, thank you later. It's a 50/50 chance you're taking. You should actually be totally sure that he is emotionally abusing her before you force them to break up.

Welcome to the forum...

I know how difficult it can be with daughters sometime; I have two of my own.

The advice before has been pretty solid and I would only like to add a possible resource for you. Try contacting your local womens/family crisis center and see if you can find someone there, either a counselor or a forumerly abused woman, who can talk to your daughter about what is going on between her and her boyfriend.

She sounds like she is sympathetic to him and is trying to "redeem" him. This is a common dynamic between the abuser and their "victim."

Also be very aware of his age...when does he turn 18? The is the statutory age in most states, but in some it is 17. Be sure that you explore that realm as well.

Good luck...

N.

I don't think this boy's behavior is completely healthy - the raging and threats are the most concerning. He does seem to have some obsessive and controlling aspects to his "love" for your daughter and that is concerning. As for wanting to "hide out" with her and not wanting to socialize with the family when he's visiting, I strongly feel this is normal teenaged behavior especially in a romantic relationship -- it's a necessary step in separation and individuation. But he does need to respect the rules of your house like not hanging out in her bedroom or calling before he comes over. (By the way, is there any other area of the house besides her room they could have alone time that is less risky?)

My suspicion is that he has some serious family dysfunctions which have lead to some unhealthy attitudes and behaviors. The obsessiveness and raging is what really tips me off strongly in this direction -- it's very common in children if one or both of the parents suffers from mental illness, destructive narcissism or substance abuse. You could step back from your concern for your daughter and see if your parental radar is picking up that this boy is being abused (not just being an abuser... he learned this behavior from someone!). Since your daughter has told him they can't continue the relationship unless he gets help, maybe you can support them both by helping him get professional help.

It's good to protect your children and set appropriate boundaries so they don't get hurt... however, I read a few boundary violations of your own (the snooping in her text messages and eavesdropping on their conversations). I know it's hard to let your kids make thier own grown up decisions when you don't think or feel they're grown up enough to make them, but they are going to have to learn sometime so it's best to support them and keep good boundaries or else they'll learn that blurred boundaries are ok and they'll be vulnerable in the future. Help your daughter if she asks for it, but treat her with respect and support so she learns how to make good decisions. Respecting boundaries and supporting good decision-making also includes let her decide who she wants to spend time with - her boyfriend or her cousin regardless of what you want or expect her to do.

In the meantime, discuss your concerns with her because this relationship could turn physically violent quickly. Do what you think is reasonable to protect her and keep her safe, but make sure she's involved and understands why you're setting the limits. If she sees you're doing this out of concern for her safety and not just because you're the parent and you said so, she's more likely to come to you with problems she can't quite handle in the future.

Thanks for the replies to my post. You all make very good points. I was pretty angry with the situation when I posted yesterday. It has done a lot of good to read your comments and see the problem from different viewpoints.

I absolutely agree that her boyfriend has either been abused himself or comes from a dysfunctional family (or maybe both). He has told me himself that his younger brother struggles with drugs. My daughter has also mentioned that his parents discuss divorce off and on. He also has an older brother who is sick with brain cancer (Has had it for about a year). I know those things are all big stresses for him. But, he has used those things against her. He blames his rages against her on those things sometimes. My husband and I were discussing it this morning and I think he definitely has an unhealthy need to be always number one with her. Some more examples: My husband took our daughter to a father/daughter hockey game this past winter. Her boyfriend called her on her cell phone while they were at the game. He was pretty upset that she was at the game with her dad, not sure why. Another one, the 4th of July is the one time of the year that my husband's side of the family all gets together, it's an every year thing. We all go to my husband's parent's cabin for 2-3 days. This past 4th, her boyfriend was told that he was welcome to come out and spend time at the cabin (he lives only 10 min. from there). His plan was to pick her up 2 of the 3 days and go do "their own thing". The first day, we said it was fine to go ahead and go visit with his friends and family. The second day he showed up to pick her up and I said "No, she also needs to have time with her relatives." He was upset over this (I found out later). I did say he was welcome to stay though. He did until we made him leave around midnight that night. After the holiday was over and we got back home, he then told my daughter how upset he was that her grandparents didn't seem to respect him enough, with all he had helped them (little odd jobs, like helping take out trash while he was there). He was mad that he couldn't stay even later. I see a pattern, when things don't work his way he gets angry and claims he gets no respect, same thing he said about my husband and I (as I said in my first post). These are just a couple of examples I've been giving some thought to.

I'm no head doctor and don't claim to be, but after thinking about it, I'm guessing maybe he doesn't feel accepted or respected enough at home or maybe he hasn't got enough attention. He's obviously looking for something he's not getting. I do agree he needs some help. And I do care about him, he has 2 sides. A very sweet side, and a very angry side. I do want to see him get some help.

I had a long talk with my daughter last night. Instead of talking down to her, I put her on my level. She has asked him to make changes in the past, and she says that she honestly doesn't think he will change, he's tried. I explained to her that is why he needs professional help. She also says she doesn't know if she can go through with breaking up as she's very attached. But she knows she can't continue with this kind of situation. I know where she's coming from, it's hard. I think he is coming to sit and talk with her tonight. I am going to try and discuss this with him also and let him know that we think he needs help because we care. wish me luck!!

Good luck, rsmiller! It's good that you're putting your daughter on your level and that she understands.
I really hope the talk goes well and he can find some help.

Hope everything goes well with the discussion with your daughter and her BF and that he'll let you two support himself in getting help. It's a tough situation all around and you're doing an admirable thing realizing he's still that great sweet guy under all the pain... I hope he can work through whatever is causing him to act out. Congrats on your talk with your daughter, I'm so glad things went well with that since I know it's a difficult and sensitive topic.

Hope all goes well. My best wishes to you.

Wow! I can't believe it's been 5 months since I was last here. Anyway, here's how it went with my daughters abusive EX-boyfriend, yup I said EX! I am so glad they broke up for good because things never did get better, but I do hope he eventually gets help for his own sake.
Here's how it went: Last time I was here, my daughter and I had talked to him about getting help for his rages. They both thought it was a good idea and figured chances were they would get back together sooner later but would be friends for now, the plan being that they would give it time. They continued to talk on the phone, but were not permitted to see each other. Things were pretty rocky off and on with just the phone relationship. My daughter has just as many friends who are boys as girls and anytime the ex found out she was was hanging out with a boy he became insanely jealous (even though they were just friends at that time).
Well, on Christmas Eve he gave her a call on her cell phone, in the middle of our whole family get-together (angry that she was watching a movie with a boy the day before). In the middle of all of his ranting and raving, he said to her "Why don't you just go and F*** every boy in your town, slut!" (You see, he had talked her into sex when they were going out and was now throwing it in her face.) That was the final straw with her. She told him that if he ever calls her again she would file for a restraining order. Now I'm not sure what kind of behavior would warrant a restraining order, but he is 18 now, she's 16. I would think repeated unwanted calls from an 18 year old would warrant a restraining order. He hasn't called since, so hopefully we won't have to find out. We will wait and see how things go this summer, he says he's going to the tech school in our town next fall and will be moving here this summer. When she made the restraining order threat, told her that he's sure they will run into each other all the time when he moves here. I wouldn't think so, our town isn't so small that you know everyone. It's a town of about 20,000, I know lots of people that I never just bump into. I think if he sees her around too much I will just call it stalking.
I did find out that when I stopped pushing for her to stop talking to him, she slowly lost interest in him, then with his bad attitude he took care of the rest. I do hope someday he will realize how bad he needs help, but he will have to do that for himself (he had tried counseling for a while, but decided it was a waste of time). My daughter does have a new boyfriend ( I know 16 year old girls and boyfriends!!) But, we do like this boy, he is so different from the last one. He doesn't ever try to avoid us parents; he takes her out or just hangs around the house, instead of hiding in her bedroom with her; he doesn't badmouth her family. But most of all, she is happy. I could always tell when she was talking to the ex again, because her attitude went from happy to depressed and annoyed with everything. It's such a nice difference!