At my wits end

New to this, hope someone can help. Have been with my wife for 4 and a half years. From the start, I noticed that she is quite controlling, and incredibly jealous. She frequently accuses me of ogling other women ( not), and says I cannot be trusted because I will cheat on her. ( happens more when she drinks). She is now jealous of the time I spend with my 14 year old daughter, and is insisting I spend less time with her. Over the last 4 years, my previous friends have fallen away ( of two couples that I hung out with, she has accused me of checking out one of the wives, and the other she does not want me contacting as my spouse " doesn't trust her" although she is married to a very good friend of mine, and we have known each other for over 10 years. I don't cheat, I don't look at women. That is for sure. Now when we go out anywhere I look the other way from any attractive women, as my spouse told me to do to avoid confrontation. When I question her about this, explaining that I would not cheat, or don't ogle women, she replies that " you just make me feel that way". In addition to this, she has tried to tell me how to dress, what to eat, what kind of wine I should drink, how I should do my hair, how sex should be, how I should be brushing my teeth, not to snack before supper.... All with the explanation that if I do these things, it will " please her". For over three years, I did not rock the boat, but for the last six months I have been starting to stand up more. I notice now, she drinks to excess ( 7 or 8 bottles of wine a week), and she gets upset and baits me into an argument when drinking. Usually saying that I check out women, or that I am easily approachable by other women, and this is the reason I do not go out to bars or other places, because I do not trust myself. she now has started telling me that I am enjoying " live porn" with the women I look at, and it is disrespectful to her. When I do stand up to her on anything, she appears to completely lose it, and acts very irrational.... Almost as if she doesn't know how to process the fact that I disagreed with her. I haven't spoken to anyone about this stuff until now, because it all seemed very normal. She started out as the most caring, loving partner I could imagine, but it almost seems that since she now knows I am committed, things have changed. Sex used to be great, now she uses it to get what she wants. Affection was plentiful, now I get it after I giver her something she is asking for. Was told that if I don't start spending less time with my daughter, and more with her, we wont be together. ( Nice choice). Just wondering what I am dealing with..

It could be all sorts of things. The important thing is keeping yourself safe and sane in dealing with it. Al-Anon might be a starting point if you have a meeting locally. Whether or not the alcohol is the only factor in play. Other people there will be able to relate and support.

It's a very difficult thing to do. Without causing a meltdown. But is it possible to talk about this at all with her close family? Or someone else you can trust? Again, in terms of getting support for yourself.

Or else counselling? This is just my opinion. So please treat it with common sense. I'm no expert. But I think couples counselling could be a bad thing. They can tend to assume a starting place of equal blame. Which means you would spend a lot of time trying to become "better." While she's not changing at all. It can even make the abuse worse. Whereas 1 to 1 counselling. Will listen to you and focus on supporting you. However you want to take things forward. That seems more positive to me overall.

How she's treating you isn't fair. It isn't loving. And you deserve better than that. I don't know whether it's something that you can resolve together. Or whether there's a more difficult choice coming up. But this isn't imaginary or over blown. It does seem to me there's a problem. And it is a hard one to deal with.

Thank you so much for the reply. Was just wondering if anyone else has seen something like this. What it seems like, is that she has the need to run me down, just to control my behavior. It was brought to my attention last evening, and something I didn't really notice ( again, in it everyday) that she continually boasts about her past accomplishments in life. What starts as a conversation about something with a child matter, somehow turns out to be her lecturing us on what she has done in life, how great an athlete she was, dated the best looking guys in school, how much she has travelled, etc etc etc. It seems odd that she does this, and a short time later she is telling me that because I am in good shape, while she isn't so much, that I will eventually leave her for someone younger ( I'm 47, she's 49) who is more fit and energetic. It's bizarre, she tells me how great she is, and how bad I am, and then tells me I will leave her. Its almost as if she is trying to tell me what I am thinking....... And rationalizing or telling her she is mistaken DOES NOT HELP. I think at the time, she really believes what she is saying. Too much conviction to be made up.

Help??

I want to apologise for my quote below.

Ada wrote:But I think couples counselling could be a bad thing. They can tend to assume a starting place of equal blame.

On thinking about it. I didn't mean "equal blame." But equal responsibility for improving things. I don't want to give the impression that counsellors are there to judge. But that IS part of the risk I see. That where most of the responsibility for change SHOULD be on one person. Trying to treat both partners equally can simply be extending the abuse.

Thank you for your reply.

We did go to one counselling session at my request. It cost me just over $100 to listen to my wife speak for 45 minutes out of the hour session. The counsellor actually interrupted her at one point, and said" can you let him speak please". The entire session was about her, not about us. The only thing that I even got to mention was the fact of my wife insisting that she be allowed to control my manner of dress, and diet. The counsellor suggested this may not be acceptable behavior, at which point my wife took over the conversation again about what her problems are, and that she is feeling " overwhelmed". It appears that she understands that she is losing the control over me that she once had, and it really is pushing her over the edge somehow.....

I'm not surprised you're struggling and feeling bewildered..

I have very much seen someone like this.. I was unfortunate enough to have my mother act like this.
I'll leave out the damage she did to her children but the behaviour you describe from your wife is the behaviour my mother exhibited towards her husband.
Eventually, she forced him to cut off contact with his own child from a past relationship.
She has to be in control 100% of the time or she feels insecure and if she feels insecure.. I may as well go live in the middle of a volcano.. it's calmer and safer.

While I don't have any fantastic advice if you want to stay with her other than to perhaps try counselling again.. it's super important that the counsellor can see the real situation - you sound like the one you already tried could actually be a really good fit if your wife is able to go back.
I have a thought that some personal/individual cbt.. maybe dbt or something alongside couples counselling could be helpful for your wife.

What did you say to your wife about spending less time with your daughter.? to me it sounds like your wife sees your daughter as competition and a serious threat to her.. this may be fixable if you can get your wife to spend time with your daughter and you. If they can build a relationship then your wife will settle down and accept your own need to spend time with her.
One thing that i don't want to make you worry with but i do need to mention is that if you're leaving your daughter alone with your wife at any point, please keep a really close eye on your daughters mood and emotional state afterwards.
Your wife may be fine with her in person and be able to separate her personal feelings from her behaviour towards your daughter but this has the potential to turn abusive towards your daughter.

xx

So good to hear from someone. My wife insists that a counsellor will not help, and that if she goes, it will only be for herself. Nothing to do with us as a couple. From my daughters standpoint, she lives with us, and my wife has accused my daughter of stealing from her. ( 3 tanktops that would not fit my daughter whatsoever, and my daughter has more clothes than she can wear) My wife has been getting more and more snippy towards my daughter, although I haven't seen abuse. She now has stopped referring to my daughter by name, and refers to her as " your daughter".... She also will nitpick to me every small thing my daughter does ( major blowup over a few dishes left in bedroom), shortly after I informed my wife that I would be prepared to negotiate a little less time away from my daughter ( 3 weekends out of a month with her mom), instead of every weekend that my wife wanted, I got a text shortly after that read " Maybe you should move out, and get a nest for you and your daughter). It seems the more I defy her, the more she turns up the pressure using all different tactics. Frustrating.

-- Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:56 am --

Funny that you should mention their interaction. My wife complains to me that my daughter comes home from school ( just her and my wife until I get home 1.5 hours later) goes to her room, doesn't interact much with my wife, and only really " comes alive " when I get home. The sad part is.... My daughter really does adore my wife, and wants badly to bond with her. However, my wife doesn't even see or want to acknowledge this.

I grew up in a alternative kind of ... well. It was a cult really. Anyway, I have known an awful lot of these women. They are awful. They will bring you down to a stub of a human being with a choke hold on your good intentions, and step over you on their way to their next victim, which is your kids, and when those are grown and flee, these creatins find other peoples kids or younger women to "mentor" into victims. They are power hungry, self loathing monsters who poison the joy out of everyone around them with guilt, fear, emotional blackmail, and control.

Leave her, and go make a happy life for you and your daughter. She won't change. Ever. My mom is way older than her, and she has no intention of ever changing. She still thinks that she is right, and all four of her kids turned into self harming, drug addicted, teen parent, divorced, and messed up adults because WE were just awful kids, and wouldn't listen to her. Maybe we were awful. I am pretty sure I wasn't always awful though. Hearing that stuff about how my dad spent too much time with me and never pays attention to her really does take a huge toll on a kid though. No daughter wants to feel like their relationship with their dad is somehow inappropriate, or hurtful to other people they love. Especially when we have no control over it. Now I have kids of my own, and let me tell you, it is not easy trying to re-learn what a parent SHOULD be as I am trying to be one. At 14, your daughter needs you. And she REALLY needs a good female role model as well, which your wife is failing miserably at. Go! Be Free!
To quote Jack Tempchin:
"Well I know it wasn't you who held me down
Heaven knows it wasn't you who set me free
So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains
And we never even know we have the key"

sarahwpen... Thank you for the " no pulling punches" reply. It helps to drive things home for me. Which I desperately need right now. The strangest thing though, is that for the longest time, my wife treated my daughter almost too well, as she did with me. My daughter came to live with us initially ( about 2 hours from my daughters biological mother) at my wife's urging. I believe now that my wife did this, as she was afraid that I would move back closer to my daughter to help her since she was struggling with several issues while residing with her mother full time. It is funny that you mention other victims.... My wife has two children from her first marriage ( her first husband left her after 20 years due to her controlling nature), and these children who are now older, are spending more and more time away from her, and have asked me on several occasions to intervene in their mothers controlling behaviors towards them. It seems that when the two older ones started to migrate away from her, my daughter and I became subject to more control tactics, sometimes bordering on ridiculous.

I am very sorry to hear about what you are experiencing, but I do understand how upsetting and frustrating it is when a person you love seems to change drastically, going from someone who was so very warm and loving to someone cold and distrustful, even cruel, when they constantly cut you down and make you feel worthless. I have been there. You may be questioning yourself, wondering if you could do more, wondering if you have somehow let her down, and trying to do all you can, hoping that it will make her love you the way she once did, and be the way she used to be with you.

I do not know her, so I cannot say what may be the problem, but in my own experience, the person I loved and who changed was suffering from deep personality disorders (mental illness), which only became clear to me after our relationship ended and I went for counselling because I could not make any sense of what had happened. Describing the words and behaviour of this person to a psychologist helped to shed so much light on the situation, because the psychologist had heard it all before.

Eventually, it became clear that this person I had loved had always been like that with others -- loving and compassionate at first, but becoming hateful over time. It took me a long time to realize that I had not done anything wrong, and that this person stopped loving me not because of who I was, but because of who they were. In my case, this person pushed me out of their life (and I have not seen them since), quite against my wishes, because I wanted so much to make it work, to fix whatever had gone wrong, because I loved this person will all my heart. But I could not fix things, because it had nothing to do with me.

So, perhaps you should think about going to the counsellor by yourself, to share what you have been experiencing and feeling. It might at least give you some insight into what might be going on with your wife, and help you to see that what you are feeling is probably a normal reaction to the very abnormal behaviours that you have been subjected to. The problem with going to counselling with your wife is that, as I have learned, certain personality disorders are such that the person who has them does not think that there is anything wrong with them, and if that is the case, there really is nothing that can be done to change them. They will simply leave a trail of broken people in their wake as they go through life hurting others and yet feeling that they are without blame.

There is probably not going to be a happy ending, and so I will not suggest otherwise. It is a sad and painful thing to love a person who becomes incapable of loving you back. I am sorry.