Indirect emotional abuse? *NON - May Trigger *

Hey.
So...I'm not really sure how to write this, but I'll try my best...

I suspect my girlfriend might have BPD, but she doesn't get that "rage" that seems to common with others. Anyway, I'm not sure if that's the case, or if she's being indirectly emotionally abusive. She's been very depressed lately, and says it's a combination of things ranging from our fighting and the situation with her mother.

I don't even know where to begin, everything has been so confusing lately. I've talked with friends and family, and sometimes I'm afraid that I'm misrepresenting things to make myself look good. But yet I think there are still indistinguishable facts that cannot be misrepresented. For example: Let's say I have a time set 3 weeks in advance that I planned on meeting some friends, and I let my SO know about this as soon as I do. As the meeting draws near and I remind her, she becomes overly depressed (when she had been fine the weeks before) and even somewhat suicidal. She said recently it was sparked by abuse from her mother. I thought I remembered her saying she was depressed because I would rather spend time with friends than with her, though. Again, I could be wrong.

Now, on the one hand, I understand dropping plans for your SO and being there when it really counts. However, there has been a history of instances where she became upset that I'd rather be with my friends than with her, when I usually only spend 4-5 hours a month with my friends, and the rest of my time is either work, sleep, or her (unless she's at church, school, or errands she's roped into by her family) -- Her argument is that given a choice, she'd spend all her time with me, but that she's forced by her family to do these other things, whereas I'm choosing my activities over her instead of them being forced upon me. I feel like that isn't fair.

I was also accused of being less affectionate than I once was, but to be honest, it's been hard to exhibit much affection when I'm trying to support her alone through depression. It's emotionally exhausting when all I have for support are my parents for a limited amount of time each day and my therapist every other week, and maybe some friends online. Is it reasonable to suspect/feel isolation? I expressed this concern to her, and she said she doesn't want me to be isolated from friends and family - and I know she likes my parents - but that she wants special attention while she's so depressed and sick feeling. But it seems like there's a crisis when I'm about to go somewhere. I don't know if that's just my own fears of being in an abusive relationship being projected onto reality, or if it is a reality/red flag.

There's more, but I'm not sure I can write effectively at the moment.

I have behaved like your girlfriend, in relationships in my early 20s. For me, it probably wasn't BPD and it wasn't intentional emotional abuse. Nor can I explain it now, or suggest an effective method for handling it purely based on having been there. I only mean that it might be a more common behaviour than within a PD framing.

I do think it's important not to drop your plans for her on a regular basis. Otherwise it perpetuates this pattern that she just has to "seem upset" and she'll get what she wants [your undivided attention]. Her partner being away is not life-threatening, or relationship-threatening. It's healthy for BOTH of you to be with other people from time to time. I think it's usually unhealthy to make one person the centre of the world and she does need to find some ways to avoid doing that with you.

Is she getting professional help for her depression? It's not OK for her to use you as a therapist / emergency service. As you say, it's exhausting and shifts the power-balance in the relationship away from romantic to therapeutic. Not fun for either of you.

Thanks for your reply

Everyone I talk to seems to say the same thing; that it's OK for me to do the things that I want to do with other people. It's rather confusing for me to do this, though, because I would also say that in a relationship, your SO is also the most important person in your life. So how does one strike this balance?

Also, she seems to think that if I don't drop my plans that I'm being inconsiderate and not very compassionate of her "sickness." I feel like every time I leave the house (which isn't often, except for work; although, she used to become upset over me leaving for work shortly after I actually managed to land my current job, but not anymore) she becomes depressed and says tons of different suicidal things and has self-destructive behaviors.

She is getting professional treatment, but doesn't seem to be very open or comfortable with her therapist.

twowiki wrote:Everyone I talk to seems to say the same thing; that it's OK for me to do the things that I want to do with other people. It's rather confusing for me to do this, though, because I would also say that in a relationship, your SO is also the most important person in your life. So how does one strike this balance?

"Most important" doesn't have to mean "spend 24hrs a day with". The balance as I see it is in YOU being happy. Which seems counter-intuitive, given that you obviously want to make HER as happy as possible. The problem is that she isn't terribly healthy here. If she was, then making you as happy as possible might be her prime goal, matching yours. She'd then have more balance herself over when she really wanted to see you and when it was absolutely fine for you to hang out with friends or do anything not involving her. It puts you in a difficult position because you're trying to find that healthy balance for both of you, since she's not able to contribute at the moment.

Also, she seems to think that if I don't drop my plans that I'm being inconsiderate and not very compassionate of her "sickness." I feel like every time I leave the house (which isn't often, except for work; although, she used to become upset over me leaving for work shortly after I actually managed to land my current job, but not anymore) she becomes depressed and says tons of different suicidal things and has self-destructive behaviors.

Thinking of the "healthy balance" again, you probably need MORE time away from her in order to recharge your batteries and continue being supportive and loving. It's like a little like helping a drowning person. If you try to grab on and support them, the thrashing and panic is very likely to pull you under water too. A better way to help is to find a lifebelt or piece of wood to give them [for her, this role might be filled by her therapist and any other work she's doing herself]. And then help them to shore using that. It's very unlikely you can explain it like this to her though. Because when you're drowning, you just want to hold tightly onto ANYTHING that might help. Here though, it's not helping her to have a healthy relationship when she can emotionally blackmail you [however unintentionally] into being around constantly.

In practical terms, I would think if she continues to cling, she'll smother the relationship and your feelings for her. And then the abandonment she's afraid of will be inevitable. So although it's SUPER-HARD for both of you, being out of the house from time to time is basically essential. And when she's in a healthier place, she will hopefully understand that and share in the balancing herself.

She is getting professional treatment, but doesn't seem to be very open or comfortable with her therapist.

Is that because she's afraid of what she has to tackle? Which might be understandable. Or a bad relationship with the therapist because they're not very good? It can be hard to unpick the two. Very easy to displace anger and fear about the therapy process onto the therapist themself.

Ada wrote:"Most important" doesn't have to mean "spend 24hrs a day with". The balance as I see it is in YOU being happy. Which seems counter-intuitive, given that you obviously want to make HER as happy as possible. The problem is that she isn't terribly healthy here. If she was, then making you as happy as possible might be her prime goal, matching yours. She'd then have more balance herself over when she really wanted to see you and when it was absolutely fine for you to hang out with friends or do anything not involving her. It puts you in a difficult position because you're trying to find that healthy balance for both of you, since she's not able to contribute at the moment.

Thinking of the "healthy balance" again, you probably need MORE time away from her in order to recharge your batteries and continue being supportive and loving. It's like a little like helping a drowning person. If you try to grab on and support them, the thrashing and panic is very likely to pull you under water too. A better way to help is to find a lifebelt or piece of wood to give them [for her, this role might be filled by her therapist and any other work she's doing herself]. And then help them to shore using that. It's very unlikely you can explain it like this to her though. Because when you're drowning, you just want to hold tightly onto ANYTHING that might help. Here though, it's not helping her to have a healthy relationship when she can emotionally blackmail you [however unintentionally] into being around constantly.

In practical terms, I would think if she continues to cling, she'll smother the relationship and your feelings for her. And then the abandonment she's afraid of will be inevitable. So although it's SUPER-HARD for both of you, being out of the house from time to time is basically essential. And when she's in a healthier place, she will hopefully understand that and share in the balancing herself.

Good points. While we talk about wanting to make each other happy, I do feel like she could be more supportive and understanding with this aspect. She says I'm being mean to a "clearly sick individual" when I ask for that.

I've mentioned things like that to her (above) as well as that I need support from my close friends and family if she expects me to help her. I can't take care of her if I'm not taking care of myself. I've heard that analogy as well, and that I can't go diving in after her or I'll be in trouble myself. That's what I'm trying to do - provide the life-line without jumping in after her - but she feels like I'm being uncaring or more concerned about myself/my emotions than her/hers. Maybe I really am being mean and not being caring enough. Although, I feel like it isn't healthy to doubt myself like that, so I'm trying not to let that get me down.

Also, she's commented several times that I seem to care more when she's injured herself, when I do care about her all the time. Things are frustrating, especially after the arguments and hurtful comments, and when she hurts herself, I have to put aside my frustration with all that, so in a way, it seems to get her what she wants (for me to be not frustrated temporarily, except I end up later becoming more frustrated and having semi-resentful thoughts that she's hurting herself to manipulate me) What do I do? I feel like giving her less attention when she hurts herself would be bad.

Is that because she's afraid of what she has to tackle? Which might be understandable. Or a bad relationship with the therapist because they're not very good? It can be hard to unpick the two. Very easy to displace anger and fear about the therapy process onto the therapist themself.

You know, I honestly don't know. I think she's just nervous/embarrassed to open up to her therapist.

twowiki wrote:That's what I'm trying to do - provide the life-line without jumping in after her - but she feels like I'm being uncaring or more concerned about myself/my emotions than her/hers. Maybe I really am being mean and not being caring enough. Although, I feel like it isn't healthy to doubt myself like that, so I'm trying not to let that get me down.

You're right, it isn't healthy to doubt yourself. What sucks is, there isn't a "right" answer. There isn't a "caring enough" test that you can grade yourself on how you are doing. And unfortunately your girlfriend isn't in a place where she can be objective about feedback. So you mainly have to look after yourself and be honest with yourself about what you can take on and what you can't [as you are doing.]

Also, she's commented several times that I seem to care more when she's injured herself, when I do care about her all the time. Things are frustrating, especially after the arguments and hurtful comments, and when she hurts herself, I have to put aside my frustration with all that, so in a way, it seems to get her what she wants (for me to be not frustrated temporarily, except I end up later becoming more frustrated and having semi-resentful thoughts that she's hurting herself to manipulate me) What do I do? I feel like giving her less attention when she hurts herself would be bad.

I don't know what to suggest, really. But perhaps have a look at this thread, which has a related situation? cutting-self-injury/topic104050.html and you could start a thread there yourself if you wanted further / more specific advice? If you feel like you're in a pattern with her hurting herself as a way to solve stress between the two of you, that does need to be broken. But I'd suggest getting some help with how best to tackle that.

I think she's just nervous/embarrassed to open up to her therapist.

I'm a fan of writing notes to therapists. Perhaps you could suggest that the two of you draft a list of issues. Or a Top 3 things to tackle first. Elsewhere I read the suggestion of a note saying "X bad thing happened, but I'm not ready to talk about it yet, but I want to get to that point with you." So the therapist knows what's underlying some of the issues that can be talked about. I can understand working through priorities with a therapist and not trying to "fix" everything immediately. But that should be a team effort. If she's not being open in the long-term, she's just not going to be getting as much out of therapy as she could be.

Which is another thing to consider. At the moment she knows what her relationship with you looks like, very caring and supportive, with the stress controllable [because she is able to provoke it.] She may feel that you wouldn't feel the same way about her if she didn't have these problems. This is a complete guess on my part. Absolutely no diagnosis or fact implied! But if it's the case, I think that might be difficult for her to resolve. Since it involves trust and openness again.


About getting better or not wanting to- cutting-self-injury/topic98570.html

PS. You weren't specific about how your gf was hurting herself, so I hope I'm not making uncomfortable assumptions by linking you to this particular forum. I hope it's not triggering to you in itself. I thought the thinking and reasoning might be relevant, rather than any specific description of self-harm.

I don't know what to suggest, really. But perhaps have a look at this thread, which has a related situation? cutting-self-injury/topic104050.html and you could start a thread there yourself if you wanted further / more specific advice? If you feel like you're in a pattern with her hurting herself as a way to solve stress between the two of you, that does need to be broken. But I'd suggest getting some help with how best to tackle that.

Thanks for the link, it was quite informative. It's this 'distancing yourself' they referred to in the thread, I feel, is what she thinks is uncaring - meaning...if I'm not "between her and the blade" (also referenced from that thread) it must mean that I just don't care.

I'm a fan of writing notes to therapists. Perhaps you could suggest that the two of you draft a list of issues. Or a Top 3 things to tackle first. Elsewhere I read the suggestion of a note saying "X bad thing happened, but I'm not ready to talk about it yet, but I want to get to that point with you." So the therapist knows what's underlying some of the issues that can be talked about. I can understand working through priorities with a therapist and not trying to "fix" everything immediately. But that should be a team effort. If she's not being open in the long-term, she's just not going to be getting as much out of therapy as she could be.

Good idea. I've recommended writing notes, and I do that myself, but it's great to hear more variations on the note thing, such as the "this happened, but I'm not ready to talk yet" one.

Which is another thing to consider. At the moment she knows what her relationship with you looks like, very caring and supportive, with the stress controllable [because she is able to provoke it.] She may feel that you wouldn't feel the same way about her if she didn't have these problems. This is a complete guess on my part. Absolutely no diagnosis or fact implied! But if it's the case, I think that might be difficult for her to resolve. Since it involves trust and openness again.

She actually feels the opposite -- that I only love and care for her when she's not sick. I think she has the perception of things being worse than they really are. Even before she was this way, I had a weak gut feeling that this was the case. Many of her friends she quit hanging out with because they were 'mean' or 'bad' to her. I mean, she has been abused and bullied in the past, but the situation with her friends was different I think. Am I making sense? I doubt it.

About getting better or not wanting to- cutting-self-injury/topic98570.html

PS. You weren't specific about how your gf was hurting herself, so I hope I'm not making uncomfortable assumptions by linking you to this particular forum. I hope it's not triggering to you in itself. I thought the thinking and reasoning might be relevant, rather than any specific description of self-harm.

That thread was rather alarming. It kinda depresses me, ironically enough. Thinking she might want to stay the way she is. But I don't think she's like that, as she's repeatedly wished she could be better for me and stop 'being so bad/mean' to me.

And I haven't been specific because it's a multitude of injuries.