New Here - wheres the cure :-)

Battle for which latches *onto* the surge. But how do you get brainstorms? The sight-intellect has latches on the surge. ???
It's just one way? the others *are modified by* the surge but the intellect can't be?
Why would that cause unregulated surges?

side note. Any psychosis that involves vision (by which I mean your definition of psychosis "imagining" visual impossibilities to be true) *are* in the realm of psycholgy. These are lies that need to be unlearned by the intellect. scary construct. That's your world.

Here's another construct I can't run. Turning this mechanism on later in development. I can't invent what it is like to have belief modified memories and then try to build a true world construct on top of it. It just seems that you would still accept them as true. That's why I doubt this construct - but I can't run it.

Ahh! Surge *associated* memories = belief . The other side of the disconnect!

great, multiple constructs pop up. This will be a while . . .

we treat all memories with the same amount of suspicion
Nothing really has more weight than anything else. If it has weight it is an unemotional calculation on the probable error.

If memories were associated with surges then they would "modify(?)" their validity? I'm not sure I should be out here. . .

Can you really spontaneously create memories (imagine) or only assosciate emotional surge to real memories.
Okay, okay. I can not work in here. The idea of spontaneous facts . . .

Cross associated memories would imply unique surges - how else could two or more unassociated events be identified as connected? Is that emotion?

It is that we can't differentiate surges?
ha! we don't connect it to the memory at all!\
But why would that cause an unregulated surge?
Maybe all our surges are the same so there isn't anything *to* differentiate?
Nope we have "imagination" in our other senses.

So.
We do have unique surges, proven by our other senses.
But we don't associate visual memories to any surge.
And we can't seem to regulate this lifelong series of unique surges.

Just these facts describes our behavior.
Am I done here?

ha! WE DON'T PRIORITIZE MEMORIES!

the delay!

The surge is building as we are slowly, wandering down the aisles of our memories.

Everyone else has prioritized memories and their surge is "answered" immediately.
Ours just builds and builds . . .

Eureka!

So I'm down to "we don't associate surges with visual memories".
And *this* describes our behavior.

Could you imagine a *trained* alexithymic?

Back to "post developmental"

I don't think you would unassociate previously associated memories.
You'd get stuck. Only the previous memories would have priority.

Though that might fit other datasets . . .

The intent was to narrow the definition of Alexithymia. I was appalled at what I found about it on the web, Biggest complaint was that people were taking a quiz and determining they were alexithymic. I *knew* it could be better defined than that

ScottV

[edit]
This makes sense but isn't correct - skip ahead for the correct answer or just keep following the logic, you'll get to the same place. [/edit]

Summary:

Alexithymia

The inability to associate emotional surges with visual information.
Or
Individuals who can't prioritize visual memory

From there all the characteristic of an alexithymic follows.

Humans have unique emotional surges constantly. They start small and build as an emotional event is stretched out. We use the signature of the surges to tag information as it goes into our memories so that we can quickly access memories that match tags similar to past events.
We alexis only tag tactile, olfactory, aural, and taste(?) information. The visual tags don't stick.
In a normal event the average person's (feelers') surge ends quickly as they find the prioritized data they were looking for. Alexithyimcs surges run out of control while they're minds eye is out looking for unprioritized memories. Wandering through the stacks . Different individuals have different delay times. During long delay times emotions can build out of control. The more unknown the event the longer it can take to find associated visual information and get the emotional surge under control. The more emotional the other senses deem the event the faster the surge will build.
The other four senses have their tags and can react before our brain can find the visual information. The sense that screams the loudest takes over the rising emotional surge. Usually tactile can scream the loudest That's somatic, pain, motor control and some glands(?).

I'm fortunate enough to be able to find the info within a minute - but I may be speechless for that minute. Emotions are displayed in the same way. Our intellect isn't in the loop. Different cases deal with the surges differently - I "clamp down" and go quiet. It's far less violent than some of the other reactions. But it makes me look stuck up .

We can't visually recognize emotions in other people. Emotional tags are based on what the emotional surge was like when the event happened. Our visual tags got lost in the mail. Visual *is* the intellect. *You* can't recognize emotion. Emotion is the way that data is prioritized, your visual information is neutral. In feelers emotional tags on visual information can be so strong as to prioritize it to the point of "undeniable". We would call that a hallucination.
You can't really hallucinate. You can rearrange the visual surroundings a bit but you know it's not real. Because all your intellectual facts are correct you don't even understand how a hallucination can exist. You can't let go of reality because you are that reality. Yet your other senses *do* "hallucinate" and feed you false data.

So we have this huge pile of unprioritized visual information in our heads. Nothing is more important than anything else. There are no emotions attached. We are very logical and see everything as it is - not as we wish to see it. It *is* a superpower.
It just takes us a while to find anything
We also have the power of brainstorm - we can ride the emotional surge to crank the mind up to full power. We become detached from the external world for a while. It's best to have something to work on while you're in there
The surges can also amplify the other senses - but may be outside of our control. Feedback loops can be the cause of migraines, chronic pain and other "mysterious" sensory ailments.

Emotions drive all our motivation. Since alexis are missing all the emotional tags from our intellect we aren't as motivated. We have to figure out how to make do with the emotions in the other senses for our motivation. A lot of us end up doing "something" tactile to get the motivation started and then find a surge to intensify it. Tricky and hard to keep up if you don't know that it's part of how you work. I was lucky enough to find sculpture and I *love* the brainstorm
Yes you can "love" tactile/aural/olfactory/tastely - just not intellectually.
Fresh raspberries . . .gagagagaga - ride the surge.

I'm much more likely to be sociable - before I was just weird and didn't know why, now I'm a genetic defect It really does make a difference.

Ha!
Redefining

So the tags are dumb.
since we don't know what emotions are we have no idea what those things "feel" like.
You could guess that there were one "emotion" from each sense and they each have different intensities at any moment. Each memory gets tagged with one intensity from each sense. There should be a master code tag from the sight. It would have the "intelligent" modifier to the other intensities. The one to match the "blind" senses to the visual situation.

Maybe it's more a functional thing.

So I feel tactile emotion, taste emotion. But to me they're a sense and a surge. I can intensify the sense by connecting it to the surge. I never realized that was what I was doing. I really do have audiophile ears. My sense of color is quite diferentiating, I can see the slightest of tone and hue variations. Tactily? You really must visit my sculptures. They are textural wonders. Taste/Smell I'm putting these together because *I* have a hard time separating them, but - I love good tasting food, but not enough to spend money on it Gonesh #6 incense - enuf said about smell. I have sometimes wondered if particular people had no sense of smell . . .

So I don't get this "intellectual emotion".
Am I missing something about the "prioritization"?
Are emotions really nothing but prioritization for access to the surge?
Maybe I do have intellectual emotion!
Because my intellect *can* ride the surge.
But it's not recorded?

Wait. Without the "master tag" the other sense-surge tags are jumbled. "emotion" is that carefully mixed and subtle combinatorital "set" of sense-surge information.
The mind tries to reinact the same sense-surge set that's "feeling" the emotion.
The whole emotion tag is scrambled.

Wait it is just jumbled.
Theres no "tags"

It's memory. The set of all the senses and their surge levels. period.
No - how would we have taste emotion. ha! we don't.
You fooled yourself!
That thing you're calling tactile-emotion is nothing but a sense and a surge!
You look like an idiot

Okay, Redefine Alexithymia by new data

Alexithymia: scrambled emotions
True but . . . inability to properly store emotional information? Untrained ability to control emotional surges?
Ooo! primal emoters.
We don't prioritize at all.
Surgies?
That's the functional part.

Okay,
As defined by an alexithymic amateur . . .
alexis previously = with no words - *actually* alexis = with no symbols
[*Have* to add - humans gain emotional development across their whole lives. They start with little emotional capacity and gain it as they build their symbols, emotions, attachments, etc. - all children start in this cognitive mode and "grow out" of it eventually - way different ages when this happens. Stress puts humans back in this cognitive mode. A young genius Einstien was colder and closer to his logic, an older Einstien was loving and full of math - this description is from one stuck in this cognitive mode]


Alexithymia - The inability to remember emotions

Humans store tactile, aural, olfactory, taste, sight, and emotional level information in their memories. The combination "remembered" replays the emotion. Memories with high emotional content have priority over others when it comes to remembering. They're on the top of the stack.
Alexithymics either don't store or can't read the emotional part of the memory. To them every emotional situation is new. An alexithymic takes time to access stored information since it isn't prioritized.

In a normal event the average person (feeler) quickly finds the prioritized data they were looking for with associated emotional levels from each sense. Alexithymics crude emotions are tense and waiting while their minds eye is out wandering through the stacks . Different individuals have different delay times. When a memory is found the minimal to no associated surge data really doesn't tell us much. Any residual prioritization *will* get strong responses returned the quickest. . .
I'm fortunate enough to be able to find most info within a minute - but I may be speechless for that minute. Events previously unexperienced take longest to figure out. It once took me most of a day to figure out I could've gotten laid but just sorta robot autopiloted around until I figured it out . Emotions are not displayed during that time. Our intellect isn't in the loop. There will be a blank look to minimal facial change. "Confused" but if you ask . . .
*Every* emotional situation is brand new.

We can *visually* recognize emotions in other people to the level that we're individually capable. We can't remember what that emotion feels like. I can do childlike emotions, but that's about it. Glee, rage, wonder, yep that's about it. I'm not so sure about rage, no I can recognize *surge*! 'Cause that's what *I* do. That's pretty extreme. Think "berzerker". I *know* if one of us goes off.

Emotion is the way that data is prioritized, your memory is neutral to primitively sorted at best. In feelers emotion tags memory with subtle priorities. This gives them a whole new dimension to rearrange data. They can "imagine" - we can't. That's hard to "get" if you can't do it. They play with the priority of data to make it more or less "valid" (dreaming). We can't do that. To us it's just there. That's it. There or not. We can rearrange and recombine just as well as they but our data goes back where it was. "They" refresh and rearrange the priority of their memories when they repeat stuff. We don't. This explains why school sucked. Doing the *same* thing *over* and *over* and *over*. Also explains why you don't rewatch movies or reread books. *Their* repriorizations can be complete to the point of "believing" in their constructs. But they know this. So they always have at least the smallest doubt.
(I still can't figure out if it's there and we can't read it or if it just wasn't ever stored - or was no emotion experienced to store (not me I experience strong emotions)- these are separate defects, there-but-not-read would still be sorted? yes, never stored is photographic)

So we have this huge pile of unprioritized information in our heads. Nothing is more important than anything else. There are no subtle emotions attached. We are very logical and see everything as it is - not as we wish to see it. It *is* a superpower.
It just takes us a while to find anything But be fully aware, your world is a construct. You have no doubt in it. But it is only what you "remember". MY WORLD CONSTRUCT IS THE MOST ACCURATE_:-P
We also have the power of brainstorm - we can ride the emotional surge to crank the mind up to full power. We become detached from the external world for a while. It's best to have something to work on while you're in there
The surges can also amplify the other senses - but may be outside of our control. Runaway surges and your subconscious attempt to control them can be the cause of migraines, chronic pain and other "mysterious" sensory ailments. Different cases deal with runaway surges differently - I subconsciously physically "clamp down" my muscles and go quiet. It's far less violent than some of the other reactions. But it makes me look stuck up . And "gifted" me with 20 years of chronic pain.

Emotions drive all *their* motivation. Motivation *is* remembering emotion. We have to figure out how to make do with the primitive emotion for our motivation. A lot of us end up doing "something" to get the motivation started and then use the surge to intensify it. Tricky and hard to keep up if you don't know that it's part of how you work. I was lucky enough to find sculpture and I *love* the brainstorm
Okay, I "enjoy" the surge of the brainstorm. It's primal.
Fresh raspberries . . .gagagagaga - ride the surge.

Can a feeler understand this?

Is this human evolution reacting to extreme environmental stress?
We are independent supersoldiers, uhm, sheepish grin, evolutionarily speaking.
If you want proof check our reaction time, hearing, target discrimination, olfactory discrimination, tactile abilty. We're bad ass We're also quite healthy. Our repair system are on alert. And I started before you - evil grin.(I didn't like the smiley version, too scary)

Damn! That makes me a "Primary".
Natal Hernia Whoa! OK, keep in mind this is 1958 . . .I had a natal hernia as I was born. They didn't fix it at birth, back then they wanted you to "get stronger", so uhm . . . Five *years* later they fixed it. So I was "possibly" under "extreme physiological stress" for those 5 years. I wonder how much I affected my siblings?. My life wasn't unpleasant, I can't remember emotion. Get it?
Nothing is "bothering" me. I'm "happier" than you are. I know I'm right. You doubt. We're "damaged at birth" and came out snarling Our first defensive act was to be "more adorable" than our siblings. "He was always such a nice boy". Quiet babies don't get found?
I ended up an eccentric brilliant sculptor my family must've done something right . . . I do remember stuff almost photographically in spots from the age of one - but I *used* to doubt those. I must have *just* enough emotional memory to scramble the pile.

Wow! torture kids and build an army. Yes I can *think* that, I wouldn't recommend it, they're *very* independent, and we remember everything
Besides *they wouldn't remember any emotions*.

Modify the above construct for "Secondary" (I didn't want to believe in that). It is outside of my capability.
Wow! and PTSD- I haven't studied it but predict "photographic" sequences. They would've just shut off their "writing".
Compare me, the difference should be helpful.

I'm "crystallized" because I've always been like this - having prioritized memories and then turning off that function . . . .?
I *really* can't invent that. Note: Repressed memories, can we sue psychologists? There *is* no such thing. Evolution just "turns off" the emotional part of the memory. This *is* human combat mode. Quit trying to "convince" them that they have repressed memories. It weakens the intellectual control system. We *have* to realize we are right. There is no doubt. "photographic" will prove it.
I *really* hope this info gets distributed.

You realize that you "have" to be on this side to explain it. Same as I can't see what it's like on your side. That was a stretch of the data getting over there. I must have a lttle imagination, how disgusting (not really - it checks)

The ultimate alexithymia test:
Do you absolutely and completely believe in something?
If you anwered yes then this may help.


The whole trick is managing the surge of primal emotion.

Somewhen in puberty I subconsciously learned the "clamp down" trick.
Most would've just been incoherently emotional.
Or you learned "something" back then to manage it - that's when all the social stuff matters.
Those are the complex emotions that are just plain incomprehendable:-)
They take an interaction, mistake, emotional reponse, application in next interaction, emotional reponse, adjust, repeat.
We can't do that.

Yes, this *is* nerdism


motivate yourself:
Do something with your body while listening to music and eating tasty things.

I use sculpture.

walk-run-jog-climb some physical activity
basketweaving
something

Dance all alone with the music cranked up and just let it go.

Get "into" it. Latch on to the surge and let your senses "bloom". Crank it up - it's primally beautiful.

You have *ZERO* motivation sitting still with no sense input.
Motivation *is* remembering emotions.
You're only *alive* when your surging.

(brainstorms ride the primal "rush" so can self-sustain - specially with the ambient cranking on an audiophile level sound system)

Anyone want to study my brain? I want pictures . . .