Desire to watch wife with another man

I’m comfortable receiving pleasure but, I also get more pleasure from giving. I enjoy it so much because it’s my wife’s favorite intimate act and it has never failed to give her an orgasm (often multiple)!

Hi Diogenes

I just wanted to say thank you for posting this. I've just read the first page and half of replies and will read the rest tomorrow.

In short, I appear to have some things in common with you, and it's good to be able to disclose them here on a forum. I'm sure you know you're not the only person with these fantasies but you may enjoy hearing my story. I'm also fascinated about the way that this fantasy excites me and has literally taken me to states of arousal and heights of sensual bliss that I find myself freshly amazed are even possible (what I used to think was orgasm was clearly only ejaculation, not the same thing!).

I particularly resonate with your words " I don't actually want to watch her with another man. I want to imagine her with another man." We're quite happily married with young children and the last thing we need is the potential chaos enacting something out might entail. Not only that, I realise that there is sufficient fertile ground to explore simply indulging the fantasies and seeing where they lead. I see no harm in this. It's simply a fascinating exploration into the human experience.

I've been married just over 12 years now and met my wife when she was 35 and had at least as many previous partners as myself. I've gradually teased out of her that she might have had a few more than she at first told me (that she'd had about 6 or 7 boyfriends and 2 or 3 one night stands), which has expanded to somewhere around 20 different men she's had sex with. I wonder if it might even be a higher number, and I find this thought incredibly arousing. Perhaps another discussion with her someday. I don't want to push her to talk about this since she finds this whole thing a little less interesting than I do, and we have quite a physically demanding life on our small farm at present, and she has other concerns at present (being 47 and somewhat exhausted by children and life etc).

One of the things very early on when we were just married, that at the time nearly destroyed me, was that she did have a short affair with another man. It was a difficult time for us in that we were under financial strain, and she had a very sudden regret that I wasn't the right man for her. It turned out that the affair was short lived and she realised after a while that she did want to be my wife and so we reconciled and a few months later had our first child (definitely ours!).

The pain I experienced in that first year was excruciating. I had counseling, cried bucket-loads, and the two of us talked about my pain, and together we formed a bond in overcoming what happened. Since then we've been very close.

Now, 12 years after that affair, I find myself fantasizing about it, and no longer being pained by it, but actually aroused thinking about it, including indulging myself fantasies that perhaps her affair went on for longer than it did (three months), and that perhaps she had encounters with other men around that time, entirely unknown to me then and now..

Well, I'll leave it there for now. I've enjoyed the chance to get all this out. Perhaps I'll write a bit more soon. Thanks again!

Hi Diogenes

Firstly, thank you for your post. It has helped me understand I am not the only one around who has had a similar revelation as per what you wrote below.

21cDiogenes wrote:This discussion has been informative and enlightening. It has helped me to clarify my desire which is not actually a desire. It's simply a fantasy that gets me aroused. I don't actually want to watch her with another man. I want to imagine her with another man. I have a very active imagination and I'm not sure the things I imagine are always particularly healthy. I think I'm going to work on that......

I replied a couple days ago, but perhaps in my excitement I got a little too happy in writing about my own situation, and that may have caused the reply to be denied due to being a little too revealing or provocative in nature? Or my internet crashed at the wrong moment..

So I won't write much here beyond to say that I'm happily married for a few years over a decade now, and that I have a very similar fantasy, or range of fantasies, some of which draw on, and elaborate on, an occurrence in the first year of our marriage, that I find fascinating and almost limitless in possibilities - the fertile ground of the human imagination being practically infinite.

My hunch so far, is that I do not believe our imaginations themselves can cause us trouble or be unhealthy for us personally (how indeed can curiosity about - and allowing full reign of - our unconscious be any more problematic than the dreams we have at night?), rather I see the potential for confusion in our beloveds if we lack discernment and general sensitivity about which ones and when we share them with them.

Again, thanks. Look forward to hearing your thoughts if you have any.

Hi Tannhaeuser ,

Thanks for sharing your story and your thoughts. It's funny how many views this topic has but how few are participating in the discussion. The reason I posted in the first place was because I found my feelings on this to be confusing. Why would this be such a turn on. I was hoping to get some feedback to help me figure out where this is coming from. The people that have posted have been helpful in my self analysis.

I'm glad you and your wife resolved your bumpy start and are now happily married. Family is the first priority IMHO.

Tannhaeuser wrote:I do not believe our imaginations themselves can cause us trouble or be unhealthy..... or be any more problematic than the dreams we have at night?)

I'd like to explore this idea further but I need to get some rest right now. I'll just say, sex can really mess with your head (by way of other body parts). A vivid imagination coupled with some mind blowing orgasms has the potential to cloud ones reality which could lead to making some questionable choices. A friend of mine has a saying, "Don't let your dick do your thinking!"

I don't think you're in danger but I recommend proceeding with caution! That's what I'm trying to do.

I look forward to continuing this discussion...

Hi Diogenes

Sorry for the late reply.

Two things come to my mind about the "why".

Firstly, have we simply stumbled onto a basic biological "hack" that stimulates arousal to record high levels? - perhaps a trick to get us so highly arroused that we immediately make a last ditch attempt to displace another man's sperm to prevent ourselves raising a cuckoo child? I wonder if most married men may be able to access this state of arousal if they were attuned and willing to explore it. Perhaps many men shy away from the fantasy because it is accompanied by some level of pain or hint of the terror of abandonment and rejection, or the excruciatingly torturous agony of having another man impregnate their beloved wife. So they just never explore it (even though this very agony is mysteriously and somehow perplexingly just inches away from a correspondingly intensely pleasurable orgasmic bliss). To me it is some kind of dance around the boundary between pleasure and pain, and that to a large extent is what makes it so intense.

Secondly, it also reminds me of some distant memories from my early childhood in which it felt like I was missing out on great fun and ecstasy that other kids were experiencing together. A joke that I wasn't let in on, or a party I didn't go to, or the hint or rumor that other kids were kissing (or worse) behind the bike-sheds before I ever experienced anything like that myself. So, if such experiences are embedded in my earliest awakenings of sexual sensation, then it makes sense that imagining the adult equivalent of similar scenarios years later may awaken the strength of feeling that accompanied those early developmental stages - when feeling was all the more powerful because it was free of interfering mental analysis and interpretation.

But, isn't this a universal boyhood experience? Even the popular boy who girls crowded around had to imagine the older boys or men who were getting up to mischief they could only dream about.

Perhaps the above ideas, particularly the first one, might explain the high views of this thread but the few comments? While it may be a tantalizing thought to a lot of men, they are reticent to admit or explore it due to generally not being comfortable with the initial discomfort.


In regards to:

21cDiogenes wrote: I'll just say, sex can really mess with your head (by way of other body parts). A vivid imagination coupled with some mind blowing orgasms has the potential to cloud ones reality which could lead to making some questionable choices. A friend of mine has a saying, "Don't let your dick do your thinking!"

I don't think you're in danger but I recommend proceeding with caution! That's what I'm trying to do.

I still find myself defending the complete safety of this, so long as one uses wisdom, which in our cases I don't think is difficult for us.

I assert the overall safety of this fantasy because it is one that increases rather than diminishes our sexual interest in our wives. It's not like watching porn or fantasizing about other women. To the contrary, it makes me (and from what you've written I'm guessing you also) more interested in my wife sexually. And all evidence I see is that this is beneficial for married life. If I'm highly aroused when I initiate contact, somehow her body senses my high state of arousal and responds accordingly. I will tend to want to prolong foreplay and tender touch and kissing of her body, particularly those places she loves to be touched and kissed - and I'll enjoy doing it all the more! This in turn leads her to a whopping orgasm and almost universally this means a happier wife the next day.

The thing I am gradually realizing is that I can have all the benefits of this fantasy (of varying details and specifics) without sharing the explicit details of my imaginings to her. Occasionally as the mood fits I will share a bit with her, but that is entirely optional.

Interested to hear if any of this resonates with you!

Hello again, Tannhaueser!

I wanted to follow up on my previous post.

Tannhaeuser wrote:I do not believe our imaginations themselves can cause us trouble

In my reply I said:

21cDiogenes wrote:A vivid imagination coupled with some mind blowing orgasms has the potential to cloud ones reality

To further elaborate on that; I think it's possible to use what we're imagining as our "go to" source of arousal instead of using the current and real love for our wives. The danger here is that it relegates our wives to sex objects. Don't get me wrong, I think seeing my wife a sex object is big part (although, not the only part) of what I find so arousing about it. That being said, I don't think that's a good thing!

You said that she's

Tannhaeuser wrote:had at least as many previous partners as myself. I've gradually teased out of her that she might have had a few more than she at first told me

That's the case with me as well and I also am aroused by that!

Tannhaeuser wrote:she finds this whole thing a little less interesting than I do, and we have quite a physically demanding life on our small farm

My wife and I have been married longer and are much older. Your lifestyle is different (small farm vs urban) and I think we live in different countries (if the time stamps are any indication); and yet, here we are sharing very similar sexual proclivities!

Tannhaeuser wrote:and she has other concerns at present (being 47 and somewhat exhausted by children and life etc).

My wife is similarly exhausted and actually has lost interest in sex. I on the other hand, still have quite a bit of interest! To further complicate our situation, as you may have read (?) I have E.D.!
I think in my mind I envision using the other man as a "human sex toy"; a "marital aid" as it were. I speculate that this would rekindle her sleeping libido. Of course, I'm delusional!

Tannhaeuser wrote:I see the potential for confusion in our beloveds if we lack discernment and general sensitivity about which ones and when we share them

I agree! I've shared my interest in her past sexual experiences and she's humored me with some very arousing "recollections" but, to be honest, I feel a little sleezey bringing up the subject for my own (dare I say perverted?) sexual gratification. She often claims she doesn't remember many details, especially about an incident that happened after we had been in a long term relationship (and the one most gets me aroused). I don't really believe her but I don't want to force her to talk about something that makes her uncomfortable.

One last point and then I'll shut up.

I was raised Catholic but abandoned religion when I went away to college. I embraced the "sexual revolution", "free love", "if it feels good do it!" lifestyle (but wasn't actually as active as my wife). When we got married we both re-examined our moral beliefs. We've always been faithful to each other. As I've aged I've actually looked deeper into church teachings on sexuality. Sex between a man and wife is actually looked on as a very beautiful and wonderful thing! There are boundaries, though, as you might imagine. I discovered the concept of certain acts as being "disordered". When I was young and horny I thought the church thought all sex was dirty and they just wanted to make everyone conform to their own distorted prudish view of sex. In retrospect, I see that they are really on to something. In so many areas we all agree that if we do things out of order they don't turn out right; from assembling a piece of furniture from IKEA to manufacturing a car, etc. But, when it comes to a sexual relationship we think we can just do what feels good at the moment and, no big deal, "it's just sex"!

Re: "watching my wife with another man", as arousing as the fantasy is, I realize that actually doing it falls squarely in the realm of "disordered"! Looking back on the aftermath of the sexual revolution it's easy to see the disordered state we've fallen into; broken homes, rampant abortion, orphaned children, etc, etc.
Oops! I almost fell off my soap box....

Suffice it to say, I don't intend to attempt to fulfill my stated "desire". This discussion has helped me to get this off my, er, chest. Yeah, that's the ticket; off my "chest"!

I know many have view this thread but few have commented If anyone wants to jump in and share their thoughts please feel free. I found it to be very helpful to me to sort out my confusion!

Bumped by the mod to alert you to a post that wasn't visible when you last commented, Diogenes.

The biological hack theory's an interesting one, and unless it can be disproved, makes sense to me. Not sure that is what makes me think of it as being 'hot', though. I think I've stated I'd have been a bit of a swinger, given the opportunity.

Hi Diogenes

The approval process of our posts means we're a bit like phone calls to Europe in the 80s so we miss and cross past each other a bit. Nevertheless I'm enjoying the opportunity to explore things with you.

I hope I'm not being too much of a contrarian or following the sensual path my namesake took (I don't actually know much of the Tannhäuser mythology), but here goes.

Is that phrase "sex object" an attempt to refer to, and perhaps even exaggerate?, the worst of modern depictions of women? Or is it in part an attempt to reduce male sexuality into something that it for the most part isn't, and perhaps only rarely actually is?

To me the word object depicts something that lacks life and so is limited to the physical dimensions. Pornography comes to my mind. And from what I can gather (I don't want to investigate!) modern pornography, much like modern music, has become increasingly lifeless and lacking broader human dimensions. I only really know the books and magazines and eventually the occasional video we passed round as teenagers in the 80s. The authors were attempting to paint as much personality into these as they possibly could, and I remember the conversations when we discovered that the smaller forum magazines that were stories without pictures, were actually our favorites. So I have this faith that human sexuality is something more innately complex and beautiful and mysterious and innocent than the garish cruel picture we are often reduced to see it as in the commodity advertising driven world.

I remember a scene from the film Night Of The Iguana that restores humanity to an act that the main character is quick to deride as something he assumes his friend re-telling the experience would have found disgusting. She responds "Nothing human disgusts me, unless it's unkind or violent". That moved me deeply when I first saw it, and also now re-watching it on youtube.

So are not our fantasies genuine attempts to expand our perspectives of our wives to pictures that attempt to more closely approximate their multi-dimensionalality and also welcome the many aspects that will always be to some degree unknown and mysterious? Are we not rightly finding ways to expand our understanding of our wives beyond the narrow "object" perspective that the busy and deadened commercial society we live in tends to reduce our lived perspectives of each other and of ourselves?

As I imagine my wife more liberated and free and uncensored and unrestrained, am I not to some extent assisting also her own re-energizing and as well as my own? This is certainly my experience. Some things don't need to be stated. She picks up on some fresh boldness and energy in my body as I have opened the floodgates of my own perspectives, and this opens up her experience.

This takes me to my next hunch.

I've often had the sense that life and pressure and work and performance expectation, and probably also some unhealed childhood family wounds and shames, etc, have somehow deadened my innate and whole sexual experience. I have a sense that exploring these fantasies and sensations is some kind of a therapeutic journey back to wholeness and integration, and so a more satisfying sex life for both of us.

I'll leave it here for now and check back another time in case I've missed some things you mentioned in the cross-posting.

I'm in my 50s and have had some ED issues but not much. I've found a very low dose of DHEA did wonders. Only 10 to 15mg per day maximum, since more can actually reduce testosterone. I get 25mg capsules and have a quarter capsule morning and night.

Now I just read your thoughts and experiences on Catholicism..

I was only partly "raised" Anglican and Catholic via very sporadic Church attendance to both these two churches, though more Anglican, so I don't know much about that influence and perspective as pertaining to sexuality and married life. But I will say that from the bit I did experience, I found it on the whole very nourishing and empowering. Mainly for me the sense of mystery and mythology that expanded rather than reduced and narrowed human experience - in complete contrast to spirit insulting cheap porn and crass gameshow level TV for instance. Church to me embraced the sacred and the eternal and the high-reaching, particularly as embodied in the organ music, the stillness, the ritual, the majestic stained glass windows and heaven pointed church spires.. the beloved Christ baby in Mary's arms.. So I empathize with filmmaker Christopher Nolan's use of biblical imagery and church organ music in his films, particularly Interstellar, which to me is a kind of retelling of the Gospels.

But for me, it never went much further than this kind of pantheistic open ended hinting to the divine and eternal..

For better or worse I think I also have a kind of internal resistance to get more involved in any deeper or organised way with any religion so I concede that it is possible there may be some great benefits that I am missing out on. Too much of the wandering minstrel Tannhäuser to know what's good for me!

Hello again, Tannhaeuser!

Sorry for the much delayed reply to your posts!

As an aside; I sent you a private message through this site which , I'm guessing, you haven't seen. I wasn't aware of a lot of the features of this forum (and and am still learning). I discovered the message feature at the top of the page and am just starting to use it (user control panel).

Now, to dive in. So much to discuss! My apologies as I may miss some points.

In the interest of taking advantage of the time I have with my wife out of the house, I'll just address them as I think of them.

I googled "Desire to watch wife with another man" and got some enlightening results (including a link to this discussion!). I don't know if we're allowed to mention specific publications but a popular Psychology magazine had a couple of articles on this very subject. Apparently this desire is not all that uncommon. Among the list of the most reported reasons men gave for this desire were a few that seemed to correspond to my reasons (both conscious and subconscious).

In no particular order:

I'd like to see my wife as highly desirable to other men (and know she's mine).

As I mentioned in my post that started this thread, I would be experiencing her arousal and pleasure vicariously while watching her, hopefully, being brought to multiple orgasms.

I have pretty significant erectile dysfunction so I would like to see her being made love to in the way I wish I could do it (and believe me, I wish I could do it in ways that would require language that may be deemed inappropriate)!

My wife has absolutely No libido which I attribute to stress, anxiety and all the meds she's taking to control it. I feel if she could experience some proper sexual intercourse with a solid erect penis (at least equal to or exceeding the the awesome one she was used to with me ) it would reignite her sexual desire.

There is also the voyeurism aspect. I find watching people having sex is very erotic (although I no longer take advantage of the unlimited opportunity to do so on the internet )

Also, there is the same sex attraction that I discussed in the "Bi-curious over 50" thread. Coupled with my submissive sexual inclinations (plausible deniability?) I may be drifting into the OCD area of this desire!

There may have been more reasons but that's more than enough get me all worked up!

Now, here's the rub (play on words intended ); as I said, my wife has no real desire to be intimate with me and I don't masturbate! This leaves me incredibly frustrated! In addition to that, all these reasons are pretty much based on the idea the real life experience would be really close to what I imagine they would be, which is highly unlikely.

RE: the dangers of cultivating this desire and the objectification of our wives...

I know there are couples that embrace this "Hot Wife" lifestyle. Personally, I don't believe this works out for them in the long run but I have no evidence one way or the other and I'm certainly not here to judge. I know it wouldn't work out for me.

As far as a shared fantasy with ones wife; that seems like a more promising scenario but my gut feeling after giving this a LOT of thought is that it's ultimately dehumanizing. It strips the love out of love making and and replaces it with pleasure seeking. (This could be a whole other topic in itself)

This kind of leads me to spiritual beliefs on sexuality; again, a whole other topic in itself!

I'm no Theologian and the teachings of the Catholic church, of which I am a member, are deep and rich. Some of the relevant core beliefs are (bear with me in my gross over simplification; my armchair theology ) that there is a creator of the universe (well, everything really), there is an intelligent design, there is order in His creation, nothing is random. When order is disrupted there is trouble. There is good and there is evil and when things are in a state of disorder it's fertile ground for evil to flourish. Our amazing and beautiful sexuality was created to encourage us to be fruitful and multiply and to create a physical and spiritual bond of love with our spouse. (there are other kinds of love but erotic love is what I'm referring to). I believe this why the entire realm of sexuality is such a minefield. I don't want to get too deep into this but suffice it to say that if you allow yourself to get sucked (another play on words ) in to a world of "sex purely for your own gratification", your wading into a world of "disorder". And, just to be clear, I'm not trying to push my beliefs on anyone. I'm just trying to let you know where I'm coming from. I stand by my long held mantra, "Judge not, lest ye be judged"!

To sum up today's rather lengthy post:

Desiring to watch your wife with another man is not that uncommon.
There are numerous reasons why that's the case.
I share a number of those reasons.
When I started this thread I was confused by my strong desire but being able to discuss it and "think out loud" about it has helped me to make some sense of it.
I have now relegated it to the category of "Fantasy" and not an actual desire.
I welcome anyone who has been drawn to this topic to please jump in and share your thoughts!

A modly interjection- members that haven't been involved long enough, lack the ability to send or reply to private messages. If Tannhaeuser has read your message, Diogenes, it'll be moved from the 'outbox' to 'sent', but do not be surprised at no response for the time being.

And also explains why you can't as yet reply, Tannhaeuser. This is necessary for multiple reasons, please be patient.

So, Diogenes....

Fantasy!

I haven't thought much whether for me it is fantasy or a 'real world' desire. But I think, neither. The idea is a turn on, but it's not something I spend much time thinking about, either. Me, I'd have liked to swing, back in the day, but it's nothing I saw the need to press for.

I think you're fine with the forum rules. Citing publications with a link, in the context of a discussion, is relatively okay as long as it's not something behind a paywall, I think, and as long as it's not another forum. Directly quoting articles or papers actually are supposed to include source and a link, to be honest, but that applies to copy/pasters.

And the religious aspects are fine- as you said, you're not promoting your belief, but it's also unreasonable to expect folks to separate themselves from where they're coming from. I'm not Catholic, but I make noises of being Christian. I think about CS Lewis' observation that if we were to find ourselves in a society where there was a plate of food on the stage, and it was revealed to the audience, bit by bit, as food porn strip tease, we'd think that was pretty messed up. And, so it is with sex.... I wish I could say my mores would prevent me from wanting to fulfill the subject of this topic, but I'm not so sure I'm that good. Sexual thoughts and desires has always been a thing that for me, has been restrained more due to my hangups and my anxiety disorders, than by morals. Me being rather neurotic has done more to keep me on the straight and narrow, than God. Rather a perverse version, pulling from Lewis again, on being a good-natured person due merely to having a 'good digestion' than by deliberately being a good person. My lack of sexual adventurism is not really a virtue in my case, just a side-effect of my mental state. In the absence of which, maybe I would choose to be more sexually chaste, but I don't have much faith in myself there

But I agree, I think you're right in that I would think it would have to be an exceptional relationship to stick to a 'hot wife' or even a swinger paradigm over the long term. Seems to me eventually something would go sour, unless the couple is really, really solid with each other. But then, I could be wrong. Certainly I'd have been willing to use the empirical method to find out.