Desire to watch wife with another man

This is actually a pretty common fantasy. Ultimately it's rooted in sperm competition. If a man knows that his wife has been inseminated by another man, he will generally respond with arousal. He will immediately want to have intercourse with her, thrusting harder than usual in order to remove as much of the other man's semen as possible before a very intense ejaculation of his own. He's "reclaiming" her as it were, trying to ensure that he establishes paternity.

I had this fantasy myself for years. I would routinely masturbate to the image of my wife having sex with other men. Sometimes we would roleplay this bed and it would bring on the most intense orgasms.

Interesting replies Diogenes and Snaga.

Now I'm most curious about your mentioning of C.S. Lewis Snaga. I've been drawn to know more about him after the film Shadowlands, which may be more fiction than truth, but a film I enjoyed. When I get a chance I will look into that depiction of the plate of food on the stage.

I resonate with your experience of having not partaken in various opportunities of forbidden fruit for lack of confidence and underlying anxieties. However, I do wonder if the long-term outcome of this situation has resulted in more heartache and confusion than if I had simply had better mentoring and older male support as a young man in order to help me over my anxieties earlier rather than later in life. Yes, I may have made some mistakes and regretted them in my younger years, but I can't reasonably predict a worse long-term outcome from this.

I'll try to get to the heart of why this subject interests me, which may have some overlap with you Diogenes.

My experience is that the more sexually attracted I am to my wife, the better our marriage. So I tend to believe that sexuality can be the garden OR the apple. Perhaps when rightfully innocently embraced without shame, as symbolized by pre-apple nakedness, it serves a good purpose - joy and procreation, yet when when combined with shame of our sexual sensations, jealousy, and the pitfalls of power and greed, it can lure us like the snake toward evil.

So I wonder if anxiety that hinders initiating sexual encounters, including potential relationships or even marriages, may be more a potential doorway to an unconscious vulnerability to the lure of the snake, rather than an unwanted disability with the positive side-effect of preventing dangerous spiritually harmful experiences?

As far as exploring the fantasies or thoughts that increase our sexual attraction to our wives, I see complete innocence - however inappropriate the imaginings may well be. More "sinful" as I see it, would be to adopt a self-reproaching self-shaming top-dog judgement and suppression of the truth of our God given sexual sensations and the imaginings that increase them. In this case, I see the judgement more as the snake, and the innocent naked embracing of the delight giving fantasies, as the garden.

Also, the proof is in the pudding.

A happier marriage with more enlivened and energized sexual embraces, not to mention more playfulness and warmth and affection throughout the day.

Lastly, Diogenes, I also read one of those articles which mentioned this fantasy often being about the idea of other men being attracted to our wives. In my case this does nothing for my state of arousal whatsoever. Imagining a group of men looking admiringly at my wife gives me a creepy and slightly unpleasant sensation at best. Likewise imagining other men's pleasure with my wife does zero for my arousal unless their pleasure is simultaneously accompanied with HER pleasure, which is the deciding factor.

The more I try to nut out precisely what it is about the fantasy that arouses me, the more I see that it is entirely about her having a highly pleasurable experience doing something that doesn't directly involve me, but instead another man or men. The more pleasurable I imagine her experience in the fantasy, the more I am aroused. If I imagine the slightest discomfort or unpleasantness for her, it's instantly over for me.

Also, to some extent but not to any extent, my arousal tends to go up in correlation with the degree in the fantasy, of her secretiveness in terms of not wanting me or others to know about what she's up to, and also the level of taboo breaking or shockingness of what and with whom she is up to it with.

Who knows what these things all point toward. In some way I imagine it is a little bit like opening a hidden door to a glimpse into her true uncensored nature. There is something mysterious about women and female sexuality (including the female orgasm) that I think these fantasies are in some way closer to the truth of, than just imagining the civilized modern day picture of a devoted loving and somewhat demure wife. Are we in daring to open our minds and bodies to a more sensibility shocking and untamed and spontaneous, and so exciting, female nature in fact allowing ourselves a better glimpse into the original joys of the garden?

Well, enough pondering for now. Yes, I am unable to reply to your private messages Diogenes. I hope I can soon, as I'd like to reply with things that worked for me that could look like product placement on the forum. Also, other things best said in private!

Perhaps better said, if we see marriage as a kind of semi-taming of a wild and deeply sexual and potentially polygamous and hypergamous female tigress, then it makes sense to me that keeping this reality in mind (via occasional fantasy) is a healthier and more energized approach to marriage than simply to pretend she's a plain old domesticated cat.

If we actually had a semi-tamed tigress living in our house we'd be wise to not forget what she really is. Likewise in marriage, both for the benefit of our sex life, and also in terms of being mindful of the tight-rope reality of what marriage really is.

jiveturkey1983 wrote:This is actually a pretty common fantasy. Ultimately it's rooted in sperm competition. If a man knows that his wife has been inseminated by another man, he will generally respond with arousal. He will immediately want to have intercourse with her, thrusting harder than usual in order to remove as much of the other man's semen as possible before a very intense ejaculation of his own. He's "reclaiming" her as it were, trying to ensure that he establishes paternity.

I had this fantasy myself for years. I would routinely masturbate to the image of my wife having sex with other men. Sometimes we would roleplay this bed and it would bring on the most intense orgasms.

I agree with you jiveturkey. I think there's definitely some individual variation and reasons behind them for each man, but I think at core there is something biological and primordial going on with its origins in many ancient millennia of sperm competition. I have a hunch this is the most arousing fantasy for men on the whole, though a lot of men probably won't ever dare explore it.

I also agree re intense orgasms. I didn't know that an orgasm was something non-localized and ultimately separate and indescribably different from ejaculation, until exploring this fantasy, both on my own, and also in roleplay and pillow-talk with my wife.

Harmless fun exploring the full range of human experience and pleasure in my opinion. And certainly good and energizing for my marriage.

Just a brief reply....

Maybe there's some underlying, like you say, Tann, primordial element in the sperm competition theory but for me that's not even a subconscious factor. The thing that gets me aroused is just the idea of watching her getting naked with another man and seeing her overflowing with pleasure from being made love to by someone new for the first time (and knowing that I'm watching).

I do love hearing about her past sexual experiences when I can get her to share. Like you had mentioned, Tann, she doesn't enjoy reliving her past as much as I like hearing about it.

But, like I've discussed in previous posts, I've got my own contributing factors. I'm old and past my prime. It can be a source of great frustration. At this point I'm trying not to feed that fantasy. I know it will be back nipping at my, er, heals anyway.

As I've continues to ponder this topic I've come to a new conclusion. In a past post I said I don't actually want her to have sex with another man. I just wanted to "imagine" her having sex with another man. However, I don't think that's completely true. I think I've determined I actually DO desire to watch her with another man along with all the other things that would take place connected with that activity. Hence, the source of my frustration as I believe what I desire is NOT right. And, I know with 99.9% certainty that it will never happen! But the desire is there and it's real.

I also have other desires that are (probably) never going to happen. My frustration is not the fact that so many of my sexual desires won't happen. It's that I haven't been able to eliminate the desire!

Oh, my. What's a dirty (make that horny) old man to do?!

I have some thoughts on your last two posts Diogenes.

First, when you wrote "The thing that gets me aroused is just the idea of watching her getting naked with another man and seeing her overflowing with pleasure from being made love to by someone new for the first time."

I'm fully with you on that one! The next bit however (and knowing that I'm watching) doesn't work for me. I tried it, and there was almost no way my mind could build that picture/scene for me. Perhaps it's just my inability to imagine things that seem to me to be unlikely or impossible? - I don't think she'd ever do that with me watching so I find it hard to picture it. I'll try again sometime, see if that idea grows on me to the point I can imagine it..

So for me the fantasy usually involves her getting up to something when she thinks I'm securely committed elsewhere, and then maybe I change my plans and stumble into hearing her moans of pleasure from the front door and then me catching a glimpse between a curtain or an ajar door or something.

In any case, I think it's likely to be a similar thing going on for both of us.

I think the difference between the two of us is that I embrace the fantasy, while you are sitting with a sense of wrongness about it, and while I'm fully welcoming it, you're attempting to eliminate the desire (which I have a hunch will only feed it!). You've also mentioned that you are concerned you may be sexually objectifying her (I don't think that's the case, rather that you're in fact celebrating her sexual mysteriousness and multi-dimensionality).

My take is the opposite in this regard, and I find myself wanting to invite you to consider exploring what it is like to fully embrace the fantasy and firmly (no pun intended) tell yourself that there is nothing to feel bad about in allowing the fantasy to have full reign of your imagination, as far as "it" wants to go.

Then, I wonder, if your desire to actually make it happen in reality may gradually pass?, since the whole sensations and imaginings will have been sufficiently embraced without any repression, to reach a culmination and peaceful conclusion.

On a personal note, I can confirm that my health has notably improved since I started commenting on this thread. There are a couple new diet and supplement changes I'm also experimenting with (I'll pm you when I can), but I'm also quite certain that part of my recent health and marriage improvements are due to allowing myself to more fully embrace this fantasy - and discussing it here is a big part of that, so thanks you.

Good ti hear from you, Tann.

I love that we can explore a common topic but have different takes on it. I think it may come down to what's motivating these fantasies or desires. In your case (and correct me if I'm wrong) yours seems to be a cheating fantasy; doing it without your knowledge. In my case it's a desire fantasy. I'm imaging that she really loves to have sex and that she wants me to be involved.

Its late and I'm nodding off. I'll have to come back to this.

Looking forward to hear more about the health stuff you're doing. Keep posting and you'll earn the right to send messages!

Zzzzzzzzz

A brief follow up.....

21cDiogenes wrote:seeing her overflowing with pleasure from being made love to by someone new for the first time (and knowing that I'm watching).

You said the idea of her knowing you're watching didn't work for you.

Tannhaeuser wrote:for me the fantasy usually involves her getting up to something when she thinks I'm securely committed elsewhere, and then maybe I change my plans and stumble into hearing her moans of pleasure from the front door and then me catching a glimpse between a curtain or an ajar door or something.

Well, that is a situation that has actually happened to me in the past (sort of).

(My apologies if I've shared this alraedy) Years ago before we were married but living together in a long term committed relationship (something I don't recommend for all you casual readers of this post ) when I was out of town on business (securely committed elsewhere) my now wife brought a neighbor guy up to our apartment and proceeded to get high with him and indulge in heavy petting (passionately making out and letting him fondle her naked breasts and possibly her honey pot). While I didn't personally observe this, she told me about it some time later. She insisted it didn't go any farther than that (which I question) even though I told her it was okay if it did. It still gets me aroused to this day picturing it in my mind. I have asked her on a number of occlusions to give me more details but she says "she doesn't remember" (which I also question).
(Full disclosure: I had a "moment of weakness* with another woman on a previous out of town trip (the first and only time for me and something, to this day, I seriously regret!) which I confessed to her. She said what she did was, in effect, *revenge sex* and that she intended to go all the way but couldn't bring herself to do it.)

Just thought I'd share that to add context to the whole desire/fantasy discussion.

I'll leave it there for now