Desire to watch wife with another man

A popular psychology magazine's web site (don't know the policy on revealing the name) has a lot of interesting information on the things we've been discussing.

E.g. >the American Psychiatric Association categorizes sexual interests as either ‘normophilic’ (normal) or ‘paraphilic’ (non-normophilic). They define normophilic sexual interests as “interests in genital stimulation or preparatory fondling with phenotypically normal, physically mature, consenting human partners.” (APA, 2013, p. 685)
Everything else is considered paraphilic ..... Although paraphilia isn’t precisely defined, experts often talk about it as being a sexual drive “outside the normal” involving behavior that “deviates significantly from the norm.” Exactly what is ‘normal’ is still unknown. < (emphasis mine)

They then go on to show that much of what is considered paraphilia is much more normal than you might think. They also discuss the distinction between consensual and non-consensual, fantasy and acting on it and whether it causes distress and/or disruption in one's life. They also discuss the difference between Paraphilia and Paraphilic Disorder.

All very interesting to me. My apologies to all those who are looking at this thread thinking I may have drifted off topic. But, hey, this is a Psych forum, right?

Humans are complicated. Humans are sexual. Sexuality is complicated.

"paraphilia" is what people also call a "kink". It is not a disorder in itself, just weird the way humans are weird. Which means, like I said earlier, that what is "kinky" for an individual is "normal everyday life" for another.

Like every behavior, too far too much becomes a problem, and the "too far too much" will also depend on the person. Some can be distressed or become disorganized with little, others can stay stable and thriving with a lot.

It's to each person to find their balance between daydreaming, roleplay, books, movies...

This discussion has been informative and enlightening. It has helped me to clarify my desire which is not actually a desire. It's simply a fantasy that gets me aroused. I don't actually want to watch her with another man. I want to imagine her with another man. I have a very active imagination and I'm not sure the things I imagine are always particularly healthy. I think I'm going to work on that......

21cDiogenes wrote: I don't actually want to watch her with another man. I want to imagine her with another man.

I get that.

I have OCD. Which is characterised by intrusive thoughts. For me, my particular flavor is harm OCD, and for many years (decades, really) I struggled on and off with intrusive thoughts of harming others. Sort of a tangential form of harm OCD would also be what's popularly called POCD which is OCD with a special emphasis on the fear of being or becoming a pedophile. That flavor of OCD has tickled my brain a time or three, while fortunately not becoming a full-blown obsession. People in the iron grip of that particular OCD theme are quite pitiable, and I'm glad I've always been able to keep the lid on that particular brand of unreasonable anxiety. Still, it has tickled my brain on occasion.

I say that, to explain that for someone like me more than Normies that don't have Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, I've personally had to learn that thoughts and imagination do not equal real-world desires, attitudes, the Ego, or even the Id. Sometimes they do. But for someone like me, the trap lies in giving into the temptation to think thoughts always equal the person, and so I have learned to remind myself that they absolutely do not have to reflect what I'd really do, or even want to do, or approve of.

So yeah I totally understand that. Fantasy and imagination can be far removed from what a person really wants to do. Now, for me, I'd say I have a bit of a swinger streak, and I'd probably be up for the subject of this thread. But there's a whole lot that goes on in my brain, that is like Los Vegas: what happens there, stays there! Because it's just fantasy, it's just thoughts- and that's where it starts and ends, with no basis in Reality. Coming from a pw/OCD perspective, well for me, remembering that is a mental survival skill. I'm not the crazy, or kinky, or taboo thoughts that bounce around in my head sometimes. There is a very sharp line between what a person thinks about, and what they really would even consider doing, much less really do.

21cDiogenes wrote:I'm not sure the things I imagine are always particularly healthy. I think I'm going to work on that......

Yeah, as an OCD person, I do police my kinks and fantasies- I am OCD, and by golly, some sexual fantasies I just set carefully down, and slowly back away from. Because in the back of my head is 'yeah I am NOT that person, and I'm not about to become that person, or even just have to worry about becoming that person'. I'll carry it further than that- there's some things that I think aren't harmful in and of themselves, but what I intellectually believe aren't bad, still, if they tickle my brain the wrong way, I just treat them as if they're made of lava. There are some rabbit-holes I just would rather not go down.

The "sweet spot" in eroticism is the point where fantasy touches reality. Dancing around that nexus is the stuff that fuels arousal.

You make some excellent points, Snaga (as usual)! Upon further contemplation of the subject a number of things pop up.

First, there seems to be some area that I don't have a word for that describes how I feel about it. It's not just a fantasy or even wanting to simply imagine it. Still, I don't really want it to happen. But I would love to watch her having sex with someone. And, not necessarily the MMF thing. That's almost a separate things. I would love to watch her without her even being aware that I was watching; not so much as a voyeur but just so she wouldn't be inhibited by knowing I was watching,

Now all that being said, I'm pretty sure it's never going to happen and, as I said, I don't really want it to happen!

I think what's contributing to this desire is a number of factors. One - her once healthy libido is now dwindle to almost nothing. So fueling these thoughts is my desire to see her as an enthusiastic, energetic sexual woman. Sadly, at this point, this may be the real fantasy.

Two - I have E.D. and I can't make love to her the way I want her to be made love to. In my mind I see this other man as being my surrogate. I'm using him to pleasure her the way I wish I could. A big part of my pleasure and satisfaction from having sex is the pleasure and satisfaction I'm giving to my wife. As they say in the military, "Proud to serve!"

When I am able to coax her into spending some time in the bedroom with me I'm able to use certain skills I've developed over the years to make it worth her while but it still leaves me frustrated.

Despite these frustration, I still love my wife and she still loves me but the long stretches of no intimacy leave my mind to wander off into areas that bring frustrations of their own,

Just thinking out loud.
TTFN

Maybe I am unique but I tend to think I am not. In line with the topic and replies in this thread I also have fantasies of my wife with another man, but I am sure I wouldn't really never want to have it happen or maybe I would; this is where fantasy fuzzys the line between real and make believe.

Outwardly, she has absolutely no interest in it at all. As I said in an earlier reply she is a very straight laced lady in real life. HOWEVER, her willingness to be OK with my m-m trysts was the appeal of her love of large penises. It is the opposite of her being with another man, it was the idea of me being with another man.

The day after my returned from my overnights she asked me to tell her exactly what happened with each guy and how I felt with each sex act. Literally she wanted the blow by blow. We talked about my experience while we lay arm in arm in bed naked. As I talked she was masturbating herself and feeding me her grool on her finger, occasionally toggling my nipples. The more I told her, the more comfortable I became describing what happened and the more turned on she became. The more comfortable I became the more explicit my description became. The more explicit I became the more lurid the things she did with me became. I am as mentioned earlier a verbal exhibitionist.

Each of the three times I did a hookup it was understood we would followup with a love making session the next night.

The second night of this arrangement, while were were ######6 she began to fantasize out loud as erotic encouragement to me. She then began to describe me dismounting my male partner, and having herself finishing him by ######6 him and having him ejaculate inside her. The description she gave me had the impact on my arousal as if she had poured gasoline on a fire. It was all I could do to hold back and not ejaculate in her as she said it. I was amazed at her admitted fantasy.

My take away from all of this is as follows:

1. I have two sex lives, one that is in my head and one that is in my bed. The one in my head comes out in my erotic writing. I get lost in it as I write. It becomes "real" in my head. Much of it I would never do in real life.

2. The rich fantasy life that I have that arouses me, arouses her when I share it during intimacy.

3. Although she is a very buttoned down conservative woman, when she is aroused and in the middle of a torrid love making session with me, she will open up and fantasize things that I would never have thought she would imagine doing.

It all goes to the idea that our brains are our largest sex organ.

gnawdol wrote:It all goes to the idea that our brains are our largest sex organ.

It sure is!

I would like to watch any wife of mine with another man. Which I've probably already mentioned, though maybe not quite so plainly. At least in theory I would- have to do it once to find out if I enjoyed it...

For me I don't know that it's fetish (which we couldn't get into here anyway, unfortunately), nor any sort of cuckold humiliation fantasy. I just think it would be hot, that's all. Of course, I'd be also involved as in MMF, or it'd be a hard swinging scene with another couple. In the past, we've soft swung with a little swapping involved that didn't go past heavy petting. The other couple involved would have been up for anything, but later, at home, me and the other half discussed it, and while I hinted that I might want to do it, she hinted No we're not doing it. So, we didn't do that. But it totally wouldn't have bothered me to have done so. I'm not a cuckold; I won't be taken advantage of; I'm not a simp. But I'm also not particularly jealous or possessive, just so long as we're both playing by the same set of rules.

I missed your post from last Friday, gnawdol. I went back and read it. It was a good one.

gnawdol wrote: The more I told her, the more comfortable I became describing what happened and the more turned on she became.

I revealed in another post how I would sometimes come home from a business trip and, in the course of our "reuniting" in bed, I would tell her how I met a guy and one thing led to another, etc. Always different circumstances, different details but pretty much the same happy ending. I didn't tell her I was making up the stories and she certainly gave me the impression that she believed what I was telling her, Like your wife she would get incredibly aroused. I did tell her eventually that I was making it all up.

gnawdol wrote:she will open up and fantasize things that I would never have thought she would imagine doing.

I have always wished that my wife would do that but she's not very verbal. If she had any fantasies she never wanted to share them no matter how much encouragement I gave her.

I think we have a lot in common, gnawdol, when it comes to our sexual tastes (and, yes, cunnilingus is probably one of my favorite intimate acts). We differ in other areas and that might be a discussion for another time.

And please, give my love to your wonderful wife!

21cDiogenes wrote:and, yes, cunnilingus is probably one of my favorite intimate acts

Mine as well. I think perhaps because it's no expectation on me to 'perform', and I am uncomfortable receiving pleasure, and more more comfortable giving it.