Retarded Ejaculation - The Partner's Perspective/Discussion

Hey all...

Kitty -- there's really no way to have an easy discussion about this topic. So, you have to simply discuss the mechanics of what's going on and how masturbation plays a part in his problem. And then you have to ask him how he feels about cutting back or eliminating masturbation. Elimination is really what you want. But unless he wants it too it isn't going to happen. And that will result in him lying about it which only makes things worse. And RE guys tend to lie a lot about this stuff.

I also think discussing how destroying trust is no way to build a solid relationship. Lying about something as initimate as sex is a sure way to destroy everything. And you have to get that across to your BF.

I can understand how the reliance on fantasy would ultimately be disturbing. You want sex with your BF and you want him to be having sex with you. You want that emotional and physical connection. I think that is ultimately what every woman wants with the man that they love. Sex can be many things -- fun, exciting, a distraction, an escape... or, the expression of love between two people. RE tends to wreck that last one pretty well because of the struggle that sex presents just to get the mechanics down. People who have never had sexual problems have no idea how lucky they are.

I'd say to send him here to read but if he's a really sensitive person, these threads could really mess him up for a while. There isn't a lot of positive information and unless he has someone to talk to or access to studies, he could wind up very depressed. And RE guys tend to have some emotional problems to begin with. The ones that post here are IMO, among the stronger men on the planet because they are willing to face their situation and try to improve it, usually on their own. It took my husband a long time to be able to face the truth and to begin to research it on his own. So starting at this place (while the most thorough and informative of all places) could actually do some short-term damage. When he's farther along, here's a great place to send him.

and, Hi D! Glad to see you back with us. From your description, I wonder if you're dating my husband!!

Something I'm noticing in working together on this problem is that it is a "one step forward, two steps back" kind of thing. OK. Maybe it isn't two back but it feels like it because of the wallop that the step back packs. You, like me, want reality though. So, we have to suffer those painful reminders.

I recently realized that I'm reaching my limit on putting up with the ridiculous behavior that surrounds RE. And, I told him so. Whatever his problems are, he needs to deal with them. This hit him pretty hard but that's another part of reality that he needs to deal with. We all have a limit to our capacity to deal and mine is being reached. He either makes a concerted effort or we're going to have to discuss alternate arrangements. I'm sick and tired of lies and excuses. You used the word "confusion" and that's exactly it. He leaves me confused and I am very uncomfortable with that experience. The erosion to our trust has been significant and the way that this thing makes me question what I know and don't know about everything (our relationship, who he really is) is unacceptable to me.

The surprising thing is that he doesn't seem to trust me, either. When I tell him I'm OK with something sexually, he can't seem to allow himself to believe it so he interprets it that I'm only doing it because he can't perform normally. It upset me to learn this. There are really two sides to this problem. One is that he doesn't trust me and thinks I'd lie. The other probably more significant one is that he must think that this stuff is so "weird" or abnormal that I couldn't possibly really want to do it. I think he has problems accepting his own sexual preferences. The sad thing is that there's nothing wrong with them. He's a normal guy. He just doesn't know it.

On the better side, we've had a lot of recent success since he's stopped masturbating. It kills me that he didn't do this sooner. He knew he was doing it too much and compulsively at that. I didn't. He totally removed porn from his life. And, he's seeing a medical doctor who seems to have a clue.

But the real problems with him are emotional. There's something in there he just won't let me see or know. But I know it is there.

I feel so guilty for being a hard ass on this but at what cost do we continue to coddle in an attempt to improve sex? I'm not going to be in a marriage where there is no trust. And I'm not going to settle for masturbation to completion as a rule. So if he knows things that I don't know, he's going to have to deal with them because I can't read his mind or his past. I cannot undo what has been done to him. I would take it all onto myself if I could, but I cannot. So it is up to him. And that's just being an adult, I think.

The positive thing is that he has thanked me for pushing him because we are finally seeing the kind of improvement that doesn't seem like a one-off. But the trust issues are going to probably take years to deal with.

Ultimately, I can't settle for a "don't ask, don't tell" kind of existence. I have got to know where I stand. That's my own hangup but that's what I need and I know it. 'Cause when you don't know, you might not even be in the same relationship with the other person because your perceptions are so different. I'm not sure what the point of not knowing where you stand is. Happiness that's false like that is so fragile. It is like you're deliberately setting yourself up for a fall.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm doing more damage than good. But then I see the progress he's made. I guess if he doesn't benefit with me in the end, he'll be able to use this with someone else who won't have to suffer through what I've suffered through. I know that's a weird thing to say by someone who is married but ultimately I want him to be happy. I love him with all of my heart. And maybe my only role here is to help him over this hurdle. I don't know. I'd like to think it is for more than this and that once we deal with these issues we'll drift into old age together. But maybe I'm afraid to hope for such a thing when so much is messed up right now.

I just want him to know that he is a great guy and there is nothing wrong with him. Whatever he thinks is wrong with himself is the only thing that is wrong. And that's just sad. Because he is a beautiful person.

W.D. – You’re like the sister I never had. I totally understand what you’re saying when you talked about your husband being able to use what he’s learned with you with someone else. I’ve thought the same thing about my bf. We’ve went through really rough stuff…from us going through a period of extreme confusion about what was happening, to both of us discovering that he has this (I’m the 2nd person he’s been with, so he knew something was different the other two times he had sex, but thought it was the situation), to trying to figure out if we could tackle it ourselves, to me discovering he was mbing to p multiple times a week, then to me feeling like I was completely lied to and cheated on from the beginning of our relationship, then me dealing with lots of anger, to him trying to abstain from mbing and failing because he said it was “too painful,” to me feeling like he wasn’t trying and didn’t care, to us finding out months later he was probably suffering from some sort of prostate infection because he got really sick (probably flu) in May and started taking antibiotics and the pain in his groin then stopped, to us being at the place we are right now…which is we hardly talk about the RE, and he finishes after sex by mbing after I leave the room (if I stay or try to help him, he can’t finish).
I still think we are okay as a couple, but sometimes I get down about what we’ve went through because it’ll come up in other arguments…like the last argument we had (which was completely unrelated to RE) he said something like he doesn’t feel I respect him…and that had nothing to do with the argument. And at one point in the argument I blurted out, “I’ve done so much for you!” Which I knew meant me dealing with the RE (not sure if he interpreted it as that). He still thinks I “hate” him because of his past p usage.

So even though the really awful stuff is somewhat over and now I’m at a place where I’ve just sort of accepted it, the whole thing looms over us constantly. Part of my upset is that he’s not doing anything to help himself. Like the whole groin pain thing…I told him months before he stumbled on the antibiotics cure that the pain he was feeling was not normal and that he needed to see a doctor, and he never did. I still every once in a while send him a link to a sex therapist, but he’s apparently completely abandoned the therapy idea. This winter we used to get into huge fights about him going to therapy. If the roles were reversed, I’d be doing everything I could to see if I could be cured, even if that means spending a couple hundred dollars on therapy. That’s the thing that I’ve been the most infuriated over…how can a person just think that a deep psychological problem will go away? And it’s obviously a psychological problem with him…how can it not be? If I’m in the room, he can’t finish (through sex or mb), but as soon as I leave, he’s fine. That’s not a physical problem.

The thing that kills me about myself is that even though I know all this stuff, there’s still a little part of me that fears the problem is me. Like the last conversation we had about the RE was he was telling me that he doesn’t feel “comfortable” when he’s on top, like he feels he can’t move. So automatically I’m asking “Do think because it’s me? Because I’m tall? Maybe you need to be with a short girl?” Which I know is ridiculous. Sometimes I think his whole apprehension with sex is because of me, because of what we’ve been through, and we’re never going to break through that. But when I think about it rationally, I know that whatever hang-ups he has about sex, they were there LONG before me and he has to be the one to solve it.

That’s another thing, WD, that you wrote that totally resounded with my thoughts: “So if he knows things that I don't know, he's going to have to deal with them because I can't read his mind or his past. I cannot undo what has been done to him. I would take it all onto myself if I could, but I cannot. So it is up to him. And that's just being an adult, I think.” ABSOLUTELY! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve tried to find out where he got such anxiety about sex, where did it come from? Is it because he accidentally saw porn when he was 5? Did something happen to him? Is it because he fears women/pregnancy? I’ve asked and asked and he keeps telling me that he’s completely normal, except he has RE. While I don’t think he’s suppressing some memory of molestation (but I also still believe that IS possible), I also don’t think you just all of a sudden develop anxiety-based RE. And that’s what angers me…how can he really put us through all this without even going to ONE therapy session? Is it fear of trying the last method and finding out it doesn’t work for him/us? I agree that’s scary, but enough to not even try? What if it DOES work? How can he be fine with not knowing?

We have good news. He came last weekend during sex.
We didn't really do anything different, but a couple of weeks ago, he came very close and he's been feeling close ever since.

I'm not sure what was different the first time he felt close a couple of weeks ago. He said it had something to do with feeling "right," as in not feeling gross or tired, and at that point we hadn't done anything in a couple of days. But our sex routine has pretty much been the same for the last couple of months (a couple of times a week, ending with me leaving the room so he can finish himself off).

The weird thing is my reaction. I realized it really doesn't matter if he has RE or not. Like, after he did it, nothing about us changed. Maybe that's testament that I've really gotten use to it, but it was kinda like an epiphany that he's still the man I love if he does or doesn't climax with me. As long as I'm okay with our sexual relationship and that he's not emotionally in some sort of pain that I don't know about, then it really doesn't matter.

I know this sounds like an "Uh, duh" kind of thing to say because rationally, of course this never changed anything about him. But I guess after waiting 16 months for something and then actually seeing it, it's like, "What was the big deal about?"

Sorry I stopped visiting this site. I wonder if you are still out there, D and how things are going.

I have to report that since my husband truly gave up all of the habits that were detrimental to his functioning normally with me, things have improved significantly. If someone would have told me that we'd see such progress a year ago I would have been very skeptical. However, once my husband realized that this was a make or break deal and that he had been deluding himself for far too long (and has suffered because of it, in his previous marriage and in all sexual relationships), and he decided to see a doctor -- who put him on a low dose of cialis every day regardless of plans to have sex and who told him that the only way to cure sexual problems was to have sex -- and -- he gave up masturbation without me, we've been having a ton of success in all areas of our sex life.

The fact that he put in the effort and made a commitment that he kept has been very impressive to me. It took a lot of guts to seek out solutions as he has. He put time, effort and $$ into working the problem.

And yes, there was longer-term damage from the beginning BS involved, but that is fading now. Thank god!

I guess I stand by my rule that if the guy won't do anything about the problem the only thing to do is to leave. If someone won't do anything to help themselves in an area that is really the difference between a good intimate relationship and a bad one, they're probably not long-term mate material anyway. Too much is caught up in their problems facing and dealing with reality. And the toll on the partner is too great. It was very difficult on me and I suffered a lot.

Any guy who won't give up P and MB in order to have a fulfilling sexual relationship with their mate is a guy who isn't ready to be in a relationship with a real human being.

That may seem judgemental, but either you're ready to be a partner and are willing to invest in the relationship or you're reserving a significant part of yourself for yourself. That's a form of selfishness that will kill a partnership.

Regarding your huband's feeling "right" -- that is important, too. We have tried hard to reduce the pressure he feels. If he isn't in the mood to have sex for any reason or no reason, that's the way it is. It is different because typically the woman needs to have that sort of "safety" but in this case, I think it is important for the man to realize that he's not expected to be a sex machine. He has needs, moods, physical ailments, anxieties, whatever, too. Sex is for both of us so doing it at the expense of one of us isn't what we're looking for.

Unlike your response, my reaction to him has changed. While I was seeking therapy to be able to deal with something I thought would never change, over that period it did change. I'm really thrilled with it, too. I am happier overall, and I feel a greater confidence. I *love* making him orgasm. And he is happier, too. Our relationship is that much better because we satisfy one another and we know we can count on one another.

Overall, this has been a good lesson.

So if you're still around D, please post an update.

PS - I wanted to note that I really do think that whole Apflebaum or however you spell his name study with that single data point has been misleading and generally unhelpful.

Also, for those who suggest that ceasing to masturbate reduced their sex drive I'd suggest that a sex drive without someone in your life is fairly useless. And once you begin having sex with a real human being, your sex drive will return. But having a sex drive and only being capable of dysfunctional sex is a real mixed bag. And I'd question priorities if feeling horny is more important than having a functional sex life with a real person.

Hiya WD,
Yep, I'm still around, although I stopped visiting this site too. I'm so glad to hear that you and your H have worked things out and he's decided to make a change. I know you know, WD, that this takes such a big toll on relationships and demands so much understanding and patience from both sides. So, truly congrats!

Things have been pretty good between me and the bf. He, too, is still not mbing without me and still no p, which, I agree, is key. I can’t remember the last time we had an argument about sex, which is a HUGE change from last year at this time. We used to fight about it at least every week, if not every time we talked. So that’s a great improvement and it’s helped us just be a couple and enjoy each other, which we do. It’s been really nice focusing on all the things that work really well in our relationship, instead of just focusing on the stuff that needs more work.

I still don’t know why he has this problem and not another guy who does as much mbing and p viewing as he used to, but I think that’s for him to figure out and not me. I hope he chooses in the future to help himself by going to see a doctor and/or therapist because I feel it’s good to understand yourself, but I can’t make him do that. Coming to this repose has taken awhile for me to get to, but I feel like it’s the only way I can view the situation without driving myself insane. I still make myself available to him so that he can discuss whatever he wants to with me, but I’m no longer trying to push him to see somebody.

You bring up a good point about men not needing to feel pressure to be a sex machine. I think I really realized this when my bf and I were watching the TV show “Dexter.” It’s kind of a weird show to make connections to in your own life, but Dexter basically isn’t interested in sex and so he started seeing a woman who was treated so brutally in her past marriage that she had no sex drive. But, when she started to trust Dexter more, she became more physical, but Dexter still wasn’t into it, and suddenly she became all concerned about what’s “wrong” with him. When I was watching that, I realized how unfair it was that “society” (for lack of a better word) expects men to be ready to go at any point, while it’s totally acceptable (even normal) for women to be asexual. I said that to my bf and he looked at me and said “That’s what I was trying to tell you.” It was kind of a humbling moment.

Sounds like things have improved a lot for you, too. It is amazing how doing such seemingly simple things can improve not only the functioning, but the way we perceive one another. We don't fight about sex anymore either. I think the last fight was on the order of 5 or 6 months ago.

My husband and I have had lots of discussions about the fact that it is his body and he's allowed to say no. In a way, it is weird because these are discussions we have with our daughters but nobody seems to be having them with their sons. Parenting has a lot to do with these stereotypes, IMO. Sons need more instruction in this area and they're just not getting it. They're given the mechanical disussions but not boundaries discussions or emotional discussions or responsibility discussions. And the world is telling them that MB is fine and P is fine but nobody is pointing out that everything has a risk attachd. Everything. Being informed allows people to choose. Remaining ignorant allows people to fall into traps that are often hard to get out of.

We don't want our sons to go through what we've gone through... what my husband has gone through.

Overall though, I'm glad I pushed him to deal with this issue. And he is glad as well. He's thanked me many times for not letting him off the hook. He had no idea how good sex could be. And it is. It just keeps getting better.

When I started trying to figure out this problem a guy who is kind of a lay expert told me not to let him off the hook. He said if I did nothing would change. Men need to be pushed in this area. And I think he was right.

The guys who are on this site are the exception. But I still think perhaps a few hold on to behaviors that don't help them in part, because they are partnerless. But for others, it is because of something else... esp. the ones who are not partnerless. Maybe it is that if they give up those things and it doesn't solve the problem they know they'll have to look deeper and that is scary. (I'm sure it is *very* scary.)

But I'd wager that most of these guys can retrain themselves and that they don't have deep-seated psychological issues... The psychological issues they have now are the result of the sexual dysfunction rather than the psychological issues being the cause of it. And maybe they won't get to 100% success, but I'll tell you, we're in the 70-80% range and steadily improving and we're thrilled. If it never got better than this I think we would still feel we had died and gone to heaven.

Anyway, glad to hear that things are going well for you both.

I think our two data points are a real life lesson in what is possible.

*Edited by mod*

Quotes from WonderfulDay

And RE guys tend to lie a lot about this stuff."

And RE guys tend to have some emotional problems to begin with.

I recently realized that I'm reaching my limit on putting up with the ridiculous behavior that surrounds RE.

Any guy who won't give up P and MB in order to have a fulfilling sexual relationship with their mate is a guy who isn't ready to be in a relationship with a real human being.

But I still think perhaps a few [members of this forum] hold on to behaviors that don't help them in part, because they are partnerless. But for others, it is because of something else... esp. the ones who are not partnerless.

Wow, no wonder your husband is anxious around you WonderfulDay - you're a bitch!

Going on a support board and insulting the very people the board is supposed to help is kind of silly. Would you go to a pediatric oncology hospital to make fun of all the bald kids? No. Graciously, please afford the people here a similar courtesy.

Saying your husband is selfish for not coming during sex is retarded. Most women can't come through intercourse anyway - usually they have to be eat out/fingered. Is he doing that for you? If he is that probably means he's incredibly selfLESS, since he's doing something for you that he knows you can't reciprocate. Do you think he would rather come through masturbation than sex? If so you don't understand guys.


D-

he weird thing is my reaction. I realized it really doesn't matter if he has RE or not. Like, after he did it, nothing about us changed. Maybe that's testament that I've really gotten use to it, but it was kinda like an epiphany that he's still the man I love if he does or doesn't climax with me. As long as I'm okay with our sexual relationship and that he's not emotionally in some sort of pain that I don't know about, then it really doesn't matter.

It is realizations like THIS that signify your love for your BF, and this realization that help people on this board get through their RE. You are a truly caring person and your BF is lucky to have you.

Cheers!

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If you want to interpret what I've said that way, be my guest. Fact is, if any man who has this problem doesn't want to solve it by doing the things that are well within their power, they're actively choosing self-gratification over satisfying partnered sex. If you don't like that characterisation, it really doesn't matter to me. But to suffer the way the partner of someone with this problem suffers -- and you just don't get how they suffer apparently -- knowing that you're not doing some very simple steps is extremely unloving and selfish.

If you don't want to give up porn and masturbation, great. Then what you'll find is what so many other men with this problem find -- a string of broken relationships. If you give up those things and still don't solve the problem, things might be different. But then again, they might not.

Fact is dude, my husband can cum now and he's grateful that I didn't let up on him and that he worked the problem. Further, he gets sex regularly and is pleased with it. I love him very, very much or else I wouldn't have stayed while he denied, put me off, stuck his head in the sand, outright lied, etc. etc. etc. harming my ability to trust him and harming my self-esteem.

If I'm a bitch, you should be so lucky to find one for yourself.