Retarded Ejaculation - The Partner's Perspective/Discussion

wife 2 wrote:I've been reading through these posts. It is interesting to see what others have to say about this issue. My partner had RE for many years. He has recently overcome it. I pretty much consider it a miracle that this finally happened. It only happened after he went for therapy, completely cut out the porn, and really cut down on masturbating. The impression I've gotten out of all of this is that this is the guys problem, not the partners. The partner can be supportive etc.. but it is up to the guy to do the hard work of fixing it.

What kind of therapy? How long did recovery take? How old is he and how long had he been masturbating to porn? How much did he masturbate and what constitutes cutting down?

And yes, it is the guy's problem but as you know, it sure doesn't feel that way an awful lot of the time!

"As a matter of fact I think it would be easier to teach a woman how to deal with the criticism then it would be to get an already anxious and fearful man to speak his mind during intercourse"

This is a statement I found very interesting. I am not sure, Brandt, you are entirely correct. I don't think there is much consideration for the womans feelings in this approach. And, how would the man feel if she was completely honest with him? He'd probably fall into a heap.. since he is already anxious and fearful. I can see why this is easier though, it is easier to criticise someone than face ones own inadequacies.

It almost sounds like RE men secretly hate women.

Everything is so much more complex than is appears on the surface. My partner was addicted to porn for many years before i found out about his addiction. Prior to me finding out he completely blamed me for his RE. He knew why he had the RE but since i didn't know. The hurt I feel from this is incredible. He may be 'cured' of his RE but our relationship is in tatters. I find it so difficult to trust him now. His RE was very closely tied to feeling of shame around sex taught to him when he was growing up.

Did he have primary RE or did he acquire it with the porn use? If he had primary RE, how did you feel marrying him with this problem? How long have you been married? How have you managed to cope all this time?

He told me during those years of decit that I was not sexual enough.. I didn't want to do the kinky stuff, I wasn't good enough etc etc. After a while I began to believe it. If he had been honest with himself, and maybe even honest with me, our relationship wouldn't be in the tatters it is today. He found it so easy to criticise me because it meant that he never had to look at his own anxieties and fears.

I'm sorry he took that approach. I know how much it must have hurt you. How much it STILL hurts you.

Are you going to therapy, too?

This is the part I'm having the most difficult time explaining to my own therapist -- the underlying trust issues.

What prompted your husband to tell you the truth? Was it that you finally discovered his porn use? Or did he volunteer? What made him decide to go into therapy and try to get cured? Was it his idea or did he do it in order to try to keep you?

What does he expect from you now that he's better? Is he working on gaining your forgiveness and trust?

One more thing about this idea of always being the giver and the thought that this might build up resentment over time :

If being the giver is fairly self-serving (just as lying is), then it is hardly a gift. It is another piece of delusional thinking. All of these compensatory behaviors are in order to protect the person from being found out. They're not really about giving to the partner. But the worst part of this is that it also prevents the person from being known.

If you don't show someone the real you for fear they won't like you or accept you, then you can never really be loved. And the entire time you know it so you feel like a fraud and your fragile self-image is plunged even further into the depths.

All of these behaviors wrapped up around RE are so self-defeating and damaging.

wife 2 wrote:"As a matter of fact I think it would be easier to teach a woman how to deal with the criticism then it would be to get an already anxious and fearful man to speak his mind during intercourse"

This is a statement I found very interesting. I am not sure, Brandt, you are entirely correct. I don't think there is much consideration for the womans feelings in this approach. And, how would the man feel if she was completely honest with him? He'd probably fall into a heap.. since he is already anxious and fearful. I can see why this is easier though, it is easier to criticize someone than face ones own inadequacies.

Well if you look at this as a type of couples therapy then you are correct. But this is not couples therapy because as you said yourself, it is totally the man's problem. In the "complaint technique" type of treatment the woman acts not as the man's wife but rather as a co-therapist with the Dr. It's a fairly easy job really because all she has to no is say nothing. But for women this can be painful which is why I suspect it is not widely used in Sex Therapy.

And as for how, if the situation was reversed, the man would feel, if he has good self esteem and really enjoys sex he should be willing to do or change pretty much anything to please his partner. Plus if he had the "giver" mentality of the typical RE sufferer, he would probably consider it his duty to do whatever it takes.

Even if they suffer low self esteem and take everything personally, men tend to be pretty goal oriented and if this technique was going to help his wife enjoy sex more I think he may take it on as an interesting protect..a kind of "home improvement" kind of thing.

But talking about reversing the situation doesn't really make much sense simply because male and female physiology is different. Unless there is some kind of serious physical problem with a woman's genitals, she can have sex whether she is aroused or not.

If a man is not aroused, nothing happens, penetration cannot occur. Unless he has RE.

It is a small miracle and a scientific oddity that some men with RE can actually get an erection at all, much less keep it up for a half hour at a time considering his sub optimal arousal level. Dr Apfelbaum has pointed out that at this same sub optimal level of arousal, men who don't suffer from RE would not even be able to get an erection at all.

Again, researchers believe this is all about these men feeling under pressure to be sexual "givers" so much so that this need to give can actually override the sexual anxiety causing the RE at least enough to achieve erection. Not all men can do this but enough that this had sex researchers scratching their heads for years (and coming up with some very bizarre theories as to why)

wife 2 wrote:Everything is so much more complex than is appears on the surface. My partner was addicted to porn for many years before i found out about his addiction. Prior to me finding out he completely blamed me for his RE. He knew why he had the RE but since i didn't know. The hurt I feel from this is incredible. He may be 'cured' of his RE but our relationship is in tatters. I find it so difficult to trust him now. His RE was very closely tied to feeling of shame around sex taught to him when he was growing up.

He told me during those years of deceit that I was not sexual enough.. I didn't want to do the kinky stuff, I wasn't good enough etc etc. After a while I began to believe it. If he had been honest with himself, and maybe even honest with me, our relationship wouldn't be in the tatters it is today. He found it so easy to criticize me because it meant that he never had to look at his own anxieties and fears.

As discussed before porn really throws a monkey wrench into the whole RE debate. Ten years ago porn and masturbation were never even considered as a cause for RE. But then the first "internet porn generation" started coming of age. All these young guys that had grown up masturbating to video porn on line. To their horror many began to find themselves suffering from sexual dysfunctions like erectile problems and more commonly, RE when they attempted sex with a real live partner, especially in an ongoing relationship. These guys began showing up on the Sex Therapy radar a few years ago and the number of RE cases took a huge jump. Sex Therapists began seeing more cases of RE and ever more puzzling (to them) was the ages of the patients. RE tended to be a disorder of older married men not 20 year old college students.

I don't know how old you and your husband are or whether he is part of this cohort, I'm guessing he's not.

So what your husband did was to blame everything under the sun for his RE. Why? Because he has no idea what was going on. Men want answers so he went down a long checklist. These weren't excuses as much as he was testing the waters trying to find a cause.

As I said in another post first they think it's the plumbing, then they blame the partner. All RE guys do this. I did it for 15 years. When I was single I went from partner to partner to partner trying to find someone who turned me on enough to have an orgasm with once the newness of the relationship wore off. when I couldn't find such a person I found fault in the partner, believed she was simply boring me and moved on. I left a long trail of angry, broken hearted and confused women in my wake and never realized why until just a few years ago. I had just explained it away to myself by believing I just happened to be the type of person who got sexually bored very easily...like after two or three sexual encounters.. Sounds strange, but some men have come up with even stranger explanations for their RE.

Porn is a mixed bag when it comes to RE.

RE men use porn because it is the only sexual experience they can have which they actually feel relaxed and comfortable enough to achieve an orgasm. But it can also cause RE during partner sex or simply make a mild case of RE worse. On the other hand, used as a couple therapy device in the bypassing techniques it can allow men to ejaculate with their wives present, often during intercourse, often for the very first time.

Men lie about using porn because they know women hate it and are threatened by it. They lie because telling the truth just heaps more stress onto the big pile that already exists in the sexual relationship. They are already anxious and ashamed and hurting right down to their central core being because their masculinity has been challenged. To them partner sex is a horror show where they either struggle hard to be the hero that confronts the monster and loses or they just try their best to avoid the monster in on the first place. That's often when porn enters the picture.

I would like to end this by saying that as intense a sexual experience masturbating to porn can be, I believe, after everything that I've read about sexual dysfunction, psychological disorders, Attachment Theory and heavy masturbation/porn use.....that pretty well ALL men would prefer a normal sexually functional relationship with a real person, someone they care about, and are committed to.

Men become sex addicts, have sex with hookers, go to strip clubs, have multiple affairs, and get deeply involved with porn because what seems like such a simple thing.... love, sex and companionship with a willing partner, is difficult or impossible for them because of deep psychological disorders with root causes in childhood and family of origin often combined with inherited brain chemistry dis- regulation that causes a long list of disorders that prevent normal sexual and social functioning. RE being but one of them.

brandt wrote:And So what your husband did was to blame everything under the sun for his RE. Why? Because he has no idea what was going on. Men want answers so he went down a long checklist. These weren't excuses as much as he was testing the waters trying to find a cause.

As I said in another post first they think it's the plumbing, then they blame the partner. All RE guys do this.

I thought you weren't going to make such sweeping generalizations. That's a pretty massive one. Not all RE men are jerks from the get-go. Not all RE men blame their partners.

I did it for 15 years. When I was single I went from partner to partner to partner trying to find someone who turned me on enough to have an orgasm with once the newness of the relationship wore off. I left a long trail of angry, broken hearted and confused women in my wake and never realized why until just a few years ago. I had just explained it away to myself by believing I just happened to be the type of person who got sexually bored very easily...like after two or three sexual encounters.. Sounds strange, but some men have come up with even stranger explanations for their RE.

I find the inability for these men to look at themselves first to be rather disconcerting. So not only do they have RE, they appear to have a huge personality problem. And having RE isn't an excuse for being a jerk.

And since I know that not all RE men are jerks, I think you need to be careful not to extrapolate your experience as being representative of all RE men.

--

Also, there are plenty of men who are of an older generation that got into porn well before the age of the internet. I think it is dangerous to get into this idea that (porn+RE = younger guys). And I know you know this but I feel the need to point it out.

Porn can cause RE.

Porn can be a symptom of a guy with personal issues -- well before a woman comes into the picture.

Or Porn can be a result of RE.

To answer 'Wonderful Day'

What kind of therapy? How long did recovery take? How old is he and how long had he been masturbating to porn? How much did he masturbate and what constitutes cutting down?

And yes, it is the guy's problem but as you know, it sure doesn't feel that way an awful lot of the time!

He went to a sex therapist who also does couples counselling. He went a couple of time alone then we went together for about six months. He then continued for another six months. The therapist mainly uses a narrative approach with (i suspect) some diluted CBT. He also used what seemed to be a systemic approach. My husbands recovery took just over a year. That seems like a long time but it aint much compared to how long he had RE.

He is in his early-mid 30's and had been watching porn since his mid teens. He started watching porn before his first real sexual encounter (which I suspect is an important factor in the development of RE). His porn consumption began at only a couple of times a week and grew to be everyday. He was masturbating once to twice a day. He decided to cut down to once a week after the whole porn thing come out into the open.

I blamed myself until I found out about the porn. It all clicked after that... lots of things began to make sense. Every now and then I've doubted myself but I remind myself that he had RE long before he met me. I also remind myself I never had such problems with a guy prior to my husband.

It almost sounds like RE men secretly hate women.

I don't think they hate women. I think that some are afraid of women but are unwilling to admit it.

Did he have primary RE or did he acquire it with the porn use? If he had primary RE, how did you feel marrying him with this problem? How long have you been married? How have you managed to cope all this time?

It seems that you are asking me why I married him knowing about his RE. I loved him. When I married my husband I was so in love with him. I knew we had that problem between the sheets but he is a wonderful man in so many other ways. I decided that I would accept the whole package when I married him... RE and all. I still love my husband now ...just with a really bruised heart.

This is the part I'm having the most difficult time explaining to my own therapist -- the underlying trust issues.

What prompted your husband to tell you the truth? Was it that you finally discovered his porn use? Or did he volunteer? What made him decide to go into therapy and try to get cured? Was it his idea or did he do it in order to try to keep you?

What does he expect from you now that he's better? Is he working on gaining your forgiveness and trust?

I suggest changing therapists. My therapist got it right away. The sex/couples therapist also got it. That therapist was crucial in helping my husband understand how much he'd hurt me by hiding things and blaming his problems on me. Few other poeple understand though... most seem to think that because he didn't sleep with anyone else then there shouldn't be a problem. Ha! Try feeling like you are being compared to porn star!

I found out about his porn use one day by mistake. I was looking around on the computer for something and discovered it. For a long time I suspected that something was wrong. I could feel that he was hiding something from me but I didn't know what it was. I knew he wasn't cheating on me but I never guessed the porn. He always acted anti-porn... I guess to throw me off the scent. I even asked him if he was keeping something from me but he always denied it. Interestingly, he didn't stop watching porn either. You know, he'd still be watching porn today if I hadn't caught him.

My husband went to therapy because I told him to go or to be out by the following weekend. It sounds harsh but I was so furious and so hurt at his decit.

He is working to gain my forgiveness and trust. We are still together so its working. I have to admit that we are still very much on tenderhooks. He says that he didn't realise the connection between his RE and his porn, hence him blaming me all those years. I don't believe him. He is an extremely intelligent human being so I don't see how he didn't make the connection. So... sadly, I still feel like he is lying to me in a way. I am still so confused.

brandt wrote:

It's a fairly easy job really because all she has to no is say nothing. But for women this can be painful which is why I suspect it is not widely used in Sex Therapy.

To sit there and say nothing as you get told exactly what your partner doesn't like about you or thinks is wrong with your technique is painful for anyone... woman or man.

...Plus if he had the "giver" mentality of the typical RE sufferer, he would probably consider it his duty to do whatever it takes.

Even if they suffer low self esteem and take everything personally, men tend to be pretty goal oriented and if this technique was going to help his wife enjoy sex more I think he may take it on as an interesting protect..a kind of "home improvement" kind of thing.

If men's identity is wrapped up in their penis (and I quote from an earlier post) I doubt they would take such forthright feedback on their identity/sense of self/sexuality very well. In my personal experience men are extremely senstive about feedback regarding sex. You really have to cotton wool it so they don't get ultra defensive.

But talking about reversing the situation doesn't really make much sense simply because male and female physiology is different. Unless there is some kind of serious physical problem with a woman's genitals, she can have sex whether she is aroused or not.

This is not true. If a woman is not aroused it can be uncomfortable, or even painful, to have sex without lots of lube. This is something that prostitutes may have mastered but in a regular relationship/hook up, a woman does need to be aroused. Besides... why would you want to have sex with a woman who isn't aroused by you. Anyway, I digress.

As discussed before porn really throws a monkey wrench into the whole RE debate. Ten years ago porn and masturbation were never even considered as a cause for RE. But then the first "internet porn generation" started coming of age. All these young guys that had grown up masturbating to video porn on line. To their horror many began to find themselves suffering from sexual dysfunctions like erectile problems and more commonly, RE when they attempted sex with a real live partner, especially in an ongoing relationship. These guys began showing up on the Sex Therapy radar a few years ago and the number of RE cases took a huge jump. Sex Therapists began seeing more cases of RE and ever more puzzling (to them) was the ages of the patients. RE tended to be a disorder of older married men not 20 year old college students.

Yeah, I've heard this too. My husband certainly fits inot this category.

So what your husband did was to blame everything under the sun for his RE. Why? Because he has no idea what was going on. Men want answers so he went down a long checklist. These weren't excuses as much as he was testing the waters trying to find a cause.

... Sounds strange, but some men have come up with even stranger explanations for their RE.

If men go down a checklist why don't they put themselves on that checklist? They could look at their anxieties, their general views of women, their fears about performance, their porn consumption, the role of masturbation in their lives. Nope... it's always gotta be something outside of themselves. Men are supposedly such rational creatures. I don't think so.

To them partner sex is a horror show where they either struggle hard to be the hero that confronts the monster and loses or they just try their best to avoid the monster in on the first place.

The most helpful thing that the sex/couples therapist ever said to my husband was not to focus so much on me during sex. He was getting himself so wound up about being a performer (like the men in porn) that he couldn't perform! Once he really began to allow himself to focus on his own pleasure during sex, he was able to ejaculate no problemo.

It is sad though that sex (and indeed women) could be seen as a monster..... something to be feared no doubt?

I would like to end this by saying that as intense a sexual experience masturbating to porn can be, I believe, after everything that I've read about sexual dysfunction, psychological disorders, Attachment Theory and heavy masturbation/porn use.....that pretty well ALL men would prefer a normal sexually functional relationship with a real person, someone they care about, and are committed to.

After reading this post I talked to my husband about it. He certainly agreed with you on this last point.... which is nice

Two points I'd like to make on your discussion.

1) I do not think that most men with RE believe that the cause of their RE resides in external factors. External factor are used as excuses to try and navigate through relationships, but there is deep introspection going on. I knew from very early on it was about me, and I'm sure most RE men are the same.

2) I'm not sure the whole "Men with RE hate women" or "Men with RE are afraid of women" lines of reasoning have any substance to them. I know they are completely invalid in my case at least. That being said, I can see why, as a bruised partner, you would think so. Seems like a logical progression from the "is it me?" emotion a partner goes through initially.

Thanks for chiming in Gin. I was hoping you'd say something. Just from reading on the "big" thread I knew that all RE men weren't jerks. And my husband is not one of the guys who has blamed women. That said, I do think he has anxiety about women... and about a lot of things.

It is so hard grappling with trust because of the lies that accompany RE. And it does make me wonder which came first -- lying as a rule or RE. It really could be either in that the same things that cause RE could be the "family of origin" stuff that made lying preferable to the truth. Fear of who knows what.

Wife 2 : I agree that it seems unlikely that your husband didn't know about the connection between porn and his problem. He had to have at least considered it. And the fact that he hid it from you for all those years means he knew he was doing something hurtful to you and something that was damaging overall. You don't hide something you are proud of. It would seem to me that he needs to admit this last thing for you to really trust him. If he still denies and avoids culpability, he's still essentially saying "it isn't my fault".

Something your husband and mine have in common is the ability to hold onto self-delusion. It is very worrying.

Anyway, I too married my husband knowing he had RE. But I've also struggled with it for the entire time. I've struggled with how it makes me feel about myself personally (questioning my attractiveness, my ability in bed, etc. And having had a good track record before him really hasn't helped. Afterall, he's the guy I want to attract!), guilt, and mostly the accompanying trust issues. Do I even know the man I married? What else don't I know that is going to bite me?

--

I'd bet dollars to donuts that the pattern of lost relationships w/RE has a lot more to do with the air of deception and lack of self-knowledge that accompanies RE than trouble accepting RE. (All bets are off for someone who is a jerk though -- I suspect they'd be a jerk even w/o RE so a woman leaving them is really just desserts in that case.) This part of RE is avoidable.

wow. I started searching the web for some insight into what exactly was going on between bf and me, and stumbled upon the big RE thread. By far the most complete and realistic discussion of the topic - very helpful.
Now I'm going to ask for a little help. Bf definitely has situational RE - moderately affected if I had to estimate. Can orgasm through a combination of testicle/anal stimulation on my part combined w/ masturbation on his part. Can occasionally come in me if he's masturbated pretty much to the point of no return and slips it in.
I'm pretty sure part of the problem is this unique grip/motion combination he's developed - no way my vagina's EVER going to be able to do that. I also suspect part of the issue is connected to a deep-seated anxiety about emotional intimacy. Don't think he's too much of a porn user, but he's definitely got the detailed intense fantasy fascination combined with a daily masturbation habit.
I love love love this man, and he's expressed a desire to have things be a little different between us. Mainly he gets frustrated and tired, and I just get sad because it sure would be nice if he could come with me without having to revert to the fantasy-role playing bit. I actually am pretty into that, and I think most folks would think I'm pretty uninhibited when it come to trying more... adventurous practices that he's fantasized about, but it still doesn't always get him where he wants to go.

So, I'm taking suggestions from both guys and girls - what would be a good way to help him? He wants things different, and I've promised to stick by him through the process of working things out. I think he's going to have to re-condition himself to something other than the sensations provided by his hand. And stop masturbating every day. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't come with a partner either if I masturbated every single day with a vibrator...the sensations are too different and your sex drive is decreased. So what's the nicest way to get this across? I've also thought about taking the orgasm part completely out of sex for awhile - he doesn't get to focus on mine (which he does - almost compulsively) and I don't worry about his. Just not freakin' think about it for a couple times and see what happens - maybe just a really long foreplay session??

As for the anxiety, there's no way I can undo what the lousy endings of his previous 3 serious relationships did. I'd just like to be able to communicate to him that I love him, I value him, and there's no way I'm giving up because he's just too great of a person.

omg. I'm wrapping up this gigantic post now. Thanks for reading and thanks even more for your feedback.

K-V

Hi all,
It's been awhile since I've been on here...I guess I was taking it easy this summer.
I don't really have any new news to report on. Things are basically the same.
WonderfulDay, thanks for the nice post about me on the other thread. That was so sweet!
I agree about the anxiety issue...I think my bf definitely has anxieties about women and lots of things, and he says the same thing about himself.
I also agree w/ this: "I'd bet dollars to donuts that the pattern of lost relationships w/RE has a lot more to do with the air of deception and lack of self-knowledge that accompanies RE than trouble accepting RE."
My bf and I almost broke up over this very thing months ago. Sometimes I can't understand why he can't talk to me openly and honestly about it. It's like nothing is ever brought up without me prodding and probing. In fact, if I wasn't so damned nosey to begin with, I'd probably still be thinking that he really just isn't that attracted to me, which is the worse thing for all parties to be going on.
When there's so much confusion, that's when things really start to hurt and tear people up.
But also, sometimes my ignorance is bliss. Like, recently I've been thinking that sex is getting better and he's feeling so much better (partly because he's expressing more in bed, which was something that I complained to him that he wasn't doing). But when I flat out asked him about a month ago how he feels about sex lately, and he was basically like, "It's okay...pretty much the same." And I'm like, "So, you're not feeling better? Because it seems like you are?" And he's like, "Well, I'm still not finishing with you, so I can't really say it's good."
That knocked me down a couple of stairs. I kinda wished I didn't ask him, but then again, if I'm living with false notions, then eventually that'll catch up with me.