What Distinguishes Schizotypals from Avoidants?

I realize the two are co-morbid... but is the main distinguishing characteristic paranoia vs social phobia?

"defines Schizotypal personality disorder as "A pervasive pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:"

1. Ideas of reference (excluding delusions of reference)
2. Odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or "sixth sense"; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations)
3. Unusual perceptual experiences, including bodily illusions
4. Odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped)
5. Suspiciousness or paranoid ideation
6. Inappropriate or constricted affect
7. Behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar
8. Lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
9. Excessive social anxiety that does not diminish with familiarity and tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self


"The American Psychiatric Association's DSM-IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines avoidant personality disorder as a "pervasive pattern of social inhibition, feelings of inadequacy, and hypersensitivity to negative evaluation, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:"

1. Avoids occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact, because of fears of criticism, disapproval, or rejection
2. Is unwilling to get involved with people unless certain of being liked
3. Shows restraint within intimate relationships because of the fear of being shamed, ridiculed, or rejected
4. Is preoccupied with being criticized or rejected in social situations
5. Is inhibited in new interpersonal situations because of feelings of inadequacy
6. Views self as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others
7. Is unusually reluctant to take personal risks or to engage in any new activities because they may prove embarrassing

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I'm interested in what they mean by thinking and speech being odd, but usually undetected by others?

My speech tends to be extremely vague -when I do talk -unless I'm prompted to explain, it's like I generalize everything (really applicable generalizations, but still vague)...

I'm starting to notice I have a lot of ideas of reference that are totally irrational... but also believable, not totally off the wall (if any of them are right I haven't had the guts to validate them - I never act on any of them). I have had some crazy ones too though...

strugglebox wrote:I realize the two are co-morbid... but is the main distinguishing characteristic paranoia vs social phobia?

The schizotypal's paranoia has a somewhat "schizophrenic" nature and involves a lot of magical thinking (believing that what you think can affect reality). For example an avoidant might be afraid to go outside of his home because of fear of being judged by his looks, his way of being, etc. A schizotypal might be afraid to go outside because he believes that people are out to get him, for example disguised double agents that work for the government that would kidnap him for some nefarious purpose. Schizotypy involves a lot of "conspiracy" thinking and might believe that other people are part of a grand scheme against them and that the member of that scheme might have special powers like mind reading, etc. An avoidant usually doesn't have that "magical thinking" element in their paranoia.

Schizotypal personality disorder can be seen as mild schizophrenia. The person isn't psychotic, but have weird irrational thinking that is cognitive based instead of emotionally based. (IE: They will think "I think that person is reading my thoughts." instead of "I think that person hates me." like an avoidant would.)

strugglebox wrote:I'm interested in what they mean by thinking and speech being odd, but usually undetected by others?

The "odd speech" of schizotypal is usually very easy to detect by a rational person because of the "magical" element in it. Talking to a schizotypal will eventually make you notice that his speech isn't completely related to "reality". They might for example try to explain to you that they need to watch that foolball game, because the winning of their team depends on them watching the game.

strugglebox wrote:I'm starting to notice I have a lot of ideas of reference that are totally irrational... but also believable, not totally off the wall (if any of them are right I haven't had the guts to validate them - I never act on any of them). I have had some crazy ones too though...

Schizotypy involves a lot of idea of references. That random events, people and things are related to them in an important way. The item can be completely random too. For example they might see a glass of water on a table and feel so connected to it as to almost feel an energy coming out of it.

To oversimplify, I could say that avoidants have an overreactive emotionality and schizotypals have an overreactive cognition.

Hmm... interesting, I guess I'm still in the avoidant camp based on that definition.

I certainly don't have the kind of cognitions that a paranoid schizophrenic would have on a regular basis; and generally speaking my ideas of reference usually have to do with people -they like me, or they hate me kind of thing...

strugglebox wrote:and generally speaking my ideas of reference usually have to do with people -they like me, or they hate me kind of thing...

Ideas of reference is to think that a random event is related to you.

For example you see two people in the distance laughing, and you end up thinking that they are laughing at you.

You see somebody sneeze in a restaurant and you think that it somewhat has something to do with you.

You see a glove in the middle of the street and end up thinking that this is somebody sending you a signal.

It can be anything really... but it is always a feeling that something random was specifically about you.

so if one sees the same number over and over and thinks that number was basically placed there for them then it would be an idea of reference? I sometimes get other ideas of reference... I'll hear a complete stranger laugh and I'll think it's about me, things like that.

What about number 9?

9. Excessive social anxiety that does not diminish with familiarity and tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self

What does it mean by negative judgements about self? Is it like thinking that since I am the worthless scumbag that I am of course you'll laugh at me?

Criterion 9 basically means that the social anxiety stems from becoming paranoid and thinking people will hurt you, rather than thinking they're going to judge you in a negative way and this does not go away, even when one is familiar with the person/people they are around.

Ex.

Schizotypal: I won't go out because I think people are reading my mind and will use my thoughts against me. (Can be considered an extreme example)
Avoidant: I won't go out because I'm afraid of not being accepted and this hurts me.

Schizotypals are generally more worried about malicious intentional harm than they are about people disliking them. And they tend to not trust people no matter what. Avoidants will grow to like someone and their trust will be raised once they feel they are more familiar with the person/people they are around.

I experience all manner of ways of avoiding people. from fearing them to feeling above them, or bored by them. It has become so entrenched now, being alone, that I no longer need a reason.

I couldn't ever imagine anything else.

The internet is a perfect means of interacting in a way that suits me.

No way anyone can come around to my flat and stress me with their funny little ways. And no chit chat. I only want to discuss vital things. That's why delusions are so needed to fill the spiritual gap of knowledge.

I actually get anxious looking at pictures of human faces on the internet, as I feel their spirit looking into me.

Perhaps.

I feel that looking into their eyes attacks my Acausal consciousness, thought feelings I have found to be more correct than thought. Thought is manipulation.

Though the forces in the Acausal did use numbers, symbols, and vibrations to connect to my consciousness, as I built a bridge in the void to connect to them. Too bad this world has wrested me of my consciousness for a while, as my sleep patterns are disrupted.

Well we are in our minds, I think I want to leave back home.


/-\__/-\

What do you mean by acausal? I can't find a solid definition.

My name" albie" may seem ordinary. But it is shortened from albatross. Which is an anagram of my real name.
The symbology of the albatross is connected to how I see myself.

Being a warning of doom. A ghost. A curse (if I'm messed with).

I was quite taken aback when I realised my name was an anagram of this bird.

The bird itself stands a distance away from humanity, but is there, on the edge.

besides having magical, religious and metaphysical concerns etc... a schizotypal may experience paranoid delusions during periods of intense negative stress, that's main the difference...

here my vision to understand this,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBUoCyqhbXI