Would you rather be Schizoid or Borderline

schizoid is actually borderline with a lot of emotional repression though!

i guess one tends toward certain symptoms though... i tend to be both. maybe it just alternates really really fast based on thought triggers, since my mind never shuts up even when i'm not paying attention to it :>

imaduck wrote:schizoid is actually borderline with a lot of emotional repression though!

No. They are totally separate disorders with some very fundamental differences that go well beyond emotional repression or lack thereof.

I have no doubt that there are borderlines who wind up in a schizoid state due to emotional repression.

I've also anecdotally heard that borderlines often self-diagnose themselves as schizoids, and I know we've had threads like that on this forum.

There are significant overlaps and comorbidities between the borderline and schizotypal disorders. Possibly this is a better avenue to pursue.

WichitaLineman wrote:

imaduck wrote:schizoid is actually borderline with a lot of emotional repression though!

No. They are totally separate disorders with some very fundamental differences that go well beyond emotional repression or lack thereof.

I have no doubt that there are borderlines who wind up in a schizoid state due to emotional repression.

I've also anecdotally heard that borderlines often self-diagnose themselves as schizoids, and I know we've had threads like that on this forum.

There are significant overlaps and comorbidities between the borderline and schizotypal disorders. Possibly this is a better avenue to pursue.

can you elaborate on a schizoid state vs. schizoid personality disorder, then? what fundamental differences?

to be more precise, i do not necessarily believe that "borderline" and "schizoid" really exist BECAUSE there is so much overlap between all of the different disorders, so much unpredictability in individual symptoms, so much variance--usually when a person confines themselves to a diagnosis do they absorb the symptoms into themselves, in a way, to assume the identity of that diagnosis. but the potential is already there--it's just self-manipulation to achieve an identity that seems "close" to what you feel like. i think all people with some kind of trauma and emotional/identity disturbances (and possibly neurology, which i believe can be altered with a forward-bound mind if truly, truly desired) compensate on a variety of extreme levels with a myriad of colors which bleed into one another.

imaduck wrote:can you elaborate on a schizoid state vs. schizoid personality disorder, then? what fundamental differences?

You could very easily read the FAQ threads for each.

imaduck wrote:to be more precise, i do not necessarily believe that "borderline" and "schizoid" really exist BECAUSE there is so much overlap between all of the different disorders, so much unpredictability in individual symptoms, so much variance--usually when a person confines themselves to a diagnosis do they absorb the symptoms into themselves, in a way, to assume the identity of that diagnosis.

Then you don't understand the point of having personality disorder diagnoses. There are a select few who read the diagnosis and become it. There is a large majority who have the disorder and then either get diagnosed or learn what it is and deal with it on their own. You're thinking about PDs as a shopping list where you pick and chose to fulfill it while instead you should be thinking of them as telling a blind black person that they are black. They are what they are even if they can't see it. Humans generally find things easier to understand and deal with things when they can categorize them.

imaduck wrote: i think all people with some kind of trauma and emotional/identity disturbances (and possibly neurology, which i believe can be altered with a forward-bound mind if truly, truly desired) compensate on a variety of extreme levels with a myriad of colors which bleed into one another.

This is called being human. They're flawed. All of them. Some are flawed in ways that are permanent and that make it difficult to live with the rest of humanity. These are the "disordered". The diagnoses identify those people and help them learn how to connect with others like regular humans do.

imaduck wrote:can you elaborate on a schizoid state vs. schizoid personality disorder, then? what fundamental differences?

Well....Google is your friend....


...but, I would say that IMO, most of those diagnosed with schizoid personality disorder are people who have wound up in a schizoid state because of some traumatic emotional experience somewhere along the way in their lives. There is a large contingent of psychologists influenced by Freud, who believe that this trauma occurs in early childhood- often in the first few weeks of infancy - causing emotional damage severe enough that the person spends the rest of his/her life emotionally impaired. These schizoids have a rather short emotional fuse, or otherwise have limited tolerance for the emotional needs and demands of others (that they come to this state via trauma explains the apparent incongruity noticed by non-schizoids who wonder why they have short fuses when it comes to anger rather than the very long fuses you'd expect in theory). These patients are not necessarily schizoid at birth, or by nature, but are driven into a schizoid- like state by environmental factors.

So there is no real difference here....but not everyone who is "schizoid" comes at it via this way.

imaduck wrote:to be more precise, i do not necessarily believe that "borderline" and "schizoid" really exist BECAUSE there is so much overlap between all of the different disorders, so much unpredictability in individual symptoms, so much variance--usually when a person confines themselves to a diagnosis do they absorb the symptoms into themselves, in a way, to assume the identity of that diagnosis. but the potential is already there--it's just self-manipulation to achieve an identity that seems "close" to what you feel like.

So.... *poof*....if there's no psychology as a discipline....there's no need for psychology as a discipline.... Is that what you're saying?

I don't see a great deal of overlap between schizoid and borderline, but perhaps you could explain it to me.

well schizoids and borderlines are both hard to "read" haha.

I agree that I have sent my self into a schizoid state, but my overly sensitive emotions to abandonment are undeniable... I didnt force my self to be hyper sensitive to rejection and abandonment.

> often in the first few weeks of infancy - causing emotional damage severe enough that the person spends the rest of his/her life emotionally impaired.

first few weeks? interesting...

tell you what, i'll do some research and may be willing to screw up my theory a little if i find any significant discrepancies (i'm pretty selfish--i adopt and advocate my views to enforce perceptions that are geared toward growth and unlimited potential, since perceptions shape our reality ). if there are aspects i've overlooked in favor of projecting, i'll be glad to tease them out of hiding.

ONE THING that i have not considered completely is this:

>flawed in ways that are permanent

is there proof that permanence a reality?

imaduck wrote:>flawed in ways that are permanent

is there proof that permanence a reality?

How about the fact that there is no proven treatment to cure personality disorders and that even with years of intense treatment, only a minuscule handful of individuals experience what professionals would consider full, permanent remission of disordered thinking patterns? And THAT is for BPD that has been heavily researched because people find it exciting and interesting and sad so they feel the need to help these poor suffering individuals. The rest of the PDs are either too scary, too annoying, too obscure, or too boring for anyone to care. Feel free to fight me on that but what other PD has a specialized, sometimes inpatient, program built specifically as a treatment to help them?

Maybe it is just the product of human apathy and ignorance that these other PDs don't have that level of research and dedication to learn if they can be partially "cured" but we'll probably never know.

what is a "cure"? i simply asked if permanence is a reality--which it is not. it is not just "i have a PD" or "i don't have a PD"--life is a process, there is no end goal, just small ones along the way. change is always happening, but in the end it's not about relying on research or shrinks; you simply have to be aware of yourself and your "ways" and have a strong resolve to change for yourself. if you truly believe that you can't get better, why would you try at all?

BUT in the end, it is more about DEALING in a way that doesn't hurt you (and if you're hurting other people, you're probably hurting yourself) and making the best out of your condition. focusing on the "i can't change" part is useless compared to focusing on the "i'm going to be great" part. maybe it's just my black and white thinking, but i can't do both at once, haha. well, not yet--trying to find balance!

Thanks duck, your post makes me happy hehe