schizoid and depression?

How common is it for schizoids to suffer from depression?

I have written before about my friend's son who I think is schizoid. He's now 21, never had any friends, never had any interests outside of playing computer games in his parents basement. He's always had good grades, but no real direction in school. Last spring he was a junior in college. After two years of really good grades he stopped going to class and his grades when way down. He lied to his parents, told them his grades were good. They are so clueless that he showed them a report card from a different year and they never noticed. He went back to university in August but didn't go to classes. He's now told his parents the truth and dropped out of college. He never leaves his parent's basement, staying down there playing computer games or watching television. He saw a psychologist once. The psychologist said that he couldn't help him and that he really needed to see a psychiatrist. No action has been taken. The young man tells his parents that he's depressed. His parents never noticed any change of behavior, they were shocked that he hasn't been attending classes since last Spring. They are so clueless. His parents have never been able to make him work, except this past summer when they forced him to work at the neighborhood pool. He hates working. He won't go to college classes. He sounds depressed to me. Or is this typical schizoid behavior? He will not leave the basement. His parents are totally clueless, they've always said that he's 'weird', but didn't seem to think that his weirdness was a problem. His dad calls him asocial and says that the boy just doesn't get along with anyone, peers or adults. They now think his current refusal to leave the basement is a 'bump in the road' but have no real ideas about how to help him. Mostly they are upset that he won't graduate in the spring and move out of their basement. Is this realistic? Should they be more concerned that he's seriously depressed?

What do you all think? How common is depression among schizoids? Do anti depressive medications help? I'm scared that this young man could suicide. Or might he simply be schizoid and happy to be left alone in the basement, without having to go to school or work? He did tell his parents that he thought he was depressed. Why would a good student suddenly stop going to class, in his 3rd year of college?

Thank you for any thoughts and/or ideas. I'd feel terrible if he was seriously depressed and no one did anything to help him. How often are schizoids also depressed? Can it be treated?

Hi, Janie,
Yes, depression is very common amongst schizoids.
This young man is possibly depressed, but worse yet, he is able to not have to take any action to help himself because he has the sanctuary of his parents' basement. He doesn't have to get his own food or shelter. It's a sweet deal, but a gilded cage. As long as he is allowed to mushroom in the basement he will have no motivation to seek help for any depression.
I'm not saying kick the poor kid out on his own; but get him out of the basement and place him in a position of having to deal with the rest of the family in a more active way than hiding away. I cringe when I say this, as I myself am "hiding" in a cabin in the woods, but I do have to deal with the outside world and make a living. If he never learns that he wil be crippled just a surely as if he were blind or deaf. Its just not practical to live in the basement open ended.
His parents have got to take matters in hand if they want him to function as an adult. Depression can be treated. But first the person afflicted must be noticed. How his parents missed all these red flags is somewhat shocking, but if he was lying to them it was probably easy enough to just not see the downward spiral. Denial on their part is a big key factor here. They should have sought help for this kid years ago.
At least getting him to the point where he can leave the basement on his own and fend for himself a little would be good for starters. He may always be a solitary soul, but hopefully not a helpless one.

Thanks Puma for your quick response. Your insights are so valuable to me.

How might his parents force him out of the basement? He was living on campus during the week but always came home on weekends. He never made any friends at college or had any real connection to the campus. He's never had a job or internship. Should his parents insist that he work? His parents have always treated all family members as if they were roommates, no real emotional connections, no real attachments. I'm not sure they could force him to do anything since they've never been able to in the past. They've never like him being in the basement all summer and all weekends, but seem to be at a loss as to what to do about it. What would you suggest?

Do you think that the parents should make an appointment with a psychiatrist and take him to the appointment? If they don't do that, I don't seem him ever going on his own. I don't know if that is because he's so depressed that it's just too hard for him or if because he's schizoid he sees no reason to go.

I agree that he has to learn to function in the world for there to be any chance of him functioning without their help. They're both in their 60's and about to retire. He can't live with them forever. Or maybe he can, his grandparents are alive, living in their own house, well into their 90's. I suppose this young man could live with his parents for decades but that wouldn't thrill them and it doesn't seem to me that it would be good for him either.

Each member or this family operates independently, mom in the family room watching junk television, dad in his study, son in the basement. Older brother (who doesn't get along with younger brother, at all) lives on his own. They do sometimes eat dinner together and son is dragged out of the basement for that. It's always been a rather odd family without much connection to each other. Just roommates. Is this also common with schizoids?

This is kind of off topic...

But how can a schizoid be depressed when they are void of emotion? I always thought the really anhedonic types to be apathetic even about that...

To the OP:

I've met a quite a few people who match the your description of your friend's son. Most of them, despite their social apathy tend to have a great deal of fun online and may or may not be very knowledgeable about computers and programming, hacking or other computer tasks. Unless he explicitly looks or acts sad (not just blank and apathetic) then he probably isn't depressed.

Janie wrote:Each member or this family operates independently, mom in the family room watching junk television, dad in his study, son in the basement. Older brother (who doesn't get along with younger brother, at all) lives on his own.

It's always been a rather odd family without much connection to each other. Just roommates. Is this also common with schizoids?

\

That's basically like my family... except me and my younger brother get along great, we worked out differences over the years. My parents barely even speak to each other and we are each doing our own separate thing.

puma wrote:This young man is possibly depressed, but worse yet, he is able to not have to take any action to help himself because he has the sanctuary of his parents' basement. He doesn't have to get his own food or shelter. It's a sweet deal, but a gilded cage. As long as he is allowed to mushroom in the basement he will have no motivation to seek help for any depression.

That is not true for most depressives; rather, they would want to
leave their depressive state behind, but they don't necessarily
know what to do, nor have the energy take action.

At least getting him to the point where he can leave the basement on his own and fend for himself a little would be good for starters.

I would recommend against that until the depression is under
control. Attempting to force him to do something he doesn't
want may be the reason he needs to decide that suicide is his
best option.

How his parents missed all these red flags is somewhat shocking, but if he was lying to them it was probably easy enough to just not see the downward spiral. Denial on their part is a big key factor here.

I was able to keep up the facade, and keep most of my grades
excellent all the way until I was supposed to write the final paper
for my degree. Although the drugs got rid of the negative feelings
that gave rise to suicidal thoughts, the schizoid symptoms have
remained stable or worsened.

Janie wrote:Each member or this family operates independently, mom in the family room watching junk television, dad in his study, son in the basement. Older brother (who doesn't get along with younger brother, at all) lives on his own. They do sometimes eat dinner together and son is dragged out of the basement for that. It's always been a rather odd family without much connection to each other. Just roommates. Is this also common with schizoids?

This whole family seems to share a schizoid like dynamic. If it is working for them, in spite of not being the mythical idealized interactive family, fine.
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/special_repo ... edonia.htm
Depression is very common with anhedonia.

People with anhedonia have an incredibly flat mood. They can't react properly or feel anything. There is no variation of mood, making it difficult to take things forward.

This can be profoundly depressing, like being encased in a block of lucite in a swamp in Mordor forever.
If you know this youth well enough to actually enter into his life, and help him see a doctor should he be willing, that might be something to consider. But be prepared to be rebuffed; this family seems content in its own way with each person going in his or her own introverted direction.

Wow! You guys are so great, so very helpful.

I too find it shocking that his family never noticed the changes but he has always spent so much time in the basement and this is not a family where individuals ask each other questions. Mom has never been interested in this boy. She says she doesn't know anything about him because he never has an opinion on anything. I suspect that she's never asked him anything. Yes, they all do seem to be happy with their lack of communication and lack of interaction. The parents married, but always treated each other like roommates, very separate people who know little about each other. Nor do they care much about each other. Mom doesn't like dad and doesn't like this son. She adores her older son, he's always been 'perfect'. In the past she's said that she wished she'd stopped after the perfect son. The two boys hate each other, they always have. Mom has always allowed perfect son to treat his younger brother like crap.

I used the word depression because that was how Dad described it. The roommate parents divided up ALL the responsibilities and each parent was in charge of one son. Mom was in charge of perfect son and dad this younger son. It was dad who said that son was depressed. I don't really know if the young man used that word. Dad said that he felt 'naive' for not having noticed that son had changed, and that the report card he showed them in May was a year old. I find 'naive' an odd choice of words.

Now it's Dad who is looking for a psychiatrist for the son. Dad told us that son had seen a psychologist who told him to go to a psychiatrist. BUT, dad said psychologist made no referrals, didn't tell son who to see. I don't believe that. I suspect son has a list of psychiatrists but can't bring himself to call and get to an appointment. If the son is suffering from depression, I totally agree that this has to get under control first and a psychiatrist can help. I also agree that if depressed son will not do it on his own. He doesn't seem to have the energy to do anything.

SOOOO...........based on everything here, I am going to get a referral tomorrow for a doctor, a psychiatrist. I will then call the dad, give him the name, and explain that he will have to call for the appointment and drive the son to it. I am SOOOO afraid that this boy will attempt suicide if something doesn't happen soon. His parents would never think of that either. These people never seem to know what's going on around them and they certainly don't know anything about emotions since it appears that they experience none. I feel like only my husband and I have any clue what the boy is going through. His parents treat it like such a minor thing, a minor inconvenience to THEIR lives. Neither parent is in any hurry to help him to resolve the issues. They've always thought he spent too much time in the basement, and that he needed to socialize, but other than grumble about him, and fuss at him, they don't actually do anything to help.

If the boy is schizoid, as I have long thought, that probably won't change. Right? But he can get over the depression and possibly return to finish college. Right? His parents are not happy with his major, writing, because the lack of jobs would probably mean graduate school. There's just nothing this boy can do right, is there? Breaks my heart for him. He deserves better parents, ones who actually like him and enjoy his company.

Thank you all so much for your help. Please feel free to criticize my plan, and to offer any suggestions or ideas. I just want to help this boy before we lose him.

Hi, Janie. Again.

As in the case of that family, my parents never talk to each other except to argue and also demand different responsabilities to each of their children, apart from age issues. Although that probably taught him injustice from an early age, I doubt that his education made him like that. He's probably schizoid, if he is, from an early age.

The catch about being schizoid is that you won't admit you have a problem, because that ends up forcing undesirable people into your life. But when you are seriously depressed you feel as you aren't worthy of living and that your situation is beyond help, or that in any case it'll pass, even if the depressed person can't patch himself up in most of the cases. In mine, I didn't think that going to a therapist was going to solve anything, but now I feel reasonably better. Still, if he'd ever agree to go it would with the help of someone he trusts enough. If for him you are just a friend of his parents or someone they know, he won't cooperate.

Curing his depression, if he's really depressed, won't mean he will finish college. Most college environments are hell for schizoids, or at least in my country they are. You are supposed to bond with peers to progress, are forced to do group assignments, and in general to deal with the annoyance of being near half a hundred or a hundred people class after class. Then again, apart from feeling drained in public, I experience anxiety. That's not too common among other schizoids. Some of the members of these forums have graduated, although I have no idea how they were able to make it.

Do you want to help him live a life he'd like to live or do you want him to live the life you think would be valuable?

Hey, Janie.

I can somewhat relate to your friend's son. Perhaps what I write can bring some insight. I'm a 21 year-old student and I have been in a really apathetic mood for some time. While I didn't quit my studies entirely I decided to give up on my second major completely and I had thoughts to give up studying entirely. I definitely didn't have a problem with my grades which were reasonably good.

So why did I quit my second major and almost give up my primary field of studies? Like Joel wrote, university/college is quite harsh for a schizoid. You no longer attend class with the same set of 20-30 people for 3-4 years like in high school (that's how it's in Poland, but I'm geussing it's similiar worldwide). Now you attend lectures and classes with many different groups, which requires much more socializing. What's more, the main place for socializing shifts from the classroom to private meetings, which means that you have to socialize more during your free time, which schizoids would prefer to spend alone. Add to that the fact, that it's no longer an option whether you socialize or not like in a high school. It's a requirement. Without other students, you can't complete all those group projects and it becomes increasingly difficult to keep track of all your assignments without outside help.

Summing up, the short-term sacrificies you need to make greatly outweigh the short-term benefits. The long-term benefits like gaining knowledge seem so distant that having to endure 5 years of constant torment doesn't seem worth it.

I would however advise taking him to the psychiatrist. Going to the psychiatrist didn't help me (but that's kinda my fault because I quit taking the medication my psychiatrist prescribed which maybe might have worked after some time), but it definitely didn't do me any harm and it actually reassured me as to my personality. I actually might start going again, this time with a more open mind.

As to the possibility of suicide, you should be careful. I'd think that if he ever had any actual intention of killing himself he would do it so nobody would suspect anything until after his suicide had been completed. Add to that his parents who seem to not care much and you've got a pessimistic scenario.

I do wish you success and it is good to see a considerate person like you every now and then.