Free will - does it exist?

Free will or not. Doesn't really matter to me. What happens happens, and if you chose to interpret that as me believing there is no free will is wrong! Because if thing happens just because they happens, they happen on either because we do have free will land chose it to happen, or because we don't have free will and it is predetermined. Thinking about free will is for me utterly pointless, as I believe we do things in this world.. or don't.. and that's it.

This way of thinking is similar to some monks which I don't remember who they are. But I've read it somewhere at some point in life.

This may also lead to inactivity, because things will happen regardless of your actions. You might remove your free will to this belief, but I don't say I do. I do things, and don't care if I have free will or not. If I have free will things will happen, if I don't have free will things will still happen! ^^

Free will can coexist along with a "destiny" if you can move your conciousness between the many "you's" in the many universes of a Level 3 Multiverse, while each and every one of these universes are "stuck" to a certain destiny.

And no, Im not in the mood to go in-depth with this theory, but think of this universe as a single road with one end and one beginning (representing your life). To the sides of this road there are other, similiar (but not 100% identicial) roads running paralell with the first road. Your free will would be the possibility to move your conciousness between these roads, and the destiny would be the actual structure of these roads. While travelling along one road you are limited to that destiny of that universe, but you still have the freedom to go with the destiny of another universe.

I read 'Black Holes & Baby Universes' a while back and in one of the chapters Hawking says something to the effect that outcome is mathematically predictable but because of the uncertainty principle, may as well not be. (Wish I had a mind more like a steel trap and less like a sieve--I can never remember the good stuff word for word.) It seems to me that we only ever have two choices--to do a thing, or not do it. I tell myself that the illusion of free will and free will itself are things I'll never be able to completely nail down, but so long as I have enough energy to pursue a desired goal, it doesn't matter. What bothers me is the feeling that human beings are basically just ruled by appetite. For power, for status, for money, for sex, for security, and so on. It's like, the easiest way to influence another is to discover their appetite, particularly the one kept hidden, kept repressed, and subtly dangle the promise of fulfilling that hunger, like dangling a carrot before a recalcitrant mule.

Maybe I'm just feeling that way because of all the pre-election sound bites on the boob tube these days.

Yes and no. I live my life as though free will exists. I feel like I'm making decisions, a lot of unfortutnately necessary decisions, in my life. I don't feel like I'm being guided by an invisible force. It feels like there are a lot of possibilities for the future.

However, I acknowledge that how I was developed and reared proably plays a significant role in my life - and to that end I do not believe there is free will. We react to stimuli based upon our past experiences and our internal biological processing. We come to a conclusion. In this sense, everything plays out one experience after another and culminates into lifestyles and decisions.

Consider this scenario:

Let's say I have the ability to travel back in time and observe the past. What would change, provided that I am in no way interacting with the course of events? Probably nothing. If I were to go back and act as a detatched observer to what I did today, I'm 99.9% positive I would have done the exact same things. I would have woken up, like I did today, gone to school, like I did today, and reacted in the same way to the same things I encountered in life. There does not seem to be any source or entity that allows for alternate decisions, we come to "the best" conclusion when confronted with any possible situation which lead to our actions that serve as further catalysts for more situations.

There are far too many aspects of the universe and things going on for me to be able to predict what is going tot happen to me tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure that it's laid out already. As I type, things are happening all over the world that are the results of things that had happened all over the world just a little while ago. I might like to think I'm making the decisions in my life but the mindset that computes my actions is only what thas been molded by my upbringing and socialization (or lack thereof) by people and institutions.

To all...

I am not going to offer anything here other than to say that this thread has been very interesting to follow. It is refreshing to see so many opinions expressed in such an intelligent and respectful way.

I still don't understand how it ties into SPD, but it seem this forum attracts those of who dare (or maybe just naturally) think outside the box.

Best,

N.

I dont believe free-will exists, although it is probably impossible to prove this. At least until we can map the brain in extremely high resolution and can capture the state of the brain exactly we will not definitively know one way or the other.

I notice interesting research lately, using electrical stimulus to make a person decide to raise a particular hand. Depending on where they stimulate the brain the person will think they are choosing to raise their hand but it was already more likely that would raise a particuarly hand because the electrical stimulus made it so.

The brain is nothing more than a collection of matter and electricity. Both are governed by physical laws which are not at all random although when complexity of a system is very high it may appear as if the system has an "inner force" or a choice to be a certain way, there is emergent behaviour.

I think the persons brain is nothing more than an example of this emergent behaviour in the flesh. It thinks its in control but actually its all predetermined from its current state and the situation the environment provides as stimulus.

At approximately this point in the discussion it was my intention to declare that research has demonstrated that mental patients who believe they have free will do better than those that don't. As I can no longer find that research this point is moot due to lack of evidence.

so it goes.

My non-free-will brain would like to see this research..... maybe i'll think about changing my belief