What's Wrong With SPD?

ENFPENTP wrote:I'm going to jump in here as an outsider because this topic is fascinating to me. I'm just curious as to what you see in the world that would give you this perspective, because I would opine that this is very far from reality. The majority of people on the planet are more akin to sheep than wolves.

To be clear, I see nothing wrong with being a "solitary individual". I often times wished I was more of a stoic solitary type. I think covert SPDers are very remarkable people as I know on very well.

You might be right. On the surface, it does seem like most people are "more akin to sheep than wolves." But with my past history of bullying and my maladaptive daydreams about being bullied, I find it hard to trust.

Having your funeral conducted and attended by only a few city morgue employees.

ENFPENTP wrote:

anathegram wrote:not really being able to personally experience anything isn't actually such a great experience

See this confuses me. Is this experience very similar for everyone living in the spectrum? Some feel more than others correct?

Yes. anathegram is awesome hardcore.

ENFPENTP wrote:I think covert SPDers are very remarkable people as I know on very well.

You're damn right. But how did you ever get to know a schizoid very well??

Possibly, wolves in sheep's clothing covers the majority. Appearances are everything in the NT world. I think each person also has a scope/topic and will appear to be a sheep/wolf to a point. For example, a racist could just be like that behind closed doors or they might join a club or they might try to eradicate a whole race. What are you willing to win/lose for?

Does my indifference make me a sheep or do I not count due to my condition?

naps wrote:

ENFPENTP wrote:See this confuses me. Is this experience very similar for everyone living in the spectrum? Some feel more than others correct?

Yes. anathegram is awesome hardcore.

whenever I start to feel anything I just switch to a darker eyeliner

anathegram wrote:

naps wrote:

ENFPENTP wrote:See this confuses me. Is this experience very similar for everyone living in the spectrum? Some feel more than others correct?

Yes. anathegram is awesome hardcore.

whenever I start to feel anything I just switch to a darker eyeliner

See? He even has an emoskin couch.

iabsurdlyexist wrote:Possibly, wolves in sheep's clothing covers the majority. Appearances are everything in the NT world. I think each person also has a scope/topic and will appear to be a sheep/wolf to a point. For example, a racist could just be like that behind closed doors or they might join a club or they might try to eradicate a whole race. What are you willing to win/lose for?

iabsurdlyexist wrote:Possibly, wolves in sheep's clothing covers the majority. Appearances are everything in the NT world. I think each person also has a scope/topic and will appear to be a sheep/wolf to a point. For example, a racist could just be like that behind closed doors or they might join a club or they might try to eradicate a whole race. What are you willing to win/lose for?

Does my indifference make me a sheep or do I not count due to my condition?

iabsurdlyexist wrote:Possibly, wolves in sheep's clothing covers the majority. Appearances are everything in the NT world. I think each person also has a scope/topic and will appear to be a sheep/wolf to a point. For example, a racist could just be like that behind closed doors or they might join a club or they might try to eradicate a whole race. What are you willing to win/lose for?

Does my indifference make me a sheep or do I not count due to my condition?

IMO schizoids who are deeper into the spectrum are neither wolves or sheep, but more like, I don't know, like owls? lol. This could sound silly, but oh well... Silent. Stoic. Solitary. Watching and observing from a distance. Not following, but not leading. They just are. Self-reliant, patient and thinking, always thinking.

However, the covert is a different animal from what I've experience and fully capable of being wolf-like, but probably unintentional. This kind does flash a predatory instinct, but it's situational and short-lived. This is from my own personal account and from what I have during my recent quest to find answers to explain the "Covert SPD truck" that recently ran me over lol. I will explain more in a different post. I don't want to come off as a know-it-all because I am not an expert, just an informed soul often lost trying to piece together what happened in my recent romantic encounter with a woman who I believe 100% is a Covert SPD.

naps wrote:
You're damn right. But how did you ever get to know a schizoid very well??

I dated one for 3 months very recently. We are actually still involved, but only as friends at this point. What I have learned is that the coverts can "hide in plain sight". I met her at an industry networking function. Her company had mandated that she get out of the office and find new business. She seemed fearless, but a little shy and awkward at first, but still outgoing. Also "aggressive" in her own way as she took the initiative to meet with me again to discuss "business". Very intelligent and introverted. I would come to find out that her extroverted qualities were just a mask she wore as now she is a completely different person than when we first met.

At first I identified her as an INTJ only, but the majority of INTJs I had read about or talked to always seemed mentally "healthy", at least in the sense that they had similar desires overall for love and relationships, just on a restricted scale. I stumbled onto an article about the connection between INTJs and schizoid personality disorder. Suddenly it all made sense. The aloofness, the limited expression/aphasia, indifference to praise, not EVER talking about feelings. She expressed indifference toward her children as did her mother. Her father was bipolar/borderline and at the very least, verbally abusive. There are at least a dozen other situations or adaptations I could identify.

There's a psychologist named Elinor Greenberg who posts a lot of insightful information on Quora about various personality disorders. One in particular regarding a covert's ability to have romantic relationships and how they adapt to manage their fear of intimacy was eye-opening: http://qr.ae/TUI8bh . The woman I dated had implemented 4 of the 5 "love compromises" mentioned in the commentary.

I apologize for hijacking the thread. I guess I could bring it all back to the topic by saying that finding out about her "condition" caused me to have greater affection for her than before I knew. You see, she had told me her life story. The abusive and indifferent parenting. Always feeling awkward and "different" in school. Her husband disappearing one day without a trace, only for her to find out he had been arrested and would go to prison for financial fraud, essentially leaving her to support her family on her own. And she did it. She is without a doubt one of the most amazing people I have ever met.....and she is a schizoid.

And please feel free to ask me anything. I will gladly answer truthfully about any perceived inconsistencies or about things I may have left out. I have gotten to the point where I feel safe here, in this community, and not be unfairly judged.

OT: This site, this forum and all the members, have been so helpful to me in working through my issues with this relationship. I am grateful for the communications I have received from everyone.

ENFPENTP wrote:IMO schizoids who are deeper into the spectrum are neither wolves or sheep, but more like, I don't know, like owls? lol. This could sound silly, but oh well... Silent. Stoic. Solitary. Watching and observing from a distance. Not following, but not leading. They just are. Self-reliant, patient and thinking, always thinking.

Secret/Covert here with two Snapple-Facts about the owl.

One, intelligence-wise owls actually aren't anything special. One theory is that we projected wisdom onto owls over time, not because of any demonstrably clever behavior we observed from them, but because unlike ravens or parrots (who really are freakishly intelligent by bird-standards) owls have forward-facing eyes. We have forward-facing eyes. Hmm.

What does this mean? Well, I'm not clever enough to say. But I am certain there's some very jejune social commentary to be made from the fact that an owl's all-important eyes are so large they leave very little room for a brain capable of higher functions. But! Even though owls have low trainability, fail laughably simple cognitive tests, and don't appear to learn from their blunders, they excel at baser tasks like hunting, mating, and eating.

So if you're disappointed, it's only because of the premise that an animal has to specifically impress you. In reality, an animal doesn't have to be better than what it already is. It just needs to be good at existing.

Number two? Their eyeballs are so big you can see them by looking inside their ear. Yikes.

poshlost wrote:Even though owls have low trainability … and don't appear to learn from their blunders

I thought the owlnalogy was a bit of a stretch but you've changed my view

poshlost wrote:

ENFPENTP wrote:IMO schizoids who are deeper into the spectrum are neither wolves or sheep, but more like, I don't know, like owls? lol. This could sound silly, but oh well... Silent. Stoic. Solitary. Watching and observing from a distance. Not following, but not leading. They just are. Self-reliant, patient and thinking, always thinking.

Secret/Covert here with two Snapple-Facts about the owl.

One, intelligence-wise owls actually aren't anything special. One theory is that we projected wisdom onto owls over time, not because of any demonstrably clever behavior we observed from them, but because unlike ravens or parrots (who really are freakishly intelligent by bird-standards) owls have forward-facing eyes. We have forward-facing eyes. Hmm.

What does this mean? Well, I'm not clever enough to say. But I am certain there's some very jejune social commentary to be made from the fact that an owl's all-important eyes are so large they leave very little room for a brain capable of higher functions. But! Even though owls have low trainability, fail laughably simple cognitive tests, and don't appear to learn from their blunders, they excel at baser tasks like hunting, mating, and eating.

So if you're disappointed, it's only because of the premise that an animal has to specifically impress you. In reality, an animal doesn't have to be better than what it already is. It just needs to be good at existing.

Number two? Their eyeballs are so big you can see them by looking inside their ear. Yikes.

The crow was actual my original thought, but i thought the owl analogy was so much cooler sounding.....then you had to go and burst the bubble! And actually the wolves analogy is off too going by the facts. They are actually shy and cautious by nature. Pound for pound the weasel is probably the animal that most closely resembles a "dark triad personality", i.e. predatory/psychopath. They have been known to attack a chicken coop and instead of killing one chicken for food, they will kill ALL the chickens before taking their meal home. Vicious little guys.

OT I am absolutely intrigued by the crow studies they do at thw University of Washington. Crows actual remember people and faces for years, mayne entire life times and pass knowledge on to the younger crows, about bad humans and good humans. They also remember people who feed them/show kindness and have been know to leave people "gifts" like shiny objects. Weird and amazing.

-- Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:41 pm --

An other thought is owls aren't very trainable and fail tests, because maybe they are "indifferent" to these activities???