is it possible to be autistic AND schizoid?

I know one is from birth as I've had it and one tends to be caused by environmental factors ie bullying which I've also had intensely.

I was your typical high functioning autistic child/teen. wanted to have friends but didn't quite have the social skills. despite a slow start I managed to have friendships and relationships in my earlier life.

However as I've got older I found I've got more cynical stuff has happened, people I thought were friends have left or stopped including me in their life anyway after many years of friendship. Also watching stuff that went on with family members who were in committed relationships for many years then their partner just cheats on them after over 20 yrs ....it just makes me think if you don't know someone after 20+ years when do you know them?

Physical restrictions, poor health and living out of town made me physically isolated too from being unable to get to social events regularly for many years and now I find I'm heading for 50 and my dreams are of living remotely, away from people, no longer missing human company (I prefer dogs - that could be the autism I've always related better to animals than people). I've no desire to work or do anything that involves 'too much interaction with too many people'.

Even to the extent that I'd love to adopt an other dog but am so convinced I'd be rejected as a suitable owner I can't start the process and it would also involve 'being social' (many rescues are now on FB and want to put photo's of the dogs in their new homes with their new owners - I don't do social media at all) and then want updates for the rest of the dogs entire life! Breeders are the same now they want to be part of the puppies life forever and I find that way too intrusive.

Long gone are the days you turned up at a rescue and just choose a dog and took it home and never had to deal with the people again. People think there must be something wrong with you if you aren't on social media cos everyone is.

Personally I'm inspired by a book I just read about a guy who lived 27 years in the woods without any human contact. There was also some debate about whether he had Asperger's or SPD.

I also spend alot of time daydreaming which I read recently is known as Maladaptive Daydreaming. This can be common in both autistic girls (I'm female) and SPD too.

Could I have both? or is it likely just cos of the autism cos I don't understand forgiveness well (for people I feel betrayed me) and taking things literally etc I have struggled to 'get over' when people have bullied me, let me down, surprised or shocked me?

According to the diagnostic criteria in the DSM 5, no. I have had heard of people having being diagnosed both though. I assume whoever did the diagnosis didn't follow the criteria or the person started with a Schizoid diagnosis.

I have been diagnosed Schizoid but I am going in for an ASD diagnosis in the coming months. If I am on the spectrum, I will have had both.

Schizoid diagnostic criteria B:
B. Does not occur exclusively during the course of schizophrenia, a bipolar disorder or
depressive disorder with psychotic features, another psychotic disorder, or autism
spectrum disorder and is not attributable to the physiological effects of another medical
condition.

I guess I wouldn't be diagnosed with Schizoid then as I already have the autism diagnosis and it was clearly that in early childhood.

Though that's not to say that autistic people can't have such negative experiences of people that they lose the desire to socialise or get close to others in later life and therefore display symptoms more associated with SPD. Though I did try throughout my teens and 20's to understand and relate to people. I tend to be very black and white though, it's all or nothing ...and right now due to experiences I have zero interest in socialising when I don't enjoy it. Maybe getting older as made me more cynical or I just no longer see the point of putting myself through all that anxiety to be seen as 'normal' when experience has now shown me that i'd never be accepted as that anyway.

Neither would I enjoy been stuck in a typically 'normal life' with kids and husband my life revolving around taking the kids to school, going to work, socialising with other mums /hubby's friends etc etc. It would be like 'torture' all that forced interaction day in, day out with no escape!

Thanks anyway

The problem is that the diagnoses only requires four of the criteria. Someone on the spectrum could easily have four. Throw in persistent depressive disorder (dysthymia) and it's easy to qualify for all or at least seem like you do.

1. Neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family.
2. Almost always chooses solitary activities.
3. Has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person.
4. Takes pleasure in few, if any, activities.
5. Lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives.
6. Appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others.
7. Shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affectivity

I don't like to call myself cynical but that is pretty much what I have become. Admittedly, I still have that glimmer of hope but it sure has faded. I imagine most of my optimism was due to the lack of contact with people. It's easy to see people in a better light when you don't interact. I am definitely fed up with most interaction and the anxiety has mostly faded to indifference. I guess that could be age related.

I just wanted to say that I could relate to everything you wrote about. When I began searching online for reasons why I have zero desire to socialize, I first thought I might have Aspergers - until I met several friends who have Aspergers, who happen to be very social and desire friendships.

Getting older has definitely made me more cynical, mostly due to dysfunctional family relationships and being subjected to the abuse of a borderline parent.

nis wrote:I just wanted to say that I could relate to everything you wrote about. When I began searching online for reasons why I have zero desire to socialize, I first thought I might have Aspergers - until I met several friends who have Aspergers, who happen to be very social and desire friendships.

Getting older has definitely made me more cynical, mostly due to dysfunctional family relationships and being subjected to the abuse of a borderline parent.

Did you ever think you have both or have you been able to discount ASD? I have also seen asociality in those with ASD. I guess it may just depend on the source of the asociality. For me, I don't ever remember being social, it was usually due to life circumstances or an obsession. Even then, I was usually just chilling or doing my thing, not interacting unless interacted with. Is it because I don't get much from it or because I am speaking from a different mindset? Possibly both.

iabsurdlyexist wrote:Did you ever think you have both or have you been able to discount ASD?

I never realized one could have both Aspergers and SPD. I definitely do have many of the characteristics that fit. I think I'll ask about this the next time I see my doc.

Thing is SPD is a personality disorder. By that I mean the name in an umbrella term for a type of personality where the person who has it feels encumbers by it.

I'd say nearly everyone can catch the schizoid bug but if they already exhibited similar traits due to something like aspergers then doctors are more likely to lean towards the ASD end for why the traits are there. Then if anything can be worked with they'll do so as much as possible.

People can develop SPD traits for a number of reasons. I've noticed many SPD traits mirror most trauma and depressive traits. That said, it doesn't mean the disorder is limited to the two but both often seem to play parts. You said you once were more social until people made you rightfully upset. In turn you were disheartened to the point where you developed depression from friends and family who should have been a support system to you and others. I can understand the trouble forgiving when you've had this all throughout your life. I don't feel that's more or less autism as a normal human reaction to knowing they don't want to be hurt any more. An extremely similar series of unfortunate events happened to myself.

I would go in trying to figure out how to make peace with what you can. Some things might be too hard but if you can iron out some of the traits it'll be easier to live handle. Therapy helped me work through a lot. I get how ASD is difficult in regards to black and white thinking making you feel held back. My boyfriend is HFA too and after a long while he seems to be moving forward with therapy. He spoke with my therapist off and on recently taking her on as his own.

I'm not on the spectrum but I prefer animals too. They are more predictable and way less drama. You shouldn't be forced to put your picture up on their site. I'm sure that if you tell them no that they won't. I don't know why they would reject you for being unsocial. My cat is an emotional support pet. He was adopted from a shelter (nothing special went down other than getting the letter from my therapist and giving it to my landlady.) I imagine most with EMA's many are quite unsocial. They have sent emails but I don't respond and they don't bother me. I suggest putting them into spam.

For whatever it's worth I do a bunch of maladaptive daydreaming and also am female. The good side of daydreaming is it can make you feel good and/or in control. Bad side is one can become addicted it daydreaming. A little here and there is ok, but when you aren't really clocking out of them then everything else seems less pleasurable. When you daydream you focus on what your brain is focussed on. This may be good or bad but it's what your thoughts are putting foremost. Socialization interrupts these. Eventually, aside from the jaded depression from bad experience with others, one sees human contact as unwanted making depression worse. Basically it's a high and when you are in social situations you can no longer maintain it as easily. In turn you crash as you withdrawl.

iabsurdlyexist wrote:Schizoid diagnostic criteria B:
B. Does not occur exclusively during the course of schizophrenia, a bipolar disorder or
depressive disorder with psychotic features, another psychotic disorder, or autism
spectrum disorder and is not attributable to the physiological effects of another medical
condition.

I was diagnosed with a mood disorder and schizoid pd in the beginning. I give up.

Thanks for your answer Holodeck.

We are since thinking maybe a dissociative thing as there seem's to be more than 1 personality and our mood, social skills and desires vary wildly depending who's 'up front'. One of us definitely has officially diagnosed autism and has had since childhood.

We're having a bit of identity crisis at the minute as it was wasn't until 1 alter has left due to a meltdown and others kicked in that we reaised what we thought were the severe mood swings of one person seems to infact be the different emotions and thoughts of more than one alter.

This took a turn I wasn't expecting. Sometimes I have questioned what the difference is between having an alter or just having moods swing so wildly that you lose your identity. I guess sometimes I think I don't have a cohesive identity due to allowing for multiple frames of thought. If I got to naming my moods does that make them alters? I had this conversation with my therapist but I stopped seeing him to see a pychologist. I wonder if I will wander down this path again.