Communication Skills

Are you poor or good at communication? What about different mediums like face to face vs written vs anonymous online? How do you feel about others and most people in general regarding such things?

I'm mostly curious if there's any similarity for people here with my own experiences. My written communication gets praised or admired pretty often all over the place, but I'm generally very quiet verbally. I also find that the most common "problem" I run into is the short-cutting people do with conversations, whether written or spoken.

I tend to deliver spoken conversation relatively slowly and methodically. People sometimes say I sound arrogant. The most common problems I have is that other people tend to want to talk very fast and assume what you're going to say, but often times I'm saying something that's not what they predicted.

Similarly in written communication I tend to find that if I'm talking about something that is "common conversation", like say politics, people take whatever I said and then fill in the unsaid things with what they think the conversation is going to be about... but usually I only mean what I said explicitly. For example, I made a comment elsewhere that I was indifferent to something, and then someone else went on to just assume I was saying "all parties are the same". Stuff like that irks me.

I think a sizeable number of these people that are... typical communicators... are actually just verbalizing what they themselves want to hear. Whereas for me, I have all that monologue internally, and I'm very discerning about it. I don't broadcast that stuff, and I don't need to have it bounced off someone else to feel validated.

Ashlar wrote:Are you poor or good at communication? What about different mediums like face to face vs written vs anonymous online? How do you feel about others and most people in general regarding such things?

I can't know from the complete outside views on myself but I'd say I meet somewhere is the middle of good and bad.

I know I'm better online than off. People tend to be snarky at me about how I don't react like I should if I'm communicating offline. After people get to know me they make a 180 and treat me completely different. That is extremely frustrating. They start off treating me (and I've been described this way aloud) as acting better than them, always annoyed or bored, asked if I was a goth when I was younger, etc.

I get annoyed with them misunderstanding me but understand why they do. I have chronic resting bored face and a tone of never ending sarcasm.

I also find that the most common "problem" I run into is the short-cutting people do with conversations, whether written or spoken.

I did till my ADHD meds.

I tend to deliver spoken conversation relatively slowly and methodically. People sometimes say I sound arrogant. The most common problems I have is that other people tend to want to talk very fast and assume what you're going to say, but often times I'm saying something that's not what they predicted.

Same. I often feel like I'm explaining my culture to an American tourist who keeps trying to talk to me by shouting in English though I've told them in English that I can understand them perfectly. I guess my sarcastic accent being too thick along with my isolated dialect for them to realize I'm also American.

For example, I made a comment elsewhere that I was indifferent to something, and then someone else went on to just assume I was saying "all parties are the same". Stuff like that irks me.

Political talk will always cause people to quickly assume things in an immature knee jerk way. They either think you agree with them all the way or you need to hear them preach at you for not believing in their political view.

I think a sizeable number of these people that are... typical communicators... are actually just verbalizing what they themselves want to hear. Whereas for me, I have all that monologue internally, and I'm very discerning about it. I don't broadcast that stuff, and I don't need to have it bounced off someone else to feel validated.

Why wouldn't they be that way? They are around one another while we isolate and mull over things until we see what we feel is the actual truth. They don't get to mull. Instead they constantly are bombarded by social circles telling them how to think. Most of them assume that's the proper way people are supposed to be. If they do things out of the norm they get called arrogant or unhappy.

Part of me finds it funny that when people get to know me they go from treating me like a sullen teenager to putting me on a pedestal as if I'm a mentor to them.

The other part of me sees it as nearly existentially depressing that things have to be that way for either side.

I decided I needed to think about this one more but only came to the conclusion that communication is not my strong suit. I'd say I do better via forums, email and messaging but that isn't always the case. The only reason I usually do better in those forms is because I have time to reflect and get my point across more accurately. In person, I can't reflect on every sentence. However, in forums, I think I still let my brain puke on occasion. If I am on the spectrum, it might make more sense to me.

Communication and verbal skills are a nightmare.

My psychiatrist told me that I was actually really good at it, that I even have a sense of humor and that I can follow through and be a really good and insightful talker. That was in a clinical environment though. Out there, I get too much information and my anxiety overrides any kind of "skill" that I might have.

I hypothesize that I get so anxious and hung up in social situations because I got the ability to read other people at an almost instinctual level. I probably learned to do that so I could save my arse from stuff when I was a kid. I also seem to have an eerie ability to know what kind of person I am dealing with when I am talking or even looking at them in real life. I remember when my brother invited his first girlfriend over and the moment I saw her, my gut basically yelled "danger" at me. My gut was right, that was a painful experience for my brother.

The whole social thing is still a mystery to me though, even if I might have some abilities. The whole extrovert vs. introvert deal, how to converse, do small talk and how people can talk for hours on end baffles me. I spent a lot of time observing people doing those kind of things but it still eludes me. Also, it's challenging because there is a lot of information to assimilate, not just what the conversation is about. There are so many nuances like non-verbal and the way some people talk and such.

I remember being at a stable once and the woman in charge asked if I wanted to unload the wheelbarrow. She asked in a very interesting way though : "I know you would love to carry this wheelbarrow outside for me". I said no but later on I thought to myself that it sounded like manipulation.

Maybe I'm overthinking the whole social thing. It is a skill that you acquire over time, especially when you are a kid. It never happened to me. Still, there's a lot of stuff about it and how people talk to each other and it looks a lot more complicated than what extroverts make it look like. They gain energy from socializing...I don't know how that happens. Is it because of my low self-esteem? An echo chamber kind of phenomenon?

God, even at this time it eludes me. So to answer the question, I am pretty bad at communicating even though there are people that are worse at it than me. I find it hard to believe when I still have such a hard time. Even online, I screw up all the time and end up alone at the end of the day. In writing though, I am a lot better. Some say I have a knack for it. I suppose it balances things out?

Remember that communication is a two-way street. Also remember that people have various experiences with patterns of communication.

For example: a compulsive liar who lies because they got in trouble by telling the truth. Or: what do you feel when someone tells you "just a moment"? Some people take this as being ignored, even if they will get the person's attention after a moment. If you had people turn to you once the moment is over, it's fine. But if you had to remind people that the moment passed one time too much..

Communication is a lot of different skills.

I've always had very good written communication skills. I enjoy writing and I enjoy reading. I am good at conversation but I prefer to listen more than to talk. I think I seem fairly normal in conversation. I think people like talking to me. People tell me that I'm funny. I can be a little formal sometimes if conversation dries up. I am very used to thinking 90% of my thoughts and saying only about 10% of them. I have pretty sharp control over my body language. When I was a kid, I worked very hard at suppressing my body language, and as an adult I worked very hard at adding it back in, so it's much more deliberate.

I'm bad at expression. I can talk about intellectual things very easily. I almost never talk about my feelings or the things that I love. I find it very difficult to connect with other people on that level, so I think over time I've gotten used to just not sharing that side of myself.

I really connected to what Ashlar said about predictability in conversations. I think that, for the most part, I have the same problem where I know the typical way the conversation should go, but I don't want to go that way, and I know the person I'm talking to does want it to go that way, and it creates an awkwardness, because I will never choose the typical way. I think that it creates distance between other people and me, but the distance is much less stressful than not being able to have the conversation that I want to have.

Like others here I am much better with written communication.

There have been instances where I've been able to get out of a difficult or awkward situation by writing a note or email, even if I was in the wrong. I can make bullsh** sound reasonable and plausible. Not so verbally.

I view verbal communication as sort of a collateral aspect of being out in the world. I rarely intend to participate in conversations, but if I must, I endure. Nevertheless, I frequently feel as if I'm selling myself short during verbal communication; my thoughts don't come as freely, and I feel like I'm doing myself a disservice by not being as expressive as I would otherwise be with written communication.

I sometimes think of this as laziness. Small talk or joining conversations or even answering questions is like a chore I just don't feel like doing so I don't give it my all. I try to make sure I occasionally communicate via written words to the people I do communicate with on a regular basis so they're aware that my communication skills aren't limited to the halting, incomplete way I frequently present myself in conversation.

Exceptions would be if the topic of conversation falls within one of my interests and when talking to a therapist/psychiatrist.

Holodeck wrote:I get annoyed with them misunderstanding me but understand why they do. I have chronic resting bored face and a tone of never ending sarcasm.

Same. I don't know how to raise my awareness on that front. I'm frequently not aware of it. I'll never forget the time I was in a hardware store to buy some paint. I was standing at the counter and when the guy came to help me I simply asked "Can I see the book?" (of paint samples). He stared at me for a second, the pulled the book from under the counter, slammed it down and walked away in a huff. Another time I was in a Target of K-Mart and asked the clerk where the car batteries were. He was either new or stupid because his face went blank. It occurred to me that this was a smaller store and they might not carry them so before he could answer, I asked "Do you have car batteries?" He gave me a doe-eyed look and suddenly another clerk came over and told me "There's no need to be rude, sir." I've been told secondhand that people have interpreted me as arrogant or assholish in previous conversations. It's been a while since anything like this has happened. I rarely intend to be rude.

I'm also aware, perhaps too much so, of my own body language. It's a subject that interests me, and the prospect of giving myself away through non-verbal cues makes me paranoid, especially since I enjoy detecting incongruities in other people's expression through their own body language.

Most people are more forthcoming than I am. I tend to view any opinions/or thoughts I have as closely guarded secrets that must be carefully considered before I reveal them.

Ashlar wrote:I think a sizeable number of these people that are... typical communicators... are actually just verbalizing what they themselves want to hear. Whereas for me, I have all that monologue internally, and I'm very discerning about it. I don't broadcast that stuff, and I don't need to have it bounced off someone else to feel validated.

This. I think a lot of people comfort themselves through communication. For me, the opposite is true. I quite like the music of my own echo chamber.

If you are an Ashlar then that speaks for itself doesn't it?

Schizoid are generally uncommunicative in face to face. But can communicate fairly well if it's something intellectual. Read somewhere maybe it was guntrip of a schizoid who was a superb orator but when approached by the audience seemed very standoffish and cold. Couldn't engage very well because the expectation of connection emotion and intimacy was too much to handle.

Just a tip if you are looking for one... put yourself out there. The stress will be intense but the feeling of aliveness is a novelty to a schizoid. Knew a schizoid who was very sheltered. Found it very difficult to communicate with others. Then he forced himself to do some public speaking and as he described it felt alive. He mentioned talking to his crush at work and being able to express himself.

-- Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:17 pm --

Oh boy! Just noticed something you said. The part about assuming what you will say. I remember hearing something about this relating to the communication problem of schizophrenics. Richard grannon mentioned that schizophrenics expect falsely that people talk TO each other but the truth isbthat most people talk AT each other. You see? Similar issue with schizoid to a lesser extent because they can pick up on nuance more readily.

You often feel like people are acting something out? Well there you go. If you are interested look this thing up. It's got to do with double bind theory and failures in communication.

Interesting topic...

I personally think there are a few things going on. As for me personally, I think have quite good communication skills in general, but I'm certainly more comfortable with writing instead of over the phone or face-to-face. I think in that regard, I'm pretty much a textbook secret schizoid.

What I think is really interesting though is this:

Ashlar wrote:The most common problems I have is that other people tend to want to talk very fast and assume what you're going to say, but often times I'm saying something that's not what they predicted....

people take whatever I said and then fill in the unsaid things with what they think the conversation is going to be about....

I think a sizeable number of these people that are... typical communicators... are actually just verbalizing what they themselves want to hear.

Holodeck wrote:Same. I often feel like I'm explaining my culture to an American tourist who keeps trying to talk to me by shouting in English though I've told them in English that I can understand them perfectly. I guess my sarcastic accent being too thick along with my isolated dialect for them to realize I'm also American.

smirks wrote:I really connected to what Ashlar said about predictability in conversations. I think that, for the most part, I have the same problem where I know the typical way the conversation should go, but I don't want to go that way, and I know the person I'm talking to does want it to go that way, and it creates an awkwardness, because I will never choose the typical way.

CopyCat27 wrote:Just noticed something you said. The part about assuming what you will say. I remember hearing something about this relating to the communication problem of schizophrenics. Richard grannon mentioned that schizophrenics expect falsely that people talk TO each other but the truth is that most people talk AT each other.

My understanding is that what you're all describing is the old Roman version of "common-sense", the sense of things that wider or narrower groups of people have in common. I don't know how over time the word became confused with a purely normative idea of "good sense;" I think the Romans always assumed they were kind of linked, but at least the Romans remembered the objective side too.

Anyways, the thing is that I don't think that common-sense is really even a skill; it's more like an instinct that's kneaded into you (or not) from an early age. You can learn to recognize the common-sense of other people consciously (aka "knowing your audience"), but even then, you're performing as an actor, not actually partaking of it.

That's a big part of why all these psychologists and HR people banging on about social skills annoy me. A skill is conscious, objective knowledge that can be taught, and it reliably achieves an aim. So if "skill" is what makes the difference in social relationships, then how are dysfunctional social relationships even possible? Instead, what I see is a crazy mix of things like codependency, delusion, self-fulfilling prophecies, and death drives. None of these things should even be possible if human communication and relationships are genuinely rooted in skill.

Now, I have thoughts about where things go from there, but I don't want to ramble.

smirks wrote:When I was a kid, I worked very hard at suppressing my body language, and as an adult I worked very hard at adding it back in, so it's much more deliberate.

I'm bad at expression. I can talk about intellectual things very easily. I almost never talk about my feelings or the things that I love. I find it very difficult to connect with other people on that level, so I think over time I've gotten used to just not sharing that side of myself.

Same. Some of it seems to have come back from meds making me less anxious but it's hard to remind myself how I would like my normal to be. I don't have identity issues about not knowing the type of person I am but I do in the sense of not feeling like the whole me is there. Instead of phantom limbs I have phantom emotions/reactions.

smirks wrote:I have the same problem where I know the typical way the conversation should go, but I don't want to go that way, and I know the person I'm talking to does want it to go that way, and it creates an awkwardness, because I will never choose the typical way. I think that it creates distance between other people and me, but the distance is much less stressful than not being able to have the conversation that I want to have.

I typed about doing something similar to this in the What's on your mind thread" earlier. Basically, I said that even when I do get a connection going I wind up not having it go as they planned and I can plan on them not speaking to me much after that.

naps wrote:Nevertheless, I frequently feel as if I'm selling myself short during verbal communication; my thoughts don't come as freely, and I feel like I'm doing myself a disservice by not being as expressive as I would otherwise be with written communication.

I attribute mine a bit to my selective mutism. I hold back due to being misunderstood from lack of emotional reaction causing me to seem sarcastic if I comment. When I'm online I don't know if I am nicer but I do come off that way. Sometimes I feel I may be nicer online due to it being refreshing that people treat me as not being so frigid. The reaction of how people translate my personality is a complete 180 degrees from what they say offline. I've noticed too that the people like me online will prefer typing and if we talk it tends to be without showing faces. I prefer that. The tone of folks like me isn't necessarily as sarcastic sounding but will often have at least hints of being consistently annoyed or exasperated.

naps wrote:I sometimes think of this as laziness. Small talk or joining conversations or even answering questions is like a chore I just don't feel like doing so I don't give it my all. I try to make sure I occasionally communicate via written words to the people I do communicate with on a regular basis so they're aware that my communication skills aren't limited to the halting, incomplete way I frequently present myself in conversation.

For me, it feels like filling out forms face to face.

naps wrote:He stared at me for a second, the pulled the book from under the counter, slammed it down and walked away in a huff. Another time I was in a Target of K-Mart and asked the clerk where the car batteries were. He was either new or stupid because his face went blank. It occurred to me that this was a smaller store and they might not carry them so before he could answer, I asked "Do you have car batteries?" He gave me a doe-eyed look and suddenly another clerk came over and told me "There's no need to be rude, sir." I've been told secondhand that people have interpreted me as arrogant or assholish in previous conversations. It's been a while since anything like this has happened. I rarely intend to be rude.

Stop doing things that are eerily similar to me. It's annoying and rude because then I start to empathize with you followed by me assuming you must be being sarcastic. This is then followed by a wild goose trail of OCD thoughts of being weirded out and wondering why you do that. That's when I remember you have OCD too. Quit making me emotionally uncomfortable by being disturbingly relatable. I don't know how to handle emotional discomfort other than being uncomfortable that I don't feel emotion. Since it's not all identical I assume you have my apartment bugged and I guess due to boredom you regurgitate here about things I mutter to myself.

CopyCat27 wrote:Just a tip if you are looking for one... put yourself out there. The stress will be intense but the feeling of aliveness is a novelty to a schizoid. Knew a schizoid who was very sheltered. Found it very difficult to communicate with others. Then he forced himself to do some public speaking and as he described it felt alive. He mentioned talking to his crush at work and being able to express himself.

It feels painful going into this situation but I agree. I used to be way quieter and introverted acting years before I joined this forum. I didn't enjoy being around people during or after I dealt with them. After some situations I was forced to be in, I gained more of an appreciation for not being quiet. Afterward, I wanted to take part more but I'm very different from others which makes me have to push myself to go out more. When I have I've enjoyed that I partook of it later and after I started my meds which lower my anxiety I have felt some emotion around others.

muaddib wrote:I think the Romans always assumed they were kind of linked, but at least the Romans remembered the objective side too.

Mmmhmmm.

muaddib wrote:So if "skill" is what makes the difference in social relationships, then how are dysfunctional social relationships even possible? Instead, what I see is a crazy mix of things like codependency, delusion, self-fulfilling prophecies, and death drives. None of these things should even be possible if human communication and relationships are genuinely rooted in skill.

That's what happens when a dysfunctional person doesn't have the ingredients for something so they use substitutes. It's not as good and it's not entirely wanted but it reminds them of the stuff they grew up on so there's that nostalgic factor even with the bad parts. Sometimes they try and share it with others who had similar terrible stuff growing up. Things are ok until one of them gets a bit too much of the bad taste and leaves.