I Want to Feel Magical!

naps wrote:I think as we move further and further away from childhood, the wonder of life, the cool factor, it fades. Maybe it's less about striving to recapture it and more about finding new ways to entertain yourself, as well as re-defining what it means to be entertained.

I think it's some of both. It's mostly about "redefining", but that also entails recapturing something and realizing what isn't necessary for it.

Like "ah, that feeling I had when doing <something> at <someplace> with <someone>, I'll never have it again" -- well, not necessarily. Because it wasn't really the activity, the place or the person, it was something about the activity, the place, the person and yourself. And then maybe you don't know of any other combination of things and situations that can elicit the same feeling, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Also a big catch is that repeating something without feeling the same thing isn't necessarily a sign that something has changed, because novelty itself is often a big part of how we experience things.

-- 06 Jun 2018, 21:39 --

naps wrote:I pat myself on the back for not even thinking of mentioning drugs on this thread.

One thing I think is worth mentioning about prescription stimulants is that they're generally not fun to take. If I take my ritalin and don't do anything, I'll often just be irritable and have a headache. For me it basically works by making it so that it becomes inconvenient for me to do nothing. And then getting mentally engaged in something makes me feel physically better.

emillionth wrote:

naps wrote:I think as we move further and further away from childhood, the wonder of life, the cool factor, it fades. Maybe it's less about striving to recapture it and more about finding new ways to entertain yourself, as well as re-defining what it means to be entertained.

I think it's some of both. It's mostly about "redefining", but that also entails recapturing something and realizing what isn't necessary for it.

Like "ah, that feeling I had when doing <something> at <someplace> with <someone>, I'll never have it again" -- well, not necessarily. Because it wasn't really the activity, the place or the person, it was something about the activity, the place, the person and yourself. And then maybe you don't know of any other combination of things and situations that can elicit the same feeling, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Also a big catch is that repeating something without feeling the same thing isn't necessarily a sign that something has changed, because novelty itself is often a big part of how we experience things.

Yes. I think about an afternoon I had once with my roommate driving around record* shopping, finding some great stuff, stopping at an awesome diner, then going home to spend the rest of the day listening to what we bought. Sounds mundane, but it was fun. It was memorable.

For years I hoped to be able to replicate a day like that, but I was fooling myself. I've changed too much. Whether that change is for the better or worse is not the point. It was a moment in time that was of it's time. Maybe when we reminisce about fun we had in the past it's not so much reminiscing about the fun, but of the past.

And yes, those good times can be replicated, but even if they're just as good, they won't feel the same. And more importantly, we won't even take notice of them until after the fact. Time has a way of cleaning up the rough spots around the memories we have. That day we went record* shopping may not have been as magical as I remember it. Actually it probably wasn't.

*large, clumsy compact discs**

One thing I think is worth mentioning about prescription stimulants is that they're generally not fun to take. If I take my ritalin and don't do anything, I'll often just be irritable and have a headache. For me it basically works by making it so that it becomes inconvenient for me to do nothing. And then getting mentally engaged in something makes me feel physically better.

The same goes for benzodiazepines. For years I took them recreationally. I really looked forward to running into them. They were one of my favorite highs. Now that I take them medicinally, they've lost their recreational appeal. I don't even get high off of them anymore, just tired.


**mp3's that exist in physical form

naps wrote:**mp3's that exist in physical form

What's an "mp3"? I think I've heard of it. It's some kind of old thing that you use to listen to music if your internet fails, right?

(Just kidding. I like to have control over my music library.)

If you want to come off as old you should be reminiscing about cassette tapes. Posting on the internet about buying records just makes you sound like a hipster.

muaddib wrote:and partly because I'm not entirely sure since some of my weirder philosophical ideas might make me heretical

The great thing about Shia Islam is that any heresy you can think up has probably already been embraced by a half dozen esoteric sects.

naps wrote:Sex for me these days almost exclusively consists of masturbation, but I do get to feel magical, if only for seven seconds.

Is it not a mini high, unlike the kind of spontaneous magic we would want to experience?

emillionth wrote:

ShowJumpingRabbit wrote:Funny, the last comment is Naps' but it's PolarBear's name endorsing it.

For an instant, I was perplexed wondering if PolarBear could have uttered such comment, and heaved a sigh of relief realizing it was Naps ...

Yeah...

Yes, that was naps that said it; I think I was considering to replying to 1PolarBear on another thread, and the wires must have gotten crossed. I posted this right before going out for the day and I must have rushed... or my unconscious mind is trolling you all.

emillionth wrote:Btw, note that antidepressants might actually cause or worsen that problem. That was my personal experience at least.

I have seriously considered this; it's definitely possible, but there's no telling until I'm back off the SSRI I've been on. In the meantime, I don't think it would hurt to dig a little into possible philosophical causes.

naps wrote:Would you say anhedonia plays a large part in this? Or lack of flow?

I guess both, and not even separately, but in tandem?

naps wrote:Do you find yourself deriving more pleasire/satisfaction from thinking about the things you'd enjoy doing than actually doing them?

Ooh, good question. I guess so, which might explain where the cognitive pleasure comes from... but it's not like I particularly enjoy the analysis either. It's more like I just have more hope it might lead me to an epiphany, and that might lead to satisfaction from the experience itself again.

naps wrote:That's what I was sort of getting at before with thinking of sunlight as radiation from a not-so-distant star. In my case, I replace superstition with wonder. I don't need superstition; I have OCD.

Yes, I actually had to think a bit about how "wonder" fits into things because I definitely think it's related. The problem is that I even have trouble summoning that sense of wonder a lot of the time.

What is it that makes things "wonderful" or "magical" though? One idea I had was that giving you power over your environment made something magical. That contradicts wonder though, not to mention my personal experience that most conveniences make me feel like more of a muggle, not less. Then I thought maybe it's not understanding something and being awed by it. Then I realized many of the most magical moments are precisely when you do understand something in a way, and your mind is put at ease.

So that leads me back to my very first question. There are ideas that what defines "magic" is a belief that things are linked in immaterial but potent ways. Do you think there's something about emotions that prevents you from feeling them unless you think a little like this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathetic_magic

naps wrote:Occasionally I will have lapses in my flat, anhedonic, so-what, non-magical being where I can actually become engrossed in life, even if for only an hour or so. I try to examine what exactly was in place that led to this state. One conclusion I am sure is significant is time. Having a large chunk of it. But I have specific reasons for feeling that way that I doubt are shared my many others here in relation to this topic.

Funny enough, I think there could be a whole new thread unpacked from your comment. It's probably not a coincidence that emillionth's video and the posts you linked to about flow both bring up Henri Bergson.

Apparently, that's another parallel with PTSD. I don't think it's a mainstream view for psychologists, but among people with first-hand experience, there's a theory it's fundamentally a break in how the self relates to time:
http://www.theevilhours.com/David_Morri ... cerpt.html
(I haven't read the book myself, but I may get a copy; it looks really good)

naps wrote:

muaddib wrote:I obviously still have a strong sense of irony, but I'm actually a halfway-convert to Shi'i Islam. I haven't gone all the way and made it official, partly out of laziness and not knowing the basic little rituals, partly because ambiguity is useful nowadays with everyone at each other's throats, and partly because I'm not entirely sure since some of my weirder philosophical ideas might make me heretical.

Also, you might get deported.

Haha, that too. The way things are headed though, I've started wondering if that might be a blessing in disguise:

muaddib (10 years from now) wrote:Yes, as I wrote in my application for refugee status, Emperor Trump got a twitter mob to burn my house down. The rabid pack of 8 year-olds that chased my wife home from work though, that was the last straw... and that's why we're now here in Switzerland. BTW are all the stories about your appreciation for basic scientific research true? Why yes, I'd love to earn a livable wage developing functional models for your best geneticists

naps wrote:From my standpoint, religion seems to be about preoccupation with the past (reading and re-reading holy text) and the future (constantly updating your passport to whichever heaven your particular faith has assigned you). It almost seems as if life is something to be endured rather than spent.

I won't really disagree that it often becomes that in practice. Now, depending on your situation, I think that view of life as something to be endured instead of enjoyed can be positive, mainly when your life isn't going well. It gives you perspective until hopefully you can change your circumstances (or the times change of their own accord).

In just the past year though, I think I've made peace with the things you describe because of the realization I described here:
schizotypal-personality/topic205380-20.html#p2147621

Pretty much, what you're describing isn't a religious thing so much as a human & animal thing. The most basic and fail-safe way people understand the world is through imitation, whether it's a Sunday school class nodding at their teacher unthinkingly or a bunch of undergrad-atheists aping their favorite professor. And though I'm obviously cynical about it, all things considered, you have to admit it works pretty well most of the time.

What's kind of cool is that once you pick up on these different "ways of knowing," they can explain a lot of things about society and history. For example, I'm not sure you can draw a clearer line between the old Greco-Roman (then Christian in turn) and truly Modern inflences on European history. When you think about it, it's kind of amazing if a movie, book, or TV show presumes knowing by experiment/experience rather than by imitation, you can bet any Christ-like characters will be treated as false, boring, silly, or pitiable. The protagonist almost always has to resemble more of a Hamlet, a Faust, or in comedies, maybe a Gulliver.

naps wrote:

muaddib wrote:I've decided sex is one of the most overrated things ever (and no, I'm not a virgin anymore and I didn't have any particularly bad experiences)

That's true. Maybe religion has a good point in that respect. Sex for me these days almost exclusively consists of masturbation, but I do get to feel magical, if only for seven seconds.

It could just be anhedonia, but even the high-points don't feel particularly satisfying to me. I guess it's sort of fun in the moment, that's it. I can see how being really in-tune with your partner emotionally could make the experience more satisfying too. For me though, the lead-up feels sort of forced and like I'm going through the motions. And afterwards, I don't really feel "good" at all, but more like all my nerves had been put out of joint

What's sort of funny and messed-up at the same time is losing my virginity had the total opposite effect from what I think most people expect. You know, so many people these days are like, "Oh, you're just so up tight because you need to get laid, hyuk, hyuk." Well, instead of making me feel more at ease or connected with people, it kicked my misanthropy into a whole new gear, like "Wait, what? This is the closest to ecstasy and meaning many people will ever come to in life? Wow, human beings are even way more pathetic than I imagined. Maybe the eco-nihilists are right and they should just go extinct."

Yet again, it's identifying as inhuman that paradoxically tamped down my misanthropy. I realized if the human race is condemned to lives of vanity and chasing after wind, it's simply none of my business; I just answer to the guy upstairs

naps wrote:

emillionth wrote:Like "ah, that feeling I had when doing <something> at <someplace> with <someone>, I'll never have it again" -- well, not necessarily. Because it wasn't really the activity, the place or the person, it was something about the activity, the place, the person and yourself. And then maybe you don't know of any other combination of things and situations that can elicit the same feeling, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Yes. I think about an afternoon I had once with my roommate driving around record* shopping, finding some great stuff, stopping at an awesome diner, then going home to spend the rest of the day listening to what we bought. Sounds mundane, but it was fun. It was memorable.

For years I hoped to be able to replicate a day like that, but I was fooling myself. I've changed too much.

I totally sympathize. I can think of a few days like this that I still remember years later, but they seem so rare. One thing I've always genuinely wondered is if most people actually feel like that much of the time. Do they feel like that once a month, a week, or even by default? It just seems like I only feel that once a year if I'm lucky.

anathegram wrote:

muaddib wrote:and partly because I'm not entirely sure since some of my weirder philosophical ideas might make me heretical

The great thing about Shia Islam is that any heresy you can think up has probably already been embraced by a half dozen esoteric sects.

Haha, yes, that's true. The ideas are actually the smallest reason I haven't officially converted. I could add more specifics, but I don't want to derail the thread.

I used to fly in my dreams but was never able to in real life. I've tried moving clouds while outside or lights in church while bored out of my mind. I've never made energy balls but they do sound cool. I can't make people do what I think. I'm pretty sure it's never gonna happen.

The only magic I accomplish is something being done because I don't remember already doing it and things magically working when I am around or being able to shoot off a troubleshooting answer and that being the trick. The first one is magical to me and the others magical to others. I guess I will accept what I can get.

muaddib wrote:

Ashlar wrote:A bar near me has some delicious garlic hummus.

I also feel pretty magical.

What's your secret? Is it the hummus? My taco-hummus was good, but not magical.

Could be. It was pretty good. My sorcery seems to take the form of magically succeeding at things without even trying. Maybe I'm an illusionist, but I'm cursed to only be able to fool myself?

muaddib wrote:In the meantime, I don't think it would hurt to dig a little into possible philosophical causes.

I think sometimes it does. Don't overdo it.

-- 08 Jun 2018, 01:32 --

muaddib wrote:One thing I've always genuinely wondered is if most people actually feel like that much of the time.

I'm totally convinced that the answer to that question is simple and unambiguous: "No."

People do seem to think that others feel like that though. And I believe that's the cause of at least half of all problems in the world.

anathegram wrote:If you want to come off as old you should be reminiscing about cassette tapes.

I could do that. I was the king of mixtapes. I used to waste a lot of money on expensive "metal" high quality blank cassettes. Maxell was my trusted band. (My spellcheck is trying to tell me I misspelled "Maxell" so I guess that company doesn't exist anymore.

When I finally went digital with music, I had about ten blank metal 90 minute cassettes, still shrink wrapped. Just having them in my possession made me feel secure. I regretted no longer needing them. Not using them seemed like such a waste. I still have them, still shrink-wrapped.

Wait a minute buster, who said I was trying to come off as old? I could have mentioned 8-tracks but they were before even my woe begotten time.

Posting on the internet about buying records just makes you sound like a hipster.

Pffft. That little record excursion occurred circa 1983. This was years before both CD's and hipsters. The air was still rife with the stink of decaying hippies.

How dare you accuse me of "trying" to sound like a hipster!



I will reply to the rest of this thread later. Cognitive impairment high today.