Schizoid v PTSD

My opinion is: Take as much free sessions as you can, it can be interesting if nothing else. Take paied sessions only if you really feel that something is wrong and you would like to get better.

Can't really give you more direct advice, it can be different in each particular case.

Sabratha, you surprise me.

When you stated that my take on the subject was resource-depleting, I thought you meant that going to therapy just to satisfy your curiosity was a selfish act. Now you seem to endorse the idea of taking free lessons.

Insomniakat:
Knowing for certain that you have/don't have SPD will probably give you some piece of mind.
Since you stated that you waste money on antidepressants and therapy, I presume that there is something that is bothering you. A psychologist may be able to help you root out, be it anxiety or stress-related.

Hematemesis Melena wrote:Sabratha, you surprise me.
When you stated that my take on the subject was resource-depleting, I thought you meant that going to therapy just to satisfy your curiosity was a selfish act. Now you seem to endorse the idea of taking free lessons.

Ah, we schizoids can be complex creature at times.
I'm fully in favor of taking free sessions, I just think its expensive to take them only because you consider SPD as a disorder with nothing wrong with you otherwise.

Actually, I think you misunderstood. None of them are free. My insurance covers 12 sessions with my therapist. This means I have to pay my $35 copay every session. When my 12 sessions are up, I will have to pay the entire fee for my therapist, which is $95/session if I want to continue. My t has already made it clear that she understands that we'll meet again when my insurance allows it.

I do think it would be helpful to have a diagnosis though. If I do have it, then going out and being with people is really not a good idea for me. And so on...I don't think therapy is a bad idea right now, as there are some issues that would probably be beneficial for me to get some perspective on. I don't think that therapy is ever a BAD idea...but it would be helpful for this therapist to understand how to treat me.

PTSD criteria (from the DSM):

A. The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following were present:

(1) the person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others
(2) the person's response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror.

I dunno. According to the book I have on PSTD, I have been subject to several traumas that fullfill this criterion. I'll just pretend I agree.

B. The traumatic event is persistently reexperienced in one (or more) of the following ways:

(1) recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event, including images, thoughts, or perceptions.
(2) recurrent distressing dreams of the event.
(3) acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience, illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes, including those that occur on awakening or when intoxicated).
(4) intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event
(5) physiological reactivity on exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event

somewhat 1 and 2 (although I'm not sure I would apply the word "distressing"), yes to 5

C. Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the trauma), as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

(1) efforts to avoid thoughts, feelings, or conversations associated with the trauma
(2) efforts to avoid activities, places, or people that arouse recollections of the trauma
(3) inability to recall an important aspect of the trauma
(4) markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities
(5) feeling of detachment or estrangement from others
(6) restricted range of affect (e.g., unable to have loving feelings)
(7) sense of a foreshortened future (e.g., does not expect to have a career, marriage, children, or a normal life span)

somewhat 1 and 3
yes to 4, 5, 6, and 7

D. Persistent symptoms of increased arousal (not present before the trauma), as indicated by two (or more) of the following:

(1) difficulty falling or staying asleep
(2) irritability or outbursts of anger
(3) difficulty concentrating
(4) hypervigilance
(5) exaggerated startle response

Yes to 1, and somewhat 4 and 5

E. Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in Criteria B, C, and D) is more than 1 month.

Definitely a yes.

F. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Yes.

So it seems that I fulfill the criteria for PTSD as laid down in the DSM. However, I've always been like this.

Now for schizoid personality as laid down by DSM:

A. A pervasive pattern of detachment from social relationships and a restricted range of expression of emotions in interpersonal settings, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:
neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family

Check, although I would like to fall in love at some point, I just feel that it is beyond me. And I'm not so sure about the whole getting married and/or co-habitating...I never had an interest in getting married/cohabitating when I was growing up. I never daydreamed at all about my wedding day...which as a female, makes me extremely odd.

almost always chooses solitary activities

check

has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person

check...although this could be due to childhood crap

takes pleasure in few, if any, activities

check...reading/writing, that's about it

lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives

sort of...i have one best friend that i consider family that i tell things too if needed, but definitely don't consider first-degree relatives as confidants or friends

appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others

sort of...I'm either uncomfortable or indifferent to praise and either irritated/anxious or indifferent to criticism

shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affectivity

Not sure I understand this after looking at this again. If it is SHOWS one of these, then perhaps not. If it is FEELS it, but pretends not to be, then yes to detachment and probably flattened affectivity also.

B. Does not occur exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia, a Mood Disorder With Psychotic Features, another Psychotic Disorder, or a Pervasive developmental disorder and is not due to the direct physiological effects of a general medical condition.

Don't believe so.

Anyway, I'm sort of getting bored with the whole idea of PSTD versus SPD. I'm starting to second guess SPD, because of a few points I've seen on this board.

-I do seem to have access to some emotions, though it's not frequently and almost all of them are negative.

-My empathy is quite low based on a few online empathy tests (it seems to be on par with Aspies). However, I am above average in reading facial expressions (another online test); though this could be due to have to watch out for rapidly shifting moods leading to domestic abuse within my family. I also realize/understand that my actions can impact others emotions (and what the other person would likely feel if I said/did some such action) and I take steps to ensure that I do not hurt people's feelings. I also know intuitively what those steps would be...although, if someone cried around me I would be at a loss as to what to do. If someone needs a hug because they are having a bad day or are sad because someone close to them just died, I would not understand. When someone says they love me I just don't feel it and can't relate (forget about reciprocity).

-I am completely unable to understand the idea of connecting/bonding to people. I have never felt connected to anyone in my life (family included). Although I think it *might* be possible for me *maybe* at *some* point fall in love with someone (as I have had a few crushes I think), I'm not sure that I could feel an emotional bond with that person. Although I might be able to fall in love with someone and feel that feeling, I'm not sure if I would feel a connection/bond with them. This seems to be the reverse of what I've read from people on here.

I would almost say that perhaps I do have PTSD instead of SPD, although I have always been this way and the criteria for PTSD seem to imply a before and after state. However, when you grow up with a not so great homelife that is part of your trauma...how can there be a before/after?

For PTSD read EMDR by Francine Shapiro and Do-It-Yourself Eye Movement Technique by Fred Friedberg. I don't know how this works (some theories are discussed in the books) but I do know that it does work.

As for whether you have SPD or PTSD, you can certainly have both, but you can get rid of the latter.

Just in case anyone is following my saga...

I emailed my therapist yesterday to ask her if she thinks it would be helpful for me to go to a psychiatrist/psychologist to be tested/diagnosed as either PTSD or schizoid. She emailed me back and basically said that I could, but she doesn't think it is necessary. That after thinking about it, she feels that schizoid is more on target. We are going to talk about it in my next session. She said it would be helpful to get a list of psychologist and psychiatrists on my insurance plan that actually do testing.

puma wrote:If you are a Remote schizoid, that could be caused by trauma; i.e. rejection at an early age. If you are a one of the other types, born that way, which it sounds like you are, then PTSD would not apply.
http://booksandcoffee.wordpress.com/spd ... -subtypes/

No offense, but I don't really buy into this subtype $#%^. Therapists seem to have trouble as it is to diagnose the main type PD's. I think the subtypes are just loose categories based on observations in therapy settings and that the categories are overlapping. After all, if you can have several PD's. Why not then several subtypes or a mix between two?

And as far born with it or it being bred I don't think anyone can say born with it with confidence until they find an actual malfunction that causes SPD. Until then it's just speculation.

That schizoids generally lean towards "being born with it" is a rationalisation of their/our unwillingness for change in my opinion. Nothing wrong with that as such, but I dislike persuasions that don't have a solid factual basis.

insomniakat wrote:Just in case anyone is following my saga...

I emailed my therapist yesterday to ask her if she thinks it would be helpful for me to go to a psychiatrist/psychologist to be tested/diagnosed as either PTSD or schizoid. She emailed me back and basically said that I could, but she doesn't think it is necessary. That after thinking about it, she feels that schizoid is more on target. We are going to talk about it in my next session. She said it would be helpful to get a list of psychologist and psychiatrists on my insurance plan that actually do testing.

Well, I'm following it. I think you have the right instinct in assuming that therapy may help. While it isn't sure that it will, it is even more probable that therapy won't do anything for you if you think it won't. As for getting a diagnosis or a second opinion I don't really want to give advice one way or the other, but a thing to consider is that not all therapists are the same. Some are rubbish and some are brilliant so unless you know yours is in the latter category trying someone else might be an idea.

Yeah, I sort of agree with you HungryJoe. I looked at the subtypes and it seems like I fit both languid and remote in a lot of ways. Not a big deal, since I'm not even positive I have SPD. And because I'm not that movitated to get diagnosed anymore (since the initial aha! and spd v ptsd buzz has worn off), it's hard as hell to try to make appointments with these idiots when I keep getting their voicemail or the insurance company had them listed wrong or that they don't take insurance for testing. I wouldn't have even called again, but I told my therapist I would try to get an apt or find out some information before the next session.

One office worker I called said she would call me back to do an intake. I asked 'when?' because I work in an office and really want to be prepared to go SOMEWHERE ELSE to take the call. All she said was she tends to do them every other day and that's all she could tell me. I asked her when she would do them next (if she does them every other day then logically she would know the DAY, correct?). Apparently not. She couldn't tell me. She then told me that the shrink was about to go on vacation and that they were trying to get things wrapped up with that and that none of this was a priority.

I just wish out of the six professionals I called (sometimes twice) that I would have an actual appointment now. If no one calls me back I'm not going to bother with it again. It's too much hassel. The people seem like they are doing you a favor just to take your money and talk with you for an hour. It's such a racket.

Oops...I think I got off topic.