Schizoid Enlightenment

Runestone wrote:Correct me if im wrong, but taoism contain three "schools", namely; the Philosophy, the ritual (shamanic) and the religious

Yes you can look at Taoism as a philosophy or a religion & there is more ritualized/magical tradition in it as well. But most Eastern religions can be viewed that way.

Runestone wrote:Im no expert in either movements, but taoism appeal more to me than buddhism. The taoist philosophy, that is.

Yes there is a lot to appreciate about Taoism as a philosophy. I think it would appeal to a lot of people with SPD because of it's focus on noninvolvement. Lao Tzu is fascinating but cryptic & paradoxical, but Chuang Tzu's stories are among my favorite books. His is the philosophy of someone who just wants to be left alone. He's skeptical of the value of all the things that most people hold up as valuable & he's got a good sense of humor. A quote from him "What ordinary people do and what they find happiness in -- I don't know whether such happiness is in the end really happiness or not. I look at what ordinary people find happiness in, what they all make a mad dash for, racing around as though they couldn't stop - they all say they're happy with it. I'm not happy with it and I'm not unhappy with it. In the end is there really happiness or isn't there?"

To return to the question of the Taoism and loss of self. The focus of Taoist philosophy is contemplation of the Tao, which unlike a person is described as a block of wood. As Chuang Tzu says (from a different translation) "Among them all, man alone is more than an object. Though, like objects, he has form and semblance, He is not limited to form. He is more. He can attain to formlessness."

Most mystical traditions, regardless of the religious trappings involved, have some common elements. They even use the same kinds of metaphors to describe the mystical/religious experience. And while I don't consider myself a believer in any religion, I do believe that there are transformative experiences or altered states of consciousness that can change a person for the better.

Very nice post "biteme".
I will see if i can find some book by "Chuang Tzu", since it suits me very well, to read from such like minded persons.

Biteme wrote:
"Most mystical traditions, regardless of the religious teaching involved, have some common elements. They even use the same kinds of metaphors to describe the mystical/religious experience. And while I don't consider myself a believer in any religion, I do believe that there are transformative experiences or altered states of consciousness that can change a person for the better.[/"

I agree, there is something southing about mindfullness, no matter wich religion or philosophy it may come from.
Only do i have a issue with someone, trying to label the blissfullness and feelings of love and peace, with terms like, christianity, islam, hinduism, tongil, sai babba, etc.
Like they have the patent on happiness.
When you look at some southern babtist gospel, and see how extatic and blissfull they are, it is no different than what the buddhist experience in deep meditation, and soo forth. However they all claim, that they are different, and have found the highest form of illumination.
I saw a docu about cults, where the members told, that they thourght their leader/guru was God, because the went in to extacy, when they chanted his name constantly.
It is the same difference, in all of these movements, but they all tag a different brand on it.

it would be nice, if we could find a way, to enter the stage of extatic bliss, from a natural standpoint, when it after all, is all the same love we feel, regardless.

I think you're correct in that SPD can potentially lead to enlightenment. Our outside viewpoints; the ever observing and detached view of life is one that most people 'hope' to temporarily attain through meditation, outdoor camping expeditions, and drugs.

We can somewhat reverse engineer SPD by constantly putting ourselves out there in uncomfortable situations, but ordinary people can't easily progress forward to SPD mindsets without regular intense outside stimuli. That's why I agree with why SPD can be viewed as a path to enlightenment. Our understanding of the world is greater than most and through compensation for our shortfalls we can have the best of both worlds of thinking, ordinary and extraordinary.

The trick I've discovered to continuing growth in enlightenment is to regularly step outside the normal bounds and the comfort zones of oneself. If you hate dancing and going out drinking, find some pals to drag you out and do it. If you hate physical activity, try putting on your most driving music, get some advice, and do your damnest at some serious workouts.

I personally have had several 'wake-up' moments where observations and experiences that I've forced myself to build over the years have coalesced to form important information about myself and others, and how to act 'better'. This accrued knowledge has even gone so far as to help me give others some insight into my mind. This in turn has allowed me to connect more with others more easily and naturally. There's many other subtle benefits that I can and can't mention that come with it.

-Force- yourself to go out and keep doing it. Take breaks when you need to, but don't stop trying. Eventually you'll reach new breakthroughs and that leads to enlightenment.