Just found out I'm not "normal".

An interesting fool is still a fool.

quiet-loner wrote:People who use drugs are fools.
Is it wise to ask the advice of a fool?

Alcohol is a drug, are people who drink alcohol fools?
Caffeine is a drug, are people who drink coffee fools?

If I wanted advice on alcohol, I would not ask somebody who has never tried it.

For information on hallucinogens, visit www.erowid.org

Hallucinogens do not cause hallucinations. You may see things other people don't see, but these are illusions, not hallucinations. Very few people interpret hallucinogen-induced visions as real happenings in the world around them.
Hallucinogens distort or change sensory perceptions, they do not create perceptions of things that have no sensory basis. They are therefore defined as illusions, not hallucinations.

The only drugs I know of that produce true hallucinations are the tropane alkoloids like the ones found in Jimsonweed and Belladonna. Such hallucinations are indistinguishable from real sensory input. You may think you are having a conversation with another person and there will be no doubt in your mind that the person is there. That is the same quality of hallucinations that certain types of mental illness cause.
The drugs usually called hallucinogens do not give this type of realistic hallucinations.

I will amend my previous statement.

People who use illegal drugs are fools.

Asking someone who breaks the law how to break the same law yourself is foolish.

So if you use magic mushrooms in the USA were they are illegal, then you are a fool. But if you use them in Holland were they are legal, then you are not a fool.
Your definition of foolishness has to do with breaking the law, and has nothing to do with drugs?

Like a fan in a myst, you cleared my doubts. I didnt know all that. Will do some looking around halucinations and illusions.
Cya!

Anonymous wrote:So if you use magic mushrooms in the USA were they are illegal, then you are a fool. But if you use them in Holland were they are legal, then you are not a fool.
Your definition of foolishness has to do with breaking the law, and has nothing to do with drugs?

You are correct to point out that there are some anomalies in the laws of various countries. Sometimes the law is also foolish.

There is a clear and important difference in terms of safety between legal drugs such as alcohol and randomly picked bits of psychoactive fungus.
While alcohol can not be considered a safe drug it is made in controlled conditions to carefully regulated strengths allowing it to be used in relative safety by adults. With randomly picked bits of fungus or illegally produced drugs there is no way of knowing the strength or purity prior to taking it.
This is why using these psychoactive substances is foolish.

Sorry, but look at the statistics.

Alcohol: Thousands of deaths per year.
Sigarettes: Thousands of deaths per year.
Psilocybin mushrooms: No recorded deaths in history.
Cannabis: No recorded deaths in history.
LSD: No recorded deaths in history.
Salvia: No recorded deaths in history.

You might argue that people throwing themselves from windows also should be regarded as drug-related death, but that is so rare that it is an almost non-existant danger. Alcohol-related deaths like road accidents, drownings, suicides, murder and liver desease also take thousands of lives per year. Alcohol is a direct cause of much of the violence seen in homes and on the street, hallucinogens cause no violence.

How can you say that alcohol is safer? Alcohol kills more people than all the illegal drugs combined, including crack and heroine.

Anyway, many people die from methanol poisoning when drinking boot-leg alcohol. This may not be a problem in the US but it is a problem in many countries where the government is trying to reduce the alcohol consumption by raising alcohol prices. So alcohol is not always made under safe conditions. The only danger in picking mushrooms is by picking ones that are not psychoactive, but poisonous. It's easy to grow your own mushrooms, salvia and weed, so quality and safety is no problem.

You are correct to point out that there are some anomalies in the laws of various countries.
Sometimes the law is also foolish.

The law is foolish to ban hallucinogens which are the safest drugs out there, while still allowing alcohol to be sold freely. It would be a much safer world if we could get people to chose safer drugs.

I did not say that alcohol was safe only that it could be used in relative safety by adults. It is the abuse of alcohol that rusults in so many deaths each year.
The relative safety of alcohol lies in the dose being easily regulated by the user.

many people die from methanol poisoning when drinking boot-leg alcohol. So alcohol is not always made under safe conditions

I'm glad to see you acknowledge that the illegal and unregulated production of a drug is dangerous.

quiet-loner wrote:I did not say that alcohol was safe only that it could be used in relative safety by adults. It is the abuse of alcohol that results in so many deaths each year.
The relative safety of alcohol lies in the dose being easily regulated by the user.

Abuse of any drug leads to problems. There is a difference between use and abuse, this is true for all drugs. But even use of normal doses of alcohol causes violence and acidents. From what I have seen it is very common for people to take too high doses of alcohol. Judgement becomes so impared after only small amounts of alcohol, that one can not call it easily regulated.

many people die from methanol poisoning when drinking boot-leg alcohol. So alcohol is not always made under safe conditions

I'm glad to see you acknowledge that the illegal and unregulated production of a drug is dangerous.

If cannabis, mushrooms and other drugs became legal, the production could be goverment regulated and quality checked.

The drug problem today is mostly caused by the legal status of many drugs. Like during the alcohol prohibition, the laws governing these substances create opertunities for criminals and in fact create crime. Many "criminals" have not done anything worse than chose a different drug than alcohol and otherwise respectable people are fined and jailed though they are not harming themselves or others with their choice of drug. Legalizing drugs would remove most of the income for the mafia, gerilja groups, terrorists, drug lords, gangs, pushers and other criminals. It would free up space in jail for violent criminals and the real bad guys. It would free up police rescources so they could focus on important things. Countless billions of dollars are spent on persecuting people who smoke weed in the weekends instead of drinking alcohol. This money could be spent on improving the situation of poor families in the inner cities, for education, for health care and other things. We don't need more jails to lock up stoners. We need social justice and equal opertunities for all people.

Xtramad wrote:Abuse of any drug leads to problems. There is a difference between use and abuse, this is true for all drugs. But even use of normal doses of alcohol causes violence and acidents.

The problem here is in the definition of the word normal. If the normal dose ie. average consumption is too high it is alcohol abuse.

If cannabis, mushrooms and other drugs became legal, the production could be goverment regulated and quality checked.

I agree but unless that happens those drugs that are currently illegal cannot be considered safe.