At the end of my rope

Subconsciously possibly rooted in a fearful, wrong-headed desire to "take back" power, but you/we can never ultimately know.

There's definitely something subconscious about it. Looking back, I think it was me finally accepting the (very wrong) lesson that everyone seemed to be pushing, that more considerate boys aren't "manly" enough and get abused, and they deserve it. So it was like the message was, my being abused and bullied was my fault, for not being manly and strong enough. I felt ashamed at being "weak" while everyone else was respected for being strong and able to bully me easily. And the reason I became convinced of this very wrong view was, I thought how could I be right and everyone else wrong? Surely I must be the one who's wrong, when my parents, siblings, teachers, classmates all just do whatever they feel like with me and I'd just always be the loser in the interaction. So I "upped my game" after that.

I can relate to this. It's not good enough that society leaves children to discover sex through what they find on the internet. Sometimes that'll be a good sex educator like Laci Green... sometimes it will be the most misogynist of online pornography.

I almost never had private access to the internet so I didn't even learn much from there. I had no personal space, and was practically watched all the time. I was sharing a space with a sibling who took great pleasure in sadistically bullying me. Several times I was reduced to begging him to stop and he would just laugh and increase his aggression towards me even more.

When I told on him, my parents would find whatever way to shut down my complaint because it annoyed them. Either both of us would get punished, or I'd be blamed for being too easy a target - whatever would let them escape me the fastest.

Additionally, I had no reliable outlet to "do my business" as a teenager. I was almost NEVER alone and it became maddening after a while. You'd think parents would have at least a hint of what their teens were going through, but no. No "the talk." No personal space. No consideration at all. They treated me as a subject, not as a person, and they made that clear.

My formal sex education lesson consisted of my form teacher in year 9 telling all the lads how his scout troupe had "ravaged" a group of girl guides in their tent. Later that same year he badgered a bunch of us into playing a game of spin the bottle while he watched. Erg.

This is just terrible. Something similar: one thing I'd seen was from the old TV show "Happy Days." In one episode, the main characters engaged in a "panty raid" which is just absurdly rapey. They'd sneak or break into college girls' dorm rooms and steal their underwear. Things like this and provocative music videos at the time (as a sidenote: these things were bizarrely aimed at kids) further increased the curiosity.

True, but I think a lot of that anger was due to the hypocrisy of Duggar setting himself up as Christian bastion of morality on TV. Also, he molested his siblings over several years up to and including his 18th

You're right about the hypocrisy, but iirc he did it 3 times total and each time he confessed to his dad afterwards. His dad chose to do nothing until it went to court somehow, then he sent him off to some fake rehabilitation program run by a later-convicted sex offender.

Nonetheless, he was a boy raised in a crazy cult and not taught about anything. Lena Dunham is indeed a similar case. You might disagree but I find the defense of her purely political. But I digress.

I truly think society has lost something. It used to be able to forgive. That's what my earlier rant was about. I'm not saying it should come for free. But I would like to earn it. I want to help people and give back more than I've taken. But it feels impossible.

Also I think if we are going to be realistic, we have to admit society is schizophrenic about sex. There's just no consensus on how to teach it. Half of us makes it out intact, a quarter messes up but suppress the memories, the remaining quarter (us) posts on forums like this and have nightmares for the rest of their lives.

It might just be a coincidence but that it weirdly similar to the year or so that preceded my abusively "dating" a 16/17-year-old. Post-viral fatigue with weird tingly sensations in my extremities and brief hospitalisation and an MRI scan for a phantom brain tumour. Because I thought I was going to die, I became very isolated, which is how I ended up spending all my time in my room on my computer in a state of foggy sleep deprivation.

I don't think it's a coincidence. There are many studies that relate poor behavior and even criminality to biological factors. Look it up, you'll be shocked. Lead exposure is one big one. The others are vitamin deficiencies and allergies. I think our understanding of the world will be revolutionized once these studies become the consensus. Which they certainly will. These studies are VERY solid.

Again, this is not an excuse. It doesn't remove guilt at all. But what it does is bring back the Christian concept (which you might disagree with) that everyone is capable of sin. Nobody should think they're high and mighty, if you changed a couple amoral variables in their past they might not be so spotless. It's crazy that at any given time, you are a certain degree of lead exposure away from behaving criminally. Lead is not a moral thing, it's not like "if you had evil influences when you were young..." which would have a moral character and a moral origin of your evil actions. Amoral factors can influence immoral actions. That's insane.

Knowing all of this is what makes me struggle. A naive or dishonest person might say "ok, this excuses everything I did." But my reaction is just bewilderment.

And I swear, that I was burned out since age 11-12. Rushing to the ER thinking I was dying, thinking that was the end... The symptoms never went away. I would black out. My entire body would hurt, more than just pins and needles. I became a bit deformed for a short while, and the only good teacher I had noticed it, and he told me that I should tell my parents to help me, as I was looking visibly emaciated and broken down. My face was swollen. Who knows what that was. But I swear that it was real, and I was living in a nightmare of abuse mixed with 24/7 physical torture. I swear this is not just an excuse, it is the honest truth.

Thank you for responding in such detail. You are truly helping me. I have tried having this kind of talk with therapists but they just don't have the depth. They took my point about lead exposure and tried to make it "great, so don't blame yourself anymore." which is just dishonest.

My whole existence has been hell. That's why I keep thinking of ending it. I understand your notion of continuing to exist as a flawed person trying to improve. Christianity is not even against this, in fact it says that anyone can be redeemed if they repent. And this is probably my only remaining hope. But I don't want to just lazily say "ok" and pretend I'm magically redeemed. I have to work and suffer for it or else it'll just be meaningless. That's what I would like to do, but I find I'm actually unable. I am stumped at this whole kind of existence.

*content warning for some discussion of self-harm*

NeverHadAChance wrote:My whole existence has been hell. That's why I keep thinking of ending it. I understand your notion of continuing to exist as a flawed person trying to improve. Christianity is not even against this, in fact it says that anyone can be redeemed if they repent. And this is probably my only remaining hope. But I don't want to just lazily say "ok" and pretend I'm magically redeemed. I have to work and suffer for it or else it'll just be meaningless. That's what I would like to do, but I find I'm actually unable. I am stumped at this whole kind of existence.

I know where you're coming from... but how do you/we know when enough suffering is enough? One of the limitations of traditional depictions of Hell (whether Christian or Buddhist) is they're always based around specific tortures and punishments - being flayed; whipped; burnt alive etc. However, Hell - metaphysically at least - is surely not just infinite temporally but also infinite in suffering. There's only do much pain and suffering our brains can measure within our mortal forms.

So... while you say your "whole existence has been hell"... rightly or wrongly, I suspect pleasure creeps in, even now. And if not pleasure, less suffering than infinite suffering. For instance, when I've had bad food poisoning in the past I've felt absolutely wretched and as though it couldn't be worse... but having a migraine while also having food poisoning would be worse. Experiencing both while simultaneously watching my loved ones tortured would be worse etc. etc. etc.

And I don't think it's possible to inflict that kind of suffering on oneself since, ultimately, you have control over the situation. 8/9 years back when I first started reflecting on my behaviour and experiencing daily shame and guilt I used to self-harm a bit, punching myself in the face or rubbing parts of myself on the carpet to give myself burns... But I came to feel that it was not only not benefiting anyone else, it was kind of self-indulgent. I don't mean to say that to criticise others who self-harm. Most people who self-harm **are victims not abusers** who do it to "get the pain out" and become addicted to that cycle, it seems.

If we victimize ourselves if it though we are just trying to entrench our victimhood to get away from having to see oneself as a perpetrator, I feel.

Though it is complicated perhaps if one has also been victimized... and maybe that's true of most people who have later victimized another person. IDK.

I know where you're coming from... but how do you/we know when enough suffering is enough?

I have no idea. That's quite a problem isn't it?

One of the limitations of traditional depictions of Hell (whether Christian or Buddhist) is they're always based around specific tortures and punishments - being flayed; whipped; burnt alive etc.

That's a Catholic-esque view of hell which I don't subscribe to. You are right that there's always someone worse off than you, or that there's always some way it could be worse. And you are right about self-harm. And I guess that does transfer to suicide, which is just wrong for that reason.

I also have to admit you're right that maybe this reaction is akin to shouting "what about me?" as if the victim instead of perpetrator. You are probably right about that. But it's not meant as a deflection, as I do accept full responsibility for the mistakes I've made. It's meant primarily as: I'll do anything to pay the price, or, just look how sorry I truly am. But yes, it's also mixed with the idea that "I think I am a victim too" which I agree with you, I failed to recognize that before. That part of it, to me, translates to "I give up" hence my feeling of just ending my life. Overall I'd summarize the whole thing as "I don't know what I can do, I give up trying to determine how I can repay my debt, so just take my entire life..."

I know suicide is wrong and terrible. I think the idea comes up because I feel cornered and hopeless. I will never kill myself. But I can't get rid of the thought nonetheless, it's gnawing at me.

Sorry if I'm a bit incoherent in my posts. I'm under a high level of stress as you can imagine.

And there are always those truths that are in the back of my head that I can't ignore: I was regularly abused for years. I was reduced to begging and suicidal ideation as everyone just steamrolled me until the point where I wanted to die. I lost my sanity at several points and just remained in a stupor.

Anyone that I transgressed against doesn't need to hear this, I take full responsibility to them. But outside of that relationship, I think it's essential to consider these facts because they are the truth.