Guilt and frightening thoughts - what's wrong with me?

(MOD EDIT: TRIGGER WARNING FOR DESCRIPTIONS OF SELF-HARM)

I made an account just to ask this, mainly because i don't want to bother people at my other forum with it. Let's see if I can explain this coherently.

I have recurring thoughts of self-harm and of generally "deserving" to be hurt. This has been happening since I was fairly young, elementary school maybe. I rarely act on them, and when I do the results are pathetic compared to real self-harm. I'm slammed my head with doors and whipped my limbs with belts. My earliest memory of acting on such an impulse was scratching my arms as hard as I could (which wasn't even enough to draw blood or anything like that). I was maybe 9 or 10, and did it right there, under my desk in the classroom. I don't even remember what triggered me, but I do remember other kids asking what happened to my arms.

One of my biggest triggers is other peoples' suffering. Reading accounts of assault, abuse, neglect, torture, bullying - there's something in me that makes me want...to experience it, I guess. Something that thinks "That should be me. I deserve that." No reason, nothing I did, I just deserve it. I should suffer, horribly. Real suffering, like what these people went through. I have no real problems and that's bad.

The other major trigger is simply fugues of self-hate and self-directed rage. Here it makes a little more sense, I think. My mind floods with fury at myself, torrents of negativity. Somewhere in there, the urge to hurt myself crops up. This I guess is a little more "normal". Yet it doesn't explain the desire to be hurt. As in, by someone else. In my worst moments (for both triggers), I've seriously considered getting some money, and hiring someone to hurt me. Why? To feel pain that comes from something external, to assuage my guilt about not suffering anything real, to justify what negative feelings I do have.

I've finally started scouring the internet for information after an "attack" of these kinds of feelings yesterday, the worst I'd had in a long time. This was the latter type of trigger, self-hate and anger. I'm sitting there in the library, ruminating about how awful, unhealthy, ugly my body is, mentally screaming and berating myself for being so disgusting and horrible. Then the urge for harm started. I came up with three main options: claw at my throat, strangle myself somehow, or go into the bathroom and smash my head against a wall. I did nothing of any kind, but breathe deeply and try to calm down and distract myself. But that's the worst urge I've had in a while now.

I keep wondering what on earth this is, seeing as most of the time it's a completely non-sexual desire for others to hurt me, rather than typical self-harm. Feelings of guilt and deserving pain. Thoughts that frighten me with how intense they are. Yet they aren't constant. It comes and goes in waves. Sometimes I go months without any intrusive thoughts, then it will hit and last a day or two.

What is this, is what I'm asking. Or is it nothing to worry about?

I can elaborate on anything as needed, and I apologize if this is in the wrong subforum. Given that irrational guilt and remorse are major triggers, I figured I could put it here.

It seems like part of your impulse is compassionate towards others (you say you want to know the suffering that other people feel) but not self-compassionate. I think the self-harming, even if it is not drawing blood, is a concern. It's a vicious cycle and while it may relieve temporary self-loathing and anxiety, it is not a permanent fix. Have you considered therapy or counselling? I don't think it has to be a massive thing or something that only people who are "seriously unwell" or suicidal need to do. Even if it's not a matter of trying to get to the root of where your self-loathing comes from, it might help give you some strategies to redirect these energies away from self-harming.

I also think that what you are describing would be familiar to most people who have self-harmed (I have done so in the past and like you tended to do things that didn't draw blood but still hurt) and that was before I did anything in particular to feel really guilty about so I'm not sure where it came from. I think it began as a young teen but I rarely do it anymore.

I think it would be worth your while talking to other in the self-harm forum, but I'm also happy to chat here as moderator of Remorse.

P.S. I've also put a trigger warning at the start of your post just in case.

sprock wrote:It seems like part of your impulse is compassionate towards others (you say you want to know the suffering that other people feel) but not self-compassionate. I think the self-harming, even if it is not drawing blood, is a concern. It's a vicious cycle and while it may relieve temporary self-loathing and anxiety, it is not a permanent fix. Have you considered therapy or counselling? I don't think it has to be a massive thing or something that only people who are "seriously unwell" or suicidal need to do. Even if it's not a matter of trying to get to the root of where your self-loathing comes from, it might help give you some strategies to redirect these energies away from self-harming.

I didn't think it's a "massive thing", but I suppose it felt kind of...freakish. Especially how I do experience such guilt as to want someone to hurt me. That, I think, is actually the core of it rather than urges to self-harm, though I'm sorry, I emphasized that in my OP. The feeling of deserving to be hurt, for some reason. Of guilt over not experiencing similar pain as someone else. Angry, violent urges coming from a place of personal loathing are more ancillary.

I have considered counseling; once I tried to bring up something like this with a previous counselor, I was basically told that if I'm not acting on it, it's not a problem. Though, I would like to know where this mess comes from. I mean, it's one thing to read about someone's awful life and feel sympathetic towards them; it's another to wish it (or something similarly painful) would happen to you.

I also think that what you are describing would be familiar to most people who have self-harmed (I have done so in the past and like you tended to do things that didn't draw blood but still hurt) and that was before I did anything in particular to feel really guilty about so I'm not sure where it came from. I think it began as a young teen but I rarely do it anymore.

I think it would be worth your while talking to other in the self-harm forum, but I'm also happy to chat here as moderator of Remorse.

Awesome, thanks.

I tend not to think of it as relevant self-harm because it's so rare. Like, "once or twice a year" rare.

P.S. I've also put a trigger warning at the start of your post just in case.

Okay. Didn't know about the policy. Thanks.

Don't worry about the policy, hon. Long time users get used to adding *trigger warning* to posts and topics as needed, after a while ppl get a feel for when to add a TW, it also varies from forum to forum what constitutes a trigger. No big deal, mods add them all the time for new users. And experienced ones, I've forgot a time or two.

I'm with Sprock a version of this could cross post in Self Harm, the users and mods there are great. I'm a self harmer, that's what got me started in PF. I'm glad you don't cut, be careful even so, especially with urges to hit your head. I started out that way but got tired of making myself dizzy, I try really hard to not give into that.

I would suggest that wanting others to hurt you is a manifestation of that self harm urge. It would satisfy the desire to self punish, and to feel suffering, but take it out of your hands, your responsibility. What do you think?

And I think your use of the term, intrusive thoughts, is quite interesting.. Do you have other kinds of intrusive thoughts or compulsions? This has a very ocd feel to me. You might cross post there, too. I suffer from OCD in a couple different flavors, and you remind me of me. It's hard to explain. Say I'm worried about an upstairs faucet. Sometimes checking it several times is not enough. I want to stare at it. Keep touching it. Experience the sensation of the faucet not running. Almost like every fiber of my being must experience that faucet being off so that I can totally know it is off on every level. I know that's an imperfect analogy but I actually find your description of being triggered by stories of abuse to trigger my OCD in regards to the example I cited. This overwhelming urge to become one with your, your... distress over others' misfortune. That you must feel the adversity completely.

Does that sound similar to what you feel?

It's generally considered okay to post the same thing in up to three related forums. I like to advise rather than simply cutting and pasting, to rephrase it slightly, emphasizing the particular facet of your concerns that are most fitting to the particular forum. Eg you feel terrible remorse, here. In SH you struggle with urges to SH. In, say, ocd (if this sounds obsessive-compulsive to you) you have these recurring thoughts you can't stop thinking and feel as if you must assuage them.

Just a thought, don't have to do any of that but as you say, you tried to pick the best forum, but you could throw the same subject out in one or two more and no one's going to say anything about it.

Didn't have internet for a couple days, jut getting back on now. And I might as well confess, even if this would be better off in the SH forum.

I gave in yesterday, last night specifically. Gave in and beat myself, after several days of distracting myself. I actually drew blood this time too. When I finished I cleaned myself up, showered, treated the injuries with witch hazel, cried for about 15 minutes while contemplating calling a hotline, but ended up just going to sleep. Today there's barely any evidence that I did anything, other than some bruising that's easily covered, and some small cuts. And I have a headache. But other than that....it disturbs me a little how my own type of "self-harm" is so easy to hide.

snaga2.0 wrote:Don't worry about the policy, hon. Long time users get used to adding *trigger warning* to posts and topics as needed, after a while ppl get a feel for when to add a TW, it also varies from forum to forum what constitutes a trigger. No big deal, mods add them all the time for new users. And experienced ones, I've forgot a time or two.

I'm with Sprock a version of this could cross post in Self Harm, the users and mods there are great. I'm a self harmer, that's what got me started in PF. I'm glad you don't cut, be careful even so, especially with urges to hit your head. I started out that way but got tired of making myself dizzy, I try really hard to not give into that.

I would suggest that wanting others to hurt you is a manifestation of that self harm urge. It would satisfy the desire to self punish, and to feel suffering, but take it out of your hands, your responsibility. What do you think?

I think it's a possible explanation. I've also considered that, by having someone else do it, it would become more...real, I guess. More legitimate as suffering and punishment than if I just did something to myself. That's part of why, when I do self-injure, it's things like whipping or beating myself: things that mimic actual punishments that people give. I've never heard of, for example, a parent taking a child's arm and making a cut with a knife or a razor as punishment. But I have heard of people being beaten with fists or belts.

Also, I'm just a coward. I'm too much of a wuss to do something like cut.

And I think your use of the term, intrusive thoughts, is quite interesting.. Do you have other kinds of intrusive thoughts or compulsions? This has a very ocd feel to me. You might cross post there, too. I suffer from OCD in a couple different flavors, and you remind me of me. It's hard to explain. Say I'm worried about an upstairs faucet. Sometimes checking it several times is not enough. I want to stare at it. Keep touching it. Experience the sensation of the faucet not running. Almost like every fiber of my being must experience that faucet being off so that I can totally know it is off on every level.

When I first started looking for information on this, I kept getting something called harm OCD. It sounds similar if not for: 1) harm OCD seems to mainly involve fear of causing harm, or of receiving it. Self-directed self-harm urges don't really fall into either of those categories, and 2) It's not frequent enough with me. That's a huge part of it. I do not fight these feelings constantly, not even close. They come in attacks, sudden and involuntary waves, and even those aren't totally consistent (I have had moments of stepping on a normal "trigger" and not wanting pain, just experiencing guilt. Emotional outbursts are much more likely to drive me to truly self-injure or at least want to than does guilt over others' suffering; see below).

I call the thoughts intrusive because much of the time, they are, in a colloquial sense. I don't like that I may have to put a book down if I come to a scene that describe someone being abused because my mind floods with guilt and starts replacing the character with myself; I don't like feeling stabs of guilt when I hear about someone's difficult life. I feel weak that I can't stomach most dark humor because I involuntarily envision myself as the victim of whatever's happening, which kills any humor potential. I don't like that scenes from movies or TV shows can sometimes haunt me and keep replaying in my head, with myself in the victim role.

Sorry to ramble.

I know that's an imperfect analogy but I actually find your description of being triggered by stories of abuse to trigger my OCD in regards to the example I cited. This overwhelming urge to become one with your, your... distress over others' misfortune. That you must feel the adversity completely.

Does that sound similar to what you feel?

YES. That's it exactly.

And sorry for triggering you. I didn't mean to, I promise.

It's generally considered okay to post the same thing in up to three related forums. I like to advise rather than simply cutting and pasting, to rephrase it slightly, emphasizing the particular facet of your concerns that are most fitting to the particular forum. Eg you feel terrible remorse, here. In SH you struggle with urges to SH. In, say, ocd (if this sounds obsessive-compulsive to you) you have these recurring thoughts you can't stop thinking and feel as if you must assuage them.

Just a thought, don't have to do any of that but as you say, you tried to pick the best forum, but you could throw the same subject out in one or two more and no one's going to say anything about it.

Thanks, I think I might take it to the SH forum.

Sorry you SH'd definitely be careful and try to be kind to yourself!

Don't apologize or be concerned, sometimes I think on PF we start throwing the word Trigger around too much. You brought back strong feelings of my more 'out there' ocd checking moments. Didn't cause distress, tho.

If you find the sh or the urges frequent, there's a thread in that forum asking how people are feeling that is the day-to-day support thread, don't hesitate to post if you find yourself fighting urges to beat yourself.


Gentle hugs if wanted