I think this is the end, I cant bare the guilt anymore

No problem Sprock.


I always seem to ask myself questions of how others will perceive this, and wish to find honest answers.
Such as, how would the public view this?
How would the law view this?
Do I really deserve to get over this?
My sister says she doesn't remember, but maybe she's not saying anything?
What if she remembers way down the line? But by not asking her consistently feels like an injustice to her.

I always try to accept that I was around 10 and maybe my abuse had something to do with it. But what I always get to the end which is, I chose to do this. When I'm nearing to accepting it, I look up news stories or similar posts and feel awful. But perhaps I deserve it. I just want I get over this but I don't think I deserve/can.

-- Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:20 am --

Also it's always at work, when on break I sneak off and constantly look up stories and compare. Then the rest of the work day I feel awful and antisocial. But again maybe I deserve all of these intense physically hurting emotions. Thanks

-- Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:33 am --

Sorry also,

I can't enjoy anything I used to, video games, playing guitar and even listening to music.
I also fear that maybe deep down my mother or siblings or anyone else I told really hates me for what I did. It's just all these things go around my head daily and always fully effective. I know I posted a lot of questions but I'm desperate and want to know the honest answers. I feel as though I don't deserve to ever feel any sort of pleasure.

I truly feel I'll never reach normalcy.

Heartfullofguilt2 wrote:Thanks Sprock. You are a wonderful person. I genuinely thank you for your insightful contributions, and more importantly understanding this crazy thing called OCD.

Gee, thanks.

I feel like you have tunnel vision and are asking questions you know the answers to, but in that moment you can't look beyond your worries. At least three of those questions you posted in your final post there have been answered by us already. But I'm not aware of this disorder and its workings so forgive me if I am ignorant. Nothing wrong with it - just explaining why I don't feel I can contribute anything else to you in this state as I've said it all before.

Maybe consider seeing a different therapist to help you deal with the way you are dealing with this issue, which - I'm sure - is a much bigger problem than what it is you actually did. I hear you're on medication? Sometimes in the beginning it can make things worse. Talk to your professional. If you're not satisfied, come back and ask for advice or just plain go out and find a different one.

Take care of yourself, and good luck.

I'm sorry S-SS. If I seemed cold to you by not acknowledging your contributions I apologize. Your posts have helped me greatly, truly

It's just that I don't see this as a "Disorder", but clearly something is not right. I feel like by accepting what I've done and forgiving myself isn't right in some way.

My main influences are news stories or articles of similarity to my situation and I connect the dots. My therapist told me to stop searching for these articles and stuff, but it feels as if i'm avoiding the issue by doing that. It feels as if I'm unforgivable. I can't accept what my therapist says. Like "it's not uncommon", or "you were abused as well". Also my Psychiatrist just yesterday prescribed me another medication, she said it seemed like I had an alternate reality of things. But what I did was really wrong right? Is it acceptable? and more importantly can I forgive myself and move on?

-- Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:44 pm --

It's as if I can't accept anything unless it's negative.

Heartfullofguilt2 wrote:I'm sorry S-SS. If I seemed cold to you by not acknowledging your contributions I apologize. Your posts have helped me greatly, truly

Hah.

Heartfullofguilt2 wrote:Is it acceptable? and more importantly can I forgive myself and move on?

It really is. You were so young. You were just a kid. You had no sinister intentions, did you? Your sister hasn't even been hurt by this. She hasn't, and in fact, doesn't even remember it anymore. And why would she? It happened once. You can and should forgive yourself, because you were not aware of what you were doing and had no bad intentions at all.

As I said, if you feel like you may have done damage to her despite the fact she says she does not remember, be alert for signs of internal torment (not actively searching, just passive looking out for her in a "big brother" type of way) and you can deal with that at that moment, should anything ever show up. Look at that as your way to pay her back - make sure you have a clear conscience, so you can function and be the brother she deserves by making sure you will immediately be there should your actions in the past have inadvertently caused any harm.

The older she gets the clearer it should become to you so you can come to accept that she is fine.

You repented, you felt bad, punished yourself, told her, your family, felt the shame... You did your time. More than even warranted. Now move on, and try to open your eyes to the possibility that she loves you, doesn't care it happened, truly doesn't even remember, and is, indeed, just a happy little girl.

Now all she needs is an equally happy big brother to have fun with her.

Heartfullofguilt2 wrote: It's as if I can't accept anything unless it's negative.

Glad that you're making such an observation yourself. It's a healthy thought. Sounds like you're heading in the right direction.

You'll be fine. I'll cross my fingers. Good luck.

Thanks much, s-ss.

I also have an odd memory of me placing my genitals on or in my brothers(11 months younger) mouth while he was sleeping. I was around 11. No idea why I did that either. I told him but he said "why are you worrying about this stuff?" This was at the period we experimented quite a lot together, being so close in age. I'm sure this happened after what my step brother did to me. But I don't understand why. I don't know if I can forgive myself for that either. I mean this stuff isn't normal is it? I feel bombarded with with childhood memories.

I wish I could roll all of them up in one and forgive myself. I mean blaming it on what my step brother did to me is to easy to do. I am just unsure of the timeline of these events.

I don't know if this is a "disorder" or I'm accurately portraying my kid self. Which in affect damages my adult self consistently and relentlessly.

Heartfullofguilt2 wrote:I wish I could roll all of them up in one and forgive myself. I mean blaming it on what my step brother did to me is to easy to do. I am just unsure of the timeline of these events.

Give up trying to forgive yourself. If you dissect what it actually means to forgive yourself, you realise that it's a meaningless concept based on some kind of presumed duality in the brain (the self vs the person forgiving it). Don't indulge in such illusions.

When people say they have managed to forgive "themselves", I think they are mistaking it for just being at peace with what happened in the past. If that's what it really means, then I guess you can call it what you want. But I suspect there is a dualistic mentality, in all of us, that gives rise to notions such as the self being an object of a second, TRUE self. It's a popular belief, but there's no evidence for it.

In fact, there is no evidence that even a single, unitary self exists in the brain. What we experience as the self is in fact our brains channelling all our life experiences through a single lens of consciousness. We evolved to perceive the world like this because it had a survival utility.

So who are you really forgiving when you forgive "your self"? I don't want to spoil your exploration of this question, but what you may find is that there is nobody to forgive on your part. The bunch of neuro-chemical properties that caused what happened in the past have now completely changed form.

You allude to this in your next statement...

Heartfullofguilt2 wrote:I don't know if this is a "disorder" or I'm accurately portraying my kid self. Which in affect damages my adult self consistently and relentlessly.

So you identify a "kid self" and an "adult self". Since the "kid self" no longer exists, any reflection upon the "kid self's" actions is no different than you reflecting upon the actions of a different person.

For example, a stranger in the street may reveal to you something bad they did earlier today. You had no control over that event, but you can place a value judgement on the event (i.e. "good" or "bad"). It makes sense to see the "kid self" in exactly the same way.

Just because you are experiencing life through what appears to be the same window of experience as the "kid self", doesn't mean you are that self. No matter how convincing the illusion of a perpetual, unitary self moving through time and space seems, there is a more rational way to see the past in relation to who you are in this moment, and that is to treat any past selves as events from which lessons can be learned.

And as you know in your present capacity that you would never do what the "kid self" did, it's a very quick lesson to learn!

In short, don't identify with the past as if the present you lived it and chose it, because you didn't. It's not physically possible. It was a now non-existent storm of neuro-chemical reactions that caused those events. When you see the naked truth of it like this, the past simply becomes a bunch of lessons to which the present neuro-chemical storm you call "me" can react.

I wrote a reply, twice as long as yours, that started with the line:

"Hm. At the risk of blatantly ignoring the point of this post..."

Basically, and more lightly, the contents were: You don't seem to account for the fact that some people feel responsible for their actions, now and in the past, and that some feel it is right and proper to expect the same from others as well. It would not work to ask someone to not do that to themselves without changing their whole view and moral standards on others first. The question is: should they?

So, it can sound like you don't think people need to take responsibility for their past behavior - especially not for those influenced by emotions or urges - as the emotions have since waned, or the intesity that lead to acting on them is not currently at that level. It could also be said that you act like there's no such thing as free will (which I know is a real "-ism" - I have read about it in the past, so if you don't, that's fine; just a statement).

Do you have a reaction to that, or are you outraged by the inappropriateness of my response? My original post said not to be angry at me, because this post has been written by a neuro-electrochemical storm in the past, that no longer exists.

"I didn't write that! When "I" saw your post "I" was stimulated to start debating your views, ignoring the OP. Now that I expressed them, I no longer care. I'm not going to write that same reply again, not now that you've read it. I'm over that urge. Why should I be judged on those actions, I'm no longer in that chemical state."

(couldn't leave it out )

Some people would react differently to a thinking as above if there person was laden with guilt. Translate this to such a someone, looking at their present self and reflecting on their so-called "kid self" - which is no real thing, following your construct. I'm going to cut off my train of thought, because I'm heading towards writing a pretty much just as long reply as before. My point should be clear by now.

EDIT: I know, I don't care.

No matter how convincing the illusion of a perpetual, unitary self moving through time and space seems, there is a more rational way to see the past in relation to who you are in this moment, and that is to treat any past selves as events from which lessons can be learned.

That's a good line. I think in this context it'd help if he understood the things he did, and why he did. If I seem to get the urge to murder strangers, and one day, I don't know what happened, I just lose control (neuro-chemical storm) and killed someone randomly... I might feel guilty about it, and tell someone. They don't care, they say it's fine. I start forgetting about it, a month later, it happens again. In total this ends up happening 10 times. 4 years after the last kill, I start remembering the things I did, not really sure why, how, or what happened exactly. Never contacted the families, never went to prison, never been hated for it. It's not easy to look at those murders and just see them as a "lesson to be learned" and move on... Boy, this is excessive. *leaves*

-- Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:03 pm --

I left and started thinking about this. Isn't it funny I seem to exhibit a duality in that post? One part of me clearly saying this is not the place to discuss this, the other part constantly dismissing it and mocking it saying he doesn't care at all?

<I deleted more stuff here, partially because I got fed up of writing and didn't want to finish it>

-- Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:04 pm --

I left and started thinking about this. Isn't it funny I seem to exhibit a duality in that post? One part of me clearly saying this is not the place to discuss this, the other part constantly dismissing it and mocking it saying he doesn't care at all?

I do think something happened but it's possible your OCD is mentally exaggerating certain occurrences because you keep thinking about them. Memory is fallible- people can even have false ones. You won't remember anything the way it actually happened- and a theory of memory says that memory is tainted by knowlege after the fact.

I do have to say as an outsider that...your step brother's behavior seems more worrisome than yours- he's 4 years older. I know kids play with each other sometimes- I mean I masturbated since I was 8 and one time we caught my two cousins (male and female) dry humping when they were about that age..

But, something seems odd to me- I am wondering if something occurred with one of you (some sort of abuse?) and it spread throughout the household. Sometimes kids do something out of their own volition and sometimes they get introduced, do it to another kid, and that kid starts doing it thinking it is average.

I might talk to your stepbrother,but I think you shouldn't torture yourself about this.

Thanks everyone.

JPKAS, I'm sure pondering these memories since a kid definitely helped solidify them over time. The earliest memories I have of something like this, is I think my two older female cousins and I did the classic showing around age 5. Now what I done to my brother happened after what happened to me. But I'm unsure of my sister.

I don't really feel like a victim because of the huge amount of remorse. I remember him playing football as a freshman, so he was 14 and he's about four and a half years older than I. Which would make me around 9,10 maybe 11. I don't even remember resisting it. He always entered me, never I on him. But I know it happened multiple times, for sure. When I was around 12 or 13(before the wall of guilt hit me) I remember being afraid of being sexually abused by family members. It was like a real threat type of feeling. Really hate feeling like a victim because that's an easy out. But I have no idea what would make a child the age I was do those things, clearly I didn't think it was wrong and more importantly didn't think about today.

As for talking with him, I haven't seen him since he left 10 years ago(I'm 21). My mother says he has a son and daughter. My mother called up his father and told him what he done to me and to watch his grandchildren. She told him I was seeing a therapist. She did all of this without my knowledge. She even wants to press charges, but he was 14 or 15. I'd feel like the pot calling the kettle black in some ways. But My mother says what he did to me was incredibly worse than what I did once. I mean he did things to my sister as well which she remembers.

It seems hes doing astronomically better than I. There must be some way to deal with this remorse.

Heartfullofguilt2 wrote:Thanks everyone.

JPKAS, I'm sure pondering these memories since a kid definitely helped solidify them over time. The earliest memories I have of something like this, is I think my two older female cousins and I did the classic showing around age 5. Now what I done to my brother happened after what happened to me. But I'm unsure of my sister.

I don't really feel like a victim because of the huge amount of remorse. I remember him playing football as a freshman, so he was 14 and he's about four and a half years older than I. Which would make me around 9,10 maybe 11. I don't even remember resisting it. He always entered me, never I on him. But I know it happened multiple times, for sure. When I was around 12 or 13(before the wall of guilt hit me) I remember being afraid of being sexually abused by family members. It was like a real threat type of feeling. Really hate feeling like a victim because that's an easy out. But I have no idea what would make a child the age I was do those things, clearly I didn't think it was wrong and more importantly didn't think about today.

As for talking with him, I haven't seen him since he left 10 years ago(I'm 21). My mother says he has a son and daughter. My mother called up his father and told him what he done to me and to watch his grandchildren. She told him I was seeing a therapist. She did all of this without my knowledge. She even wants to press charges, but he was 14 or 15. I'd feel like the pot calling the kettle black in some ways. But My mother says what he did to me was incredibly worse than what I did once. I mean he did things to my sister as well which she remembers.

It seems hes doing astronomically better than I. There must be some way to deal with this remorse.

He's doing better than you because I bet he doesn't have the same regret as you do. 14 years old is rather old to be doing that to a younger sibling. :/

I think you were taken advantage of and abused by your stepbrother- and your reaction is yours. You don't have to be angry at him. But I do think that happening to you as a younger child influenced your thinking into thinking it was okay (at that time) I can't say if something happened to him to where he thought it was okay or not, but I think your behavior afterwards is a direct result .He was 14, in high school- and he should not have done what he did. If you are that young and someone older continuously keeps doing something to you it might get in your own head that it's alright. I think your sister isn't angry with you because it is your stepbrother that was the root of it - and the one that did the extensive damage...she probably feels you were just as much of a victim as her.

Also if he did this over and over repeatedly without much guilt I would be wary of him too. He at least needs to go to therapy for it- I am not saying he still has inclinations,but it's not something that resolves itself. Most 14 year olds aren't attracted to and don't continuously abuse their younger siblings.

I think it's important for you to come to terms with this. That you were a child, and you reacted to what an older child did to you. Maybe you knew it was wrong I don't know. What really matters is how you are going to go about this now. You feel bad about it. You are not an evil person. You've tried to amend your childhood mistakes. From this point forward just take a deep breath and try to do good .

I think you're just turning all the blame to yourself..

I think you can move past this, and you have taken strong steps to doing so . That's good. I would see someone about this . Do what you need to do to get in a good place. Putting yourself through more misery is not going to help.