crippling guilt from realising I raped someone (TW)

Hi all, trigger warning obviously.

Around two years ago, I met a girl. We hit it off on Facebook, and after hanging out with other company a few times we decided to go out drinking one-on-one. I thought she was interested in me sexually, and maybe she was, but told me early on that it'd be a bad idea to sleep together due to the current status of her relationship with a guy who she went to great lengths to describe as a physically abusive jerk.

As we drank more and more, she started acting sexually towards me, and I was too much of a horny idiot to renege it. She would often act sexually, then pull back and I'd goad her into acting sexual again. We eventually ended up back at my place and had sex. I told her I didn't want to 'force her into anything', and she did make the first move once she was at my place (launching herself at me and kissing), but I'd already dropped the ball here since she in hindsight she was clearly too drunk to properly consent.

The next day she stayed at mine since she was too hungover to leave, and I had sex with her a few more times, thinking it was consensual since she didn't say no, and reacted in pleasure to my advances, and we had normal-seeming conversation in-between the sexual encounters. I often asked her if it was okay for me to cross certain boundaries, like cuddling with her, etc.

Three hours after she leaves, I get a stream of abusive messages from her boyfriend saying I'd raped her, and then she blocked me on Facebook. Guy reveals her extensive history of being raped and sexually assaulted (from her early teens onwards), of which I only knew a little of, and I realise to my horror that she probably wasn't saying no due to being intensely triggered by the situation I put her in, or something along those lines.

The first few months I tried to convince myself it was just the abusive boyfriend pressuring her into breaking off contact with me, and tried contacting her a few times to no avail (i.e. harassment), but deep down I knew that theory was BS, and as our encounter replayed over and over in my mind, I picked up on all the things I had ignored, all the signals that it wasn't consensual, that I was manipulating her into sex, that I was now officially a rapist and basically should be in jail. This was quite a shock to the system, as I had always considered myself a supporter of feminist causes, but felt this event revealed my true nature as a creep. It triggered in me a whole re-evaluation of how I'd related to women over my young adult/adult life and I realised it was a culmination of unacknowledged creepy behaviour.

Over the past two years, a day hasn't gone by where I haven't thought about the evil I committed, how much of a fraud I am due to my continued association with feminist friends who consider me a safe person to be around, anxiety over possibly being outed as a rapist and what I'd do if that was to come to pass, what I could've done differently, the various signals/red flags I overlooked to convince myself what I was doing was consensual, regret over our lost friendship. I also can't stop looking at her Facebook account, especially as she recently started making public Facebook posts. She's no longer Facebook friends with the boyfriend (signalling they probably broke up) and she still hasn't contacted me, further confirming that I'm blocked because I raped her rather than her boyfriend being coercive.

There's also a weird meta-guilt going on, in which I feel guilty for feeling guilty, for feeling traumatised over giving someone else trauma, etc. I feel I don't deserve psychological help, taking up mental health professionals valuable time helping an abuser get over their rapist guilt instead of helping rape victims get over their trauma, and so on. I also do not feel comfortable saying to a stranger's face that I need to get treatment for guilt over being a rapist, it scares me.

None of my close friends, or my girlfriend (who I am in a nominally open relationship with, but I have not slept around much since the incident), think I raped her, but this isn't much of a consolation as I know they only say that because they weren't there when I did it and don't wanna admit their friend/lover is a rapist. I also notice a lot of stock standard rape culture statements in how they rationalise it i.e. 'she's just crazy', 'she just had sex and regretted it', etc.

I think I do have some form of PTSD from this whole affair since I do experience 'triggers', whenever I hear about rape in any context, the whole incident replays in my head, all the same self-flagellating thoughts repeat themselves, my heart rate increases, I feel like I can't breathe, I start obsessively trawling through her Facebook for any new info about her life (even though I'm never gonna do anything about that info), etc. I think posting this thread is because I'm getting triggered, even. Then I feel ridiculous for labelling it PTSD due to the reasons mentioned above.

How do I get over this? I just want to move on. Either way I'm adamant never to do something like that again, but I just cannot find it in me to forgive myself for what I did, I don't feel I deserve to be happy, even though I want to be happy.

Sounds very similar to what I have experienced. I am also a rapist. I had a relationship with a 16-year-old when I was a few years older than her, which began online. Because I come from a place where 16 is the age of consent, I didn't think much about the fact that it wasn't in her state, until a couple of years afterwards, when I fully internalized the fact that because she was underage she couldn't consent to sex and I had raped her. Some of our interactions were enthusiastic, but towards the end of the relationship in one hideous incident that I will regret as long as I live, she said she was just in the mood for spooning and being held and I ended up touching her in a violatory way without her verbal consent. Like you, because she didn't say 'NO' I convinced myself for some months that my behaviour was acceptable. Then I realized that consent isn't the absence of a no, it must always be affirmative and engaged. Anything less, I am afraid, is rape and I would agree from what you have described that you are a rapist - as am I.

Personally, I think the fact that you recognise the fact and deplore your behaviour shows that you are possessed of some degree of humanity, self-reflection and compassion. I have several female friends who were raped by their ex-partners who all seem to manage to live with the entitled delusion that they are not rapists and did nothing wrong. Quite a lot of sexual assault went on at my sixth form, with some guys grabbing girls' breasts without consent, and I do not think they they recognise themselves as sex criminals.

I don't really think your focus should be on forgiving yourself. I committed my crime six years ago, so I guess I might be in a different place to you. I have accepted that I will never forgive myself and that every day until my death I will reflect upon my behaviour and ensure that I never, never, never repeat it. It's not always a fun life and sometimes I am deeply unhappy, but it is a life and the most important thing is that I won't hurt anyone in such an evil way again. My or your own happiness isn't really that important in comparison TBH.

That said, you are a human being. You have feelings and emotions like the rest of us. You aren't a monster because monsters don't really exist. People like to say that rapists aren't human and that one cannot be both, but - for good or for bad - humans aren't in the position to make that call about other humans. You are a human being who did a really #######5, make even evil, thing. It was certainly selfish and entitled and an example of rape culture playing out in a sad, horrible way. You can learn and move on from this. You are not merely an embodiment of your worst ever action.

Dedicate the rest of your life to teaching others about good consent. I don't mean, become a great spokesperson or talk over anyone else. I think, as an abuser, you have to accept that your life is irrevocably different (you can't go home again, so to speak) and that this means that some people will choose not to like or forgive you and there are certain spaces where you probably shouldn't impose yourself. Read about Hugo Schwyzer and do the opposite to him!! Read more feminist and women writers. Keep quiet in those spaces and don't talk over people. But help out when you can.

I have helped out with a charity called 'Sexpression', teaching sex education to high school kids. Making sure they know about informed consent and the age of consent and what is acceptable and what is not. If you live in Britain, perhaps you could do the same. If you don't feel comfortable and feel it would be hypocritical volunteering at a rapist crisis centre (which is how I feel about myself) then volunteer helping out at an animal shelter or an old person's home. Give back to society. It is a good thing to do and will help you live with yourself.

As for your victim, it might be worth sending a single message online - if you have yet to do so - owning your behaviour and naming it as rape and saying that you are willing to take accountability, including legal accountability. Put the ball in her court and leave it there, where it belongs. Don't try to explain why you did what you did or the reasons or whatsoever justify yourself, however tempting that might be. Own up. After summoning up the courage, I did this with my victim and she said that she felt that I had pushed her boundaries and that she had been young, but she didn't see what legal action to take and she felt I no longer owed her anything and that she was over the relationship. A couple of years later I emailed again to ask if her feelings had changed and if she wanted to take the matter to court, but to no reply. I have never contacted her since and TBH I wish I hadn't sent the second email. It was more about me than her.

So, if you have yet to do so, send off a single email saying, 'This will be a triggering email but I am writing to own the fact that I raped you. It was a hideous, unacceptable thing to do. If you wish to report this to the police, I will stand by the fact and enter a guilty plea. If you do not wish to respond, I will respect that and never contact you again' or something to that effect.

You might find these resources useful:
http://www.phillyspissed.net/taxonomy/term/3

Also, if you can find counselling or therapy in your area for people who have committed abuse, I'd totally advice you to seek it out! It might help you feel more like a person again and would be part of a process of accountability.

Finally, it's worth remembering that change and accountability and repentance (I don't really believe in 'redemption' - it's too Christian a notion for me, personally) are on-going and never-ending processes. There will never be a point at which you can say 'I have never abused' or 'I have never raped' but there will be a point where you can say 'When I was younger I abused / raped but decades down the line I have devoted hundreds and hundreds of hours to making sure it doesn't happen to other people. It's not much, but it's something.' Maybe then you (and I) can die, not with smiles on our faces exactly, but with some degree of peace.

P.S. Leave her FB alone. It's not right for you to be checking up on her or seeing how she is doing. I can totally understand the temptation, but please resist it.

P.P.S. You can't really control what your friends and family think about you. The best you can do is tell them honestly what you did and then leave them to make their own decisions about whether they wish to continue knowing you. I don't think my own partner sees me as a rapist (perhaps because arguably her previous ex was more explicitly and repeatedly abusive) but I don't try to challenge her on the fact or argue with her about it. I used to. Lots. But I don't do it any more. I really like her and think that I'm generally a force for good in her life. She really likes me and that is her decision to make since it has been made with informed knowledge about my past behaviour.

hiya..

do you mind giving some more details here for me please..?

I picked up on all the things I had ignored, all the signals that it wasn't consensual, that I was manipulating her into sex

what signals did you ignore/miss..?

How do you think that you manipulated her..?

She would often act sexually, then pull back and I'd goad her into acting sexual again

^expand on this for me.. how did you goad her into acting sexually again.. ?

feel I don't deserve psychological help, taking up mental health professionals valuable time helping an abuser get over their rapist guilt instead of helping rape victims get over their trauma, and so on. I also do not feel comfortable saying to a stranger's face that I need to get treatment for guilt over being a rapist, it scares me.

^ i think that any mental health professional would think that you are worth their time.. perhaps printing out your post from here (or putting it onto a word doc and printing), would be a good starting point for you..
I can't see any mental health professional turning you away.. seriously. They'll see you as someone who is worthwhile to work with. They genuinely want someone who is able to reflect and consider their own behaviour and motivations..

If that is what constitutes rape, then I would have been 'raped' by nearly every man Ive ever slept with. I know there is a grey area but come on, society is so obsessed with this kind of stuff. How many times has a girl played hard to get, or said no in a teasing way, and the guy simply tries harder to persuade them? Ex boyfriends have often wanted to have sex when I didn't want to, I say no I couldnt be bothered and they start feeling you up and saying aww please until you just give in to shut them up. Calling yourself a rapist (with connotations of a violent offender who forces himself on someone) is not helping anybody. Sounds like you were just being a bit of a horny man at times. Im not saying it's right, but for instance...every time I go out to a club, men slap my butt, sometimes grope, try very hard for me to have sex or even grab me. If I reported every single one of them for sexual assault there would be no men left to carry on the species. There is a line, and it is a grey area. When someone says no that should be respected, and it often isn't. But let's not join the crowds of people screaming rape at every given opportunity and making things harder for actual victims.

elfie24 wrote:If that is what constitutes rape, then I would have been 'raped' by nearly every man Ive ever slept with. I know there is a grey area but come on, society is so obsessed with this kind of stuff. How many times has a girl played hard to get, or said no in a teasing way, and the guy simply tries harder to persuade them? Ex boyfriends have often wanted to have sex when I didn't want to, I say no I couldnt be bothered and they start feeling you up and saying aww please until you just give in to shut them up. Calling yourself a rapist (with connotations of a violent offender who forces himself on someone) is not helping anybody. Sounds like you were just being a bit of a horny man at times. Im not saying it's right, but for instance...every time I go out to a club, men slap my butt, sometimes grope, try very hard for me to have sex or even grab me. If I reported every single one of them for sexual assault there would be no men left to carry on the species. There is a line, and it is a grey area. When someone says no that should be respected, and it often isn't. But let's not join the crowds of people screaming rape at every given opportunity and making things harder for actual victims.

But the girl in this case is self-identifying as a victim of rape, it seems. She was drunk and seemingly didn't give clear verbal consent every time. It doesn't seem wrong of her to define this experience of rape. It wouldn't necessarily stand up in court. But that's not what really matters. What matters is the morality of it, surely.

Like, I get what you're saying. Personally, I think it would be totally fair for you to say that ex-partners who started feeling you up after you had said 'no' were assaulting you. I mean, once you express any kind of 'no', whether it's, 'I'd just prefer to sleep' or 'I'm not really in the mood' then a line has been drawn. Now, obviously it's totally up to you as to how you want to frame those experiences and whether you'd want to talk to the guys about them or take them to court etc. etc. The same goes for being groped in a club. Technically I think in most places that would court as sexual assault... certainly, harassment at best. But I also know that when I've been groped (nipples pinched and bottom grabbed - that kind of thing), it was unpleasant, but not deeply traumatic and I haven't sought to press charges.

But it does rest with the victim. In this case, the victim had already survived a lot of abuse, by the sounds of it. It's understandable that she needed a lover who would be very careful around boundaries. Sadly, it sounds like the OP crossed those. I don't think he's a monster or evil or completely unable to change etc. etc. But, at the same time, I really don't think it would be fair to the victim to say that she wasn't an 'actual' victim of rape since rape doesn't always look like someone holding someone down or molesting someone who I unconscious through inebriation... sometimes it looks like a guy cluelessly ignoring the non-verbal signals a partner is trying to give out or a 19-year-old sleeping with someone a few months under age.

Hi sprock, your post was really good, it's great to hear some non-judgmental advice from another remorseful rapist. It really means a lot to read a post from that perspective. I've considered volunteering, but I've never put any effort into it due to the crippling guilt-induced depression and work. Also I guess my focus on 'redemption' is a hangover of my religious upbringing rather than being particularly helpful.

re: the guilty plea, I'm not sure. If I was single, I'd probably have the courage to go through with something like that. But it would not affect just me, my partner has invested a lot in our relationship since we met years ago and I'm kind of worried how she'd cope with me being sent to jail. And then in acknowledging that I feel that way, I feel guilty about my unwillingness to take legal responsibility. If she ever did press charges, I'd plead guilty, but I don't really want to actively encourage that happening.

re: other posters, I'm not interested in providing a play-by-play of every single unacknowledged moment in my memory that confirms it was rape. There's a lot of material that I could have included here to support my claim, but that kind of microdetail puts me in a really dark and unhealthy mental place, and would make this topic a lot less anonymous. Just believe me when I say it was rape, I'm far beyond the point of denying it (I tried!) and I feel shifting the topic to that kind of question is an expression of rape culture.

I guess the next step is probably to go to a therapist.

Yeah... I just one just knows in one's heart when one crossed that moral line, sadly. Like, you can think and see 'yeah - that person wasn't comfortable or, that person wasn't in a state to actively consent'. It's hard to explain, though I imagine that victims know how it is more than anyone. It's like the attempted rape scene in the sitcom Louie recently. I was really shocked by how many people tried to argue it wasn't an attempted rape... but, apart from the fact that Pamela clearly says 'no' and Louie actually restrains her with physical force (and there didn't need to be that much)... it just feels wrong. Coerced. Not how sex (true, consented sex) feels.

I'm really glad my post was whatsoever helpful. I think it's possible to be serious and sobering and non-minimizing without leaping into othering language and about how one might as well be dead. I mean, you are alive and I personally think you deserve to be alive (or, rather, I don't believe it's a matter of 'deserving' since I don't believe in the death penalty and you wouldn't be given it anyway, of course).

I totally respect that you don't want to push for prosecution because you're worried about how that would affect your girlfriend. I think it's best to leave the matter then and if it happens, it happens, and you can plead guilty. I think the main thing is to not try to control the narrative and to totally respect the fact that the survivor doesn't want to get in contact with you.

I think therapy is a really good idea. Also, while you may feel like you don't deserve to be volunteering... I'm sure the homeless people in a shelter or the elderly people in a home will just be appreciative that you are helping out. It doesn't need to be a grand gesture. But I think it's good to focus on putting back into society, especially if you don't ever go to prison. Consider it community service, maybe.

I do think there is still a lot of confusion around the issue of rape. Even though a lot of people talk about rape meaning rape, a surprising number don't seem to have internalised precisely what rape is, it seems. Television is easier to talk about because it is just made-up fiction, but I think it is striking how many people don't think of Don Draper or Walter White or even Adam from Girls as rapists even after very non-ambiguous rape scenes. There is, sadly, a lot of cognitive dissonance, but I think society's catching up.

I'm personally glad you had the 'a-ha' moment and didn't spent the rest of your life as an entitled guy potentially hurting more women without ever self-identifying as a rapist or abuser. I know several men who would fit into that category. Anyone who has abused might be said to be wretched... but I think there's something especially awful about these men who insist they are nice guys who would murder rapists, while witlessly being rapists themselves. Since what you have done can't be undone, it's totally better that you realise what you did, rather than kid yourself into denial.

I'm not a Christian so I'm not going to say that maybe it's saved your soul or anything like that. Personally, I don't believe anyone is deserving of infinite Hell (and I think people who say otherwise have not really considered the fully terrifying concept of eternity). However, I respect the idea of Buddhist Hells... which are temporary states the sinner passes through on the journey to a new life. There is suffering and it can take a very, very long time. But essentially existence is cyclical. Even in the wake of really awful things, time heals. Everyone will eventually rejoin the soil where we'll help bring new life to plants and animals and other humans. All is not lost. It's not going to be easy, but I think more is to be gained by you staying alive.

I think truly remorseful people are often unreliable witnesses to their own crimes.

By that I mean, they will always be the harshest judges of their actions, perhaps even more so than their victims in many cases. Yes, you may know for certain that what you did crossed a line, and we ought to believe your sincerity on that, but we don't know exactly how much the alleged victim in all this was really harmed. That matters. In fact, it matters far more than the perception of the crime itself, because if that woman can go on with her life and not think another thought about what happened that night (except fleetingly positive, light hearted thoughts of course), then you are worrying about nothing.

If, however, you can never find out what this woman really thinks of what happened, then you have to let it go. Anything else is madness. Incessant, self-torturing thoughts about past events aren't going to change them, nor are they going to tell you how much harm you actually did, so take your lessons from the past and start focusing more on the present moment.

Any remorse you do carry with you is supposed to be released, as energy, in the form of positive action, good deeds etc. It is not supposed to be swilled around in your mind or, worse, pushed into your unconscious mind.

I hope you soon realise how small a part of you this event was. Regardless of what happened, it does not define who you are. It is something you did because of circumstances, brain wiring, alcohol etc. There's a profound difference.

re: other posters, I'm not interested in providing a play-by-play of every single unacknowledged moment in my memory that confirms it was rape. There's a lot of material that I could have included here to support my claim, but that kind of microdetail puts me in a really dark and unhealthy mental place, and would make this topic a lot less anonymous. Just believe me when I say it was rape, I'm far beyond the point of denying it (I tried!) and I feel shifting the topic to that kind of question is an expression of rape culture.

^ i completely respect your decision not to provide the extra details.. i'll explain why i asked though and leave it up to you whether you choose to consider my thoughts though.

From your original post, i wasn't able to decide whether you crossed the line or not.. so i asked for more details so that i can answer either ''yes you did rape her'' - or ''no you didn't''

At the time of my original answer, i was more in the ''no, you didn't'' group but wanted to clarify a few things.. anonymity is all important here though so no.. please don't provide any details that you think could identify yourself.
If you had been sober while she was drunk then my answer would have been more in the ''yes, you did'' group..


I do agree that therapy would be a really good idea for you though and i'm pleased to see that you'll go along.


so; TL/DR.. i currently rest in the ''i can't categorise this'' group.

My apologies, I missed the part where she identified as being raped. I was so tired last night hen I read this and got the general impression that it was nothing more than a man being a bit over-persuasive with a girl who did in fact want to have sex with him anyway. Our culture is one that is sex obsessed, and I often feel that the hysteria around the issue causes more harm than good, but I do agree that if someone feels violated, then that is always real and valid.
I agree totally with the last post, all that really matters is the level of harm caused. And that is how you should respond to this. The law, while important to some degree, is often pointless and misguided. I think the OP would do best to accept what happened, do NOT identify as a 'monster' because he isn't one, and live in the present. Learn from ones mistakes and move on. If anything happens in terms of prosecution in the future, deal with that if and when it happens (although I don't think it will). Best of luck