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"We all make mistakes"

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"We all make mistakes"

Postby epiphany55 » Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:37 pm

I was in the pub with a friend the other night and we got talking about regret (I may have pushed the conversation in that direction!). My friend is a very compassionate person and he believes that we all make mistakes at some point and regret is a waste of time.

But I couldn't help but think he was talking about a particular type of mistake. The word mistake implies more accident than intention. Can we really apply the same sentiment to "mistakes" that, at the time, were fully intended and had (or at least potentially had) much graver consequences?

For example, could we reassure a murderer that "we all make mistakes", conflating regret of the most heinous actions with mistakes such as not spending enough time with a loved one, the intention of which is not as direct?

In the second example, the phrase "we all make mistakes" seems appropriate (there are probably better examples). But with more extreme forms of hurt, can we really look at them in the same way? Some things are so obviously wrong that we didn't need to make the mistake to learn from it. We already knew it was wrong and the real lesson was in betraying our moral integrity. This is (as you can probably tell from the loaded nature of this post) my personal issue.

At what point does the word mistake become too soft a word to describe something we regret? Or is it simply that everything we regret can be considered part of the same pile of mistakes that we must leave firmly in the past?
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Re: "We all make mistakes"

Postby Ashlar » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:30 pm

"We all make mistakes" and "Have no regrets" are both somewhat empty colloquialisms. They can be the right advice for certain points in time, but they are rather ephemeral. I think it's still healthy to have some regrets, and accept them and take them with us. It's not good to be ruled by your regrets. There's also reasons to hold people responsible and not just discount every mistake simply because of the statistical guarantee that everyone will eventually err. As with most similar phrases, it's impactful and short, but the reality is always more layered and complex.
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Re: "We all make mistakes"

Postby Dorcus » Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:07 pm

Hi there
We all have a conscience , its a matter of do we listen to it or not . We can train it to work for our benefit. Bells ring if we ignore our conscience giving us an opportunity to put matters straight. That's the way we learn. Regrets keep us in the past and are of no benefit to us at all. However what one person calls a mistake another might call a crime or disgusting , or even say it was done on purpose. We all have our own ideas as to what constitutes a mistake.
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Re: "We all make mistakes"

Postby Caged In » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:35 am

We make mistakes because we don't know any better.

We are taught, rightfully so, to know that murder is wrong at an early age. But what of stealing, sex, harm, and cruelty? Too much gray. If you run over the speed limit, get a ticket, you don't get off by saying "My mistake, officer!" You get a ticket, and you learn from your mistake.

Yes, we all make mistakes, and we make them because we are either ignorant or stupid. No matter who we are though, we learn from our mistakes. Even if that means not getting caught.
A man is but the product of his thoughts.
What he thinks, he becomes. -Mahatma Gandhi
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Re: "We all make mistakes"

Postby sprock » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:01 pm

Personally, I agree with this blogger on the phrase:

Translation: “I made a mistake thinking I wouldn’t be caught doing something that I knew was wrong, but did anyway.”

Look. Getting on the wrong train because you were confused about the schedule is a mistake. Grabbing someone else’s umbrella instead of yours when leaving in a hurry is a mistake. Failing to anticipate the full extent of the fallout from your actions may be a mistake. A mistake is something that happens by inadvertence, which is the opposite of intent. An intentional, deliberate course of conduct that involves planning and dissimulation is not a mistake — it cannot be. For the wrongdoer to call it that merely betrays his utter lack of remorse. It is a crude, lazy, perfunctory exercise in rationalization, an insult to the intelligence of anyone who has more than two or three little grey cells firing away somewhere. And thus, no apology, no atonement has any worth whatsoever as long as the word “mistake” appears in any part of it.

This is not meant to come across as impossibly judgmental. Everyone, yours truly included, has at one time or another done things that range from morally questionable to downright despicable — and it is possible to make up for them, move on, be a better person and be forgiven. But, I am a big fan of calling things by their proper names. And “mistake” isn’t a proper name to describe the actions of someone who knows exactly what he or she is doing.


Likewise;

“The most important thing is to forgive yourself/love yourself/realize you are special.”

Translation: “Nothing in this world is as important as feeling good about yourself. Not fairness. Not common sense. Not moral obligation. Nothing. Let everything and everyone else go to hell as a result of your actions, and it’s all good, as long as you think you are the specialest thing in the universe since the invention of ice-cream.”

Think of an awful thing you’ve done, something that did serious damage to another person. Search your memory; I’ll wait. Okay, you got one? Good. Now let me take a wild guess here: you thought of something bad you once did, and IMMEDIATELY your mind went into full-rationalization mode. You automatically started thinking about how you really shouldn’t feel guilty for what you’ve done, because, take your pick:

“It was only that one time, and it’s not really who I am.”
“I was only fifteen.”
“I was confused.”
“It was a difficult time in my life.”
“Well, I didn’t intend to hurt anyone, and collateral damage doesn’t count.”
“All my friends did it.”
“The person I hurt wasn’t a saint.”
“I fell in with a bad crowd.”
“It’s not emotionally healthy to blame myself, so I don’t. (My health emotional comfort is the most important thing in the world.)”

Perhaps I’m wrong about you, O Individual Reader; perhaps you are not like that. But that would make you exceptional. For most people, being selfish is easy and natural, especially in a culture that prioritizes loving oneself, forgiving oneself, self-aggrandizing and shielding oneself from deserved blame over making things right. To listen to “experts” and spiritual “gurus”, there is an epidemic of low self-esteem, with people wallowing needlessly in guilt. From what I see, the opposite is true — and a person’s willingness to “forgive himself” seems to be directly proportional to his willingness to be terrible to others. It’s narcissism, pure and simple. And so, it’s not important to forgive oneself — or it shouldn’t be. It shouldn’t be among your priorities to never think about things that make you feel bad. What IS most important is earning the forgiveness of the people you’ve hurt and striving each and every day to be a better person — better to others, that is, not yourself. Which is really difficult if you are overly focused on feeling good about yourself.


http://thisruthlessworld.wordpress.com/2013/10/03/984/

I suspect Epiphany / you, will disagree with this though!
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Re: "We all make mistakes"

Postby epiphany55 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:22 am

No Sprock, I am actually blown away by what you have found there. I have searched high and low for this kind of wisdom and you have found it for me. Thank you.
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Re: "We all make mistakes"

Postby sprock » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:51 am

Oh! Well, I'm glad you liked it! :oops: :)

Personally, I do think that forgiving oneself too easily or making excuses can allow for a repetition of behaviour. Whereas, when it is earnestly regretted without any caveats, then some kind of change can be made. I definitely agree with:

"And so, it’s not important to forgive oneself — or it shouldn’t be. It shouldn’t be among your priorities to never think about things that make you feel bad. What IS most important is earning the forgiveness of the people you’ve hurt and striving each and every day to be a better person — better to others, that is, not yourself."
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Re: "We all make mistakes"

Postby epiphany55 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:06 pm

Yes there is a lot of truth in that. Besides, has anyone actually succeeded in truly forgiving themselves? Is this even possible? To forgive oneself implies a duality of some sort...

Who is the "I" and who is "myself"?

There is not only no need to forgive yourself, it's also impossible! It's not your place to forgive yourself, congratulate yourself, hate yourself, love yourself or "pat yourself on the back".

We need to get rid of this dualistic thinking IMO.
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Re: "We all make mistakes"

Postby sprock » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:04 am

Some very perceptive ideas! I must meditate more as I think more non-dualistic thinking and non-conceptual thinking would do me a lot of good. As you probably have already realised from my writing, I very much think in terms of hard-and-fixed concepts and definitions, which is sometimes confusing, frustrating and even upsetting when a word is used so variable (so, 'child' means under-18 in law, though for 15-17 year-olds this is a fairly recent change from the term 'minor', at least in EU law; child in a medical sense means below 14, I think; in terms of psychological and sociological studies into child abuse, sometimes definitions require that the age difference between victim and abuser is larger than 5 years, but sometimes they don't; when you ask someone to imagine a 'child' they likely image a person of around 6-13 years of age, rather than a baby, toddler or older teenager (this is just a hunch, though); so-called 'young adult's fiction' is really fiction for older children and teens; despite their child-status in law, 16 and 17-year-olds are often - grossly unfairly in my view - tried as adults and sentenced accordingly).

Anyway, I wish I could 'think' non-verbally... though sometimes I'm not even sure if that is possible, though I guess I don't always have to vocalise my memories and I can understand a film without words and without necessarily translating everything I see into words. Hmm.
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Re: "We all make mistakes"

Postby epiphany55 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:03 pm

sprock wrote:Anyway, I wish I could 'think' non-verbally... though sometimes I'm not even sure if that is possible, though I guess I don't always have to vocalise my memories and I can understand a film without words and without necessarily translating everything I see into words. Hmm.


I just re-read your post and what you said there is so crucial. From what I've experienced, if you want to be more present (and dwell less on the past) you need to stop labelling everything you see or think about. Like you say, think non-verbally - don't justify or condemn anything, lose the narration, the story, just accept the thought as it is. It loses a lot of its power (and in reality it has no power because, well, it's in the past).

Obviously you want to keep your judgements alive when making practical decisions, but there is no need to judge negative thought patterns as anything more than thoughts or objects, especially since you've already been pushed to a "higher plane" of consciousness by your past. The thoughts have done their work and are now just baggage waiting to be let go.

^ In theory. In practice it's something we have to... practice.
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