Am I just making excuses? + a message to everyone here

First, the message.

Every person in the world has "undesirable" and "deviant" thoughts, impulses, urges and ideas in their mind, like pollution and flotsam in an ocean. However, having dark and disturbing thoughts in your head doesn't make you evil or a monster; it just comes with having a brain. And sometimes you're not even aware of the stuff in your brain. But just because you have something floating in your brain, it doesn't mean it's important; you gotta figure out for yourself what's good brain stuff and what's bad. As long as you deal with your flotsam safely and don't allow it to pollute anyone else (i.e. allow your dark thoughts to lead to dark actions that hurt other people) then you're not a sick irredeemable monster for having it, and it's definitely not all that there is in your mind, and you are far more than just your shadows. The ocean is full of all kinds of wonderful stuff. As long as you know what's flotsam and what's coral, everything's allright. (apologies about the extended metaphor, I just thought it'd fit lol)

Now for my grievances, because Heaven knows just can't seem to be able to take my own advice.

In the past, I've done some pretty skeevy stuff due to not being able to properly interpret my thoughts and desires. The pervy, violent, all-around bad thoughts were just there, after a fashion, and I didn't question them enough. Nowadays, however, I consider them to be unwanted, intrusive, OCD-ish brain pollution that I must learn to deal with privately and productively. I am not attempting to make excuses; I realize my actions cannot be justified. Nonetheless, I thought I'd put this out there in the hope of maybe gaining reassurance. Or being called out, I really don't know which is more appropriate.

Anyway. (I am on the autism spectrum, btw. again, not making excuses, just thought I'd put that there as context)

- Once, when I was younger and a stupid teen, I took our pet guinea pig, picked him up and dragged his crotch on my leg. I don't know why, but I know it was perverted harassment.
- My little brother and I used to fight rather violently, which I feel rotten about to this day. We've stopped now, but it still lingers.
- In the past, I looked up and masturbated to questionable erotica featuring animals and depictions of underage sexual conduct, as well as incest. (Not that this is a mitigating factor, but I never did this to genuine child pornography, so no children were actually exploited.) I'd just do it occasionally, feeling bad about it afterwards but still doing it. Eventually, however, I realized that such things are not what I want and managed to put a stop to this habit, masturbating mostly to more morally savoury erotica.
- I have also found myself occasionally imagining perverted things and looking at the bodies of animals and children in ways I don't want to. I recognize this as a form of OCD (that was also probably behind the erotica masturbation thing), as I have absolutely no sexual interest in either animals or children. I find these perverted thoughts to be ego-dystonic, extraneous and intrusive and I have NO DESIRE OR WANT to act on them. I have come to grudgingly accept that such "mental hiccups" exist in my brain, and am doing my best to simply let the thoughts transition into something more pleasing and acceptable.
- However, I worry that the aforementioned masturbation means that I did act on these twisted thoughts and will "really" do so in the future. I am afraid of myself and loathe myself because I have done it, and I feel like I am not allowed to enjoy anything or even deserve to be treated as a real human.


I've been trying to focus on the positive, the good about myself and the future I can inflluence instead of the past I can't. However, I feel as if I can't be a good person anymore, ever again, because I'm "defiled". What do you guys think?

I read elsewhere today that "one part of your life does not define you as a person." And I think that applies here too. You aren't defiled. You are still a real human and still deserve to be treated with respect. Which means self-respect too. You're learning about your sexuality and desires and that's an ongoing process throughout life for most of us. As you find areas that you aren't comfortable with, morally or mentally, you are also finding ways through or around those areas. And that all seems constructive and positive to me.

If you were getting stuck in any of these negative patterns, then that would be the problem. But you're doing what you need to do with this type of thinking. That's enough. Don't beat yourself up over this stuff. You're already a different person now, because you've had chances to reflect on your actions and make changes. That's an ongoing process, and it takes time. But in my view, you are absolutely right in focusing on the present, with a view to being more of the person you want to be in the future. The past is history. If you learn from it, you don't need to repeat it.

I think that the problem is that even though I have almost solidly managed to figure out which thoughts and ideas are just obsessive-compulsive flotsam and seaweed to be pushed aside and which are stuff I'm OK with (of course, I can't adamantly define that ever because everything depends on context), the obsessive-compulsive ideas just feel so real! Like, I see a child and my eyes start focusing on the "bad areas", and despite the fact that I know that my feelings at staring at these areas are more like "no, why am I staring at this, this is just an obsessive-compulsive tic, I don't really want anything sexual with kids, this is only an insistent idea" and when I look away or have some other idea in my head I feel better and more real and I remember that I don't want that sort of thing. And I know that these perverted things are just brain vomit and not what I want, but I can't really be 100% sure ever, because they feel so real. Another factor that raises my anxiety is that lots of different thoughts can incite physical responses in the same areas of the body! I have kinda figured out that "okay, this is flotsam, so linked with this idea this physical response denotes anxiety and uncomfortableness, but with this more pleasing idea it's happiness and relaxation and comfort" but I still feel like I'm just trying too hard to convince mmyself that I'm not a sicko freak potential pedophile/zoophile/whatever other perverted thing. When I remember that these pervy ideas are just flotsamI feel relief, but then my brain just says "this is still in your brain, and can you really be sure you don't enjoy this? I think you're just lying to yourself and everyone else you sick ###$ you shouldn't even be alive you're just the same as those child molesters and rapists you should die so you'll never harm everyone like that even though your entire existence mmeans you'll do something like that"

I guess what I'm pondering is: what's the difference between ideas that are important and ideas that cause anxiety? Is the border between OCD thoughts and ideas and ideas you feel comfortable in just something you assign? If so, I'm scared because I didn't question the compulsion to look up that kind of porn and getting off to it, so who's to say that someday in the future, I might be compelled to molest someone and not even question it? I'm sorry, I know I'm neandering on the same issue over and over and being annoying and bothersome about it, but it is something that haunts my existence all the time.

EDIT: I apologize for the possible typos, I composed this reply at midnight.

EDIT 2: Just thought I'd add some thoughts here.

Desires are different from OCD thoughts, right? I mean, a desire is something you really want, something you know would make you happy, It's different from the idea of wanting something, right? For example, the idea of wanting to eat garbage, the thought of imagining oneself eating garbage, is different from actually wanting to eat it right? I think so at least, but does this sound like me just being a sicko with sick wants? Because the pervy ideas are definitely not things I want. I know that, but how can I really know that?

You ask some excellent questions. And most of them don't have answers that I can think of. But, I'm also wary of trying to answer. Because if this is an internally-driven process [which is how you describe it] then nothing I can say will persuade. And even attempting to do so is legitimising thoughts which are simply brain vomit. [I LOVE that term!] Which I don't want to do.

You could perhaps read this thread- obsessive-compulsive/topic103176.html which may have some useful ideas. Or at least reinforce the approaches you're already taking.

Hmm... maybe I could compile a reference list of the brain vomit thoughts? Although I still can't help but feel I'm not even allowed to think of these things as brain vomit, that it means I'm trying to escape responsibility for my thoughts going on in my brain like a coward. I'm also afraid that labeling some response actions to the "brain vomit" as "obsessive-compulsive" means that I'm trying to evade responsibility for my actions, and because of the whole "genital feelings aren't sexual and don't reflect on sexual desires" thing that I have, I can't help but think that I'm some kind of freak who's trying to make excuses for his freakiness.

Is it OK if I give an example of some of this distinction? Just to provide context. They are rather disturbing, though, so I won't dump them on you or anything.

I don't think context, or distinction helps. If this is OCD then the more you analyse, list, define, take responsibility for, avoid. The more legitimate these thoughts think they are. Because they "must be legitimate because look at all the time put into them."

My suggestions would be, of course, talking to your therapist or psych about this. Because I'm some random bozo on the internet. And I know extremely little about the situation. But also perhaps preparing a behaviour in advance, that you do when you have these thoughts. You'll need to work out your own context here. The idea isn't to punish yourself!! Or try to hide from the thoughts. Just a way to redirect. I'd suggest you let them come up, label them "brain vomit", and then do something more constructive. 10 push ups, a walk, a shower, a short computer game. Something where you aren't dwelling on having the thoughts, what the thoughts mean, whether you should be having the thoughts or not. Acknowledge the thoughts, and move along.

Would it be insane of me to think that everything can be sliced down to just disconnected ideas, floating around in the brain? And you just gotta connect the ideas in your own way that doesn't hurt anybody else, and make your own contexts, no matter if they differ from the norm?


I just came up with a pretty good extended metaphor to adopt as a philosophy.

The brain is a city, your personal city. And on its streets, there are puddles of vomit. They've always been there, but you haven't really noticed before. They're stuck on the streets, and they can't really be scrubbed away. But the vomit is not the city, nor is it the streets. It's simply a part of them.

Sometimes, you'll step into the puddles. Sometimes, you can avert them in time, because no one really wants to step into. Sometimes, you'll see the puddles coming, but you might absent-mindedly walk into them anyway. Or, trying to walk around, you trip and fall face-first into the vomit. Sometimes, you might walk away from a puddle only to step into another one.

The city isn't a total ruin because it has stains on its streets. Just remember; don't wipe the vomit on other people's clothes; don't let your day be ruined if you accidentally step in the vomit; it's OK if the stains disgust you.

Although it kinda feels like that I'm accepting the disgusting parts of my brain without feeling constant guilt or disgust at them, which is what I should feel for having it in my brain?

AllPurposeFeeling wrote:Although it kinda feels like that I'm accepting the disgusting parts of my brain without feeling constant guilt or disgust at them, which is what I should feel for having it in my brain?

Yes, the acceptance seems exactly right. I take back what I said before. Vomit isn't the right word. It's giving the thoughts too much power still. Too emotive a term. They're just thoughts, much like other thoughts. You can't control what enters your head. Only how long you spend thinking about thoughts that have entered.

And, be gentle with yourself. Feeling constant guilt or disgust is again legitimising these thoughts. It's saying they're real in some way, and so you have to "counteract" them. But they aren't real. They're just thoughts you have sometimes. OK. And move on.

But which thoughts are real? Which thoughts matter? If I have thoughts of grabbing children's asses, but don't really want to do it, am I a pedophile or just a person who has intrusive thoughts? Most of the time, I feel secure in knowing that I'm the latter, but I feel like that's just me trying to give a #######5 excuse! If I have a compulsion to look up weird erotica, does that mean I secretly like it or is it just an obsessive-compulsive tic that is supposed to be overcome? I feel like I know that it's the latter, but I can never be sure!

I think... I think that I'm scared that if I accept these things as part of my brain, I might drop my guard. And if I do, I'll do something terrible, like molest a child, even though I don't even want to. I wouldn't even question it. It's strange, but... I kinda feel secure in questioning and dissecting stuff, even my own brain and the ideas it spawns. Is that sense of security wrong?

Please see "random bozo" comment previously. Because I am.

My guess would be that the attempt to reach security is feeding the thoughts and making them stronger. If it's not going to cause dangerous levels of anxiety, then let go of trying. You can't reach security on this, if it's OCD then it won't let you. And if you're a paedophile then it's a non-removable part of you. So what! Lots of people are paedophilic, and they never molest a child, view any type of Child Sexual Abuse, or support abuse in any other way. Again, talk to your psych about this! But my thought would be: don't put yourself in positions where there's a question of "being on guard" in the first place. Don't be alone around children. Don't "test" yourself on real children or online images. Then it simply doesn't matter any more. You're not avoiding the thoughts, you're avoiding the stimulus.

If your reasoning is that "real paedophiles don't question themselves" then that's not true. Talking this through with your support team is the better approach. Because they can take into account all the risk factors. And suggest ways to tackle this which I can have no idea about.