IMO, narcissism is just an addiction like any other

Hello y'all,

As the child of an NPD mother and the discarded ex-wife of an NPD man, I was very glad to find this place. I have a question for all of you:

Why isn't NPD treated like an addiction?

To me, NPDs are just attention addicts. I know you've touched on this here, but I believe it isn't "like" an addiction; it IS an addiction. NPDs just seem particularly heinous because they use other human beings as their drug of choice.

In my non-professional opinion, NPD = attention addict seems obvious and I don't know why the real professionals don't treat it as such. Medication doesn't help and counseling doesn't help - counseling often makes it even worse as it becomes just another source of attention ("supply"). You can't talk an NPD out of their behaviour any more than you can talk a heroin addict into putting down the needle.

Another reason for my opinion is that my ex-husband started out as a real normal guy. There was some grandiosity and a bit of arrogance, to be sure, but never to the point of being disrespectful or destructive.

That all changed about 10 years after our marriage when he started working for a very large corporation and started climbing the ladder of success very quickly. He grew up in real poverty in a very chaotic household with resulting feelings of not being as good as the "rich kids", and the heaps of praise and material rewards the corporation laid on him was an absolute drug to him - as were the cheap stupid girls who can be found in every office and who are only too happy to get perks and promotions from their very successful big-shot boss.

He became a crackhead going to work in a crackhouse every day. The NPD was full-blown but I did not recognize it at the time - didn't really know what that was. I only knew that I could no longer reach him and that trying to talk to him about how we could make our marriage better was like putting a loaded gun in his hand and telling where to aim to do the most damage. (Sound familiar?)

To make a long story short, I had a nervous breakdown three years ago from trying to deal with him and spent 5 days in a voluntary psych ward. After being zonked to the gills on antidepressants and Ativan, I just completely disconnected from him and didn't approach him at all. And even in the house, he did not speak to me - just sat around at the computer with his on-line women and waited for me to come crawling to him and beg for a crumb of attention. When that no longer happened, he finally packed up and left (still in stone cold silence.) I have not seen or spoken to him since then. I do not know if he has ever tried to contact me. My email is blocked and my phone is never on.

A couple of months after he moved out, he gave divorce papers to our 20-yo son and told the boy to hand them to me. Fortunately, I found the papers before our son could do that. Sick, sick, sick.

I often think that his moving out and then filing for divorce were two attempts to get my attention focused back on him. Didn't work. I'd love to have my real husband back, but I'd sooner shove my hand down the garbage disposal than talk to the monster he became.

So. That's why I really believe that NPD is just another type of addiction. Does hitting bottom ever change an NPD, the way it *sometimes* does with other addicts? (If I have missed a thread on that subject, I would appreciate it if you would point me there.)

thank you for listening - I look forward to your opinions on this.
okerry

What an interesting post! I am FAR from the most expert in this topic, on this board, so I am eager to see what others say in response. My ex-NP BF is about to bottom out -- his false self had plenty of money to throw around on his incredibly expensive hobbies. That money has run out. I just hope he doesn't try to take me down with him. Anyhow, I'll keep you posted on what effect this meltdown will have on him. I've been almost hoping for this, as I think nothing less can shake him up.

(Taking deep breaths. Both of you seem somewhat vengeful. Anyway.)

There is a lot of talk about the similarity between "addictions" and Personality Disorders, particularly Cluster B's. There is a certain amount of truth that emotions = chemicals, and one can be addicted to them. Particularly cited are impulsive behaviors, which can make a person an "adrenaline junkie", also something common with Cluster Bs. A high rate of substance abuse has also been noted.

But a short way to answer why they aren't treated as addictions is: they aren't. It's a lot more complex than simply chemical withdrawal and such. The idea of a Personality Disorder is that it is deeply wired into the person's brain. It is like a brain malfunction.

A Personality Disorder is caused by long-term dysfunctional development. (Generally attributed to an abusive or neglectful childhood.) An addiction can be set off by a person's dysfunction, but ultimately is caused by a chemical process.

Also, I think that looking at it as an addiction means one is solely focusing on the reward-seeking behaviors, and is ignoring some of the other pathological aspects of NPD.

On a personal note, I was in the Mental Ward last year, and my roommate was a junkie. We found a lot of our defensive mental functioning to be the same. I personally believe addicts as just people with mental disorders who are trying to self-medicate. My room mate used drugs to "deal". I used other behaviors. So it goes.

(TL;DR, I don't think looking at it as an addiction is appropriate or helpful.)

As a side note, the reason therapy doesn't seem to work on most NPD people is due to the fact that (a) it's extremely hard to even recognize, since most cover it up with charm and compulsive lying, and (b) the NPD patient is both paranoid and vulnerable and therefore easily hurt by the therapist - and I'm sure you know the Narcissistic reaction to hurt.



My question is this: why do you have less sympathy for an attention addict than you would for a substance abuser? (Er, that's a general "you", not one of you in particular.)

This isn't an intersting thread...this is an idiotic thread.

To me, NPDs are just attention addicts. I know you've touched on this here, but I believe it isn't "like" an addiction; it IS an addiction. NPDs just seem particularly heinous because they use other human beings as their drug of choice.

NPD is where the sufferer is stuck in the Narcissistic phase of development yet the rest of her/him moves on...remember how children always blame themselves for their parents' divorce. Same thing, the Narcissistic phase is where everything and everybody revolves around the person..."arrogance" is only a surface symptom, in which, the Real Narcissist has to be "better than life" to prove his/her existence to the world.

Another reason for my opinion is that my ex-husband started out as a real normal guy. There was some grandiosity and a bit of arrogance, to be sure, but never to the point of being disrespectful or destructive.

That all changed about 10 years after our marriage when he started working for a very large corporation and started climbing the ladder of success very quickly.

A personality disorder, by definition, is a rigid personality configuration. It would not be sparked by success, failure, marriage, or any of that crap...it would have always been there. It cannot be diagnosed until the age of 18, but for myself and from the narratives of many others, it does seem to bud throughout childhood. Its a complete lack of an emotional vocabulary as the "real me" was never allowed to grow and develop. This has nothing to do with this alleged arrogance you normies speak of.

the heaps of praise and material rewards the corporation laid on him was an absolute drug to him - as were the cheap stupid girls who can be found in every office and who are only too happy to get perks and promotions from their very successful big-shot boss.

There are many, in fact millions, of regular folks who become addicted to success and let their egos take off with a one way ticket to mars. That doesn't mean a PD is at play.

Honestly, you could have easily spent $2 in late fees from a library reading about the origins of NPD after looking at wiki. So, instead of labeling every jack*ss you meet, including your husband, and spitting on every "victim" here from real NPD why don't you do some research properly and stop wasting our time.

See a shrink or read a book. If you want to speak about qualifications, I have the label and have been in recovery for some time.

Euler wrote:This isn't an intersting thread...this is an idiotic thread.

To me, NPDs are just attention addicts. I know you've touched on this here, but I believe it isn't "like" an addiction; it IS an addiction. NPDs just seem particularly heinous because they use other human beings as their drug of choice.

NPD is where the sufferer is stuck in the Narcissistic phase of development yet the rest of her/him moves on...remember how children always blame themselves for their parents' divorce. Same thing, the Narcissistic phase is where everything and everybody revolves around the person..."arrogance" is only a surface symptom, in which, the Real Narcissist has to be "better than life" to prove his/her existence to the world.

Another reason for my opinion is that my ex-husband started out as a real normal guy. There was some grandiosity and a bit of arrogance, to be sure, but never to the point of being disrespectful or destructive.

That all changed about 10 years after our marriage when he started working for a very large corporation and started climbing the ladder of success very quickly.

A personality disorder, by definition, is a rigid personality configuration. It would not be sparked by success, failure, marriage, or any of that crap...it would have always been there. It cannot be diagnosed until the age of 18, but for myself and from the narratives of many others, it does seem to bud throughout childhood. Its a complete lack of an emotional vocabulary as the "real me" was never allowed to grow and develop. This has nothing to do with this alleged arrogance you normies speak of.

the heaps of praise and material rewards the corporation laid on him was an absolute drug to him - as were the cheap stupid girls who can be found in every office and who are only too happy to get perks and promotions from their very successful big-shot boss.

There are many, in fact millions, of regular folks who become addicted to success and let their egos take off with a one way ticket to mars. That doesn't mean a PD is at play.

Honestly, you could have easily spent $2 in late fees from a library reading about the origins of NPD after looking at wiki. So, instead of labeling every jack*ss you meet, including your husband, and spitting on every "victim" here from real NPD why don't you do some research properly and stop wasting our time.

See a shrink or read a book. If you want to speak about qualifications, I have the label and have been in recovery for some time.

This would be a useful post, besides of the following lines:

"This isn't an intersting thread...this is an idiotic thread."
" So, instead of labeling every jack*ss you meet, including your husband, and spitting on every "victim" here from real NPD why don't you do some research properly and stop wasting our time."
"See a shrink or read a book."

Why you do this?

And at the same time you write: "If you want to speak about qualifications, I have the label and have been in recovery for some time."
Who is that shrink you are visiting?

okerry wrote:Hello y'all,

As the child of an NPD mother and the discarded ex-wife of an NPD man, I was very glad to find this place. I have a question for all of you:

Why isn't NPD treated like an addiction?

To me, NPDs are just attention addicts. I know you've touched on this here, but I believe it isn't "like" an addiction; it IS an addiction. NPDs just seem particularly heinous because they use other human beings as their drug of choice.

In my non-professional opinion, NPD = attention addict seems obvious and I don't know why the real professionals don't treat it as such. Medication doesn't help and counseling doesn't help - counseling often makes it even worse as it becomes just another source of attention ("supply"). You can't talk an NPD out of their behaviour any more than you can talk a heroin addict into putting down the needle.

Another reason for my opinion is that my ex-husband started out as a real normal guy. There was some grandiosity and a bit of arrogance, to be sure, but never to the point of being disrespectful or destructive.

That all changed about 10 years after our marriage when he started working for a very large corporation and started climbing the ladder of success very quickly. He grew up in real poverty in a very chaotic household with resulting feelings of not being as good as the "rich kids", and the heaps of praise and material rewards the corporation laid on him was an absolute drug to him - as were the cheap stupid girls who can be found in every office and who are only too happy to get perks and promotions from their very successful big-shot boss.

He became a crackhead going to work in a crackhouse every day. The NPD was full-blown but I did not recognize it at the time - didn't really know what that was. I only knew that I could no longer reach him and that trying to talk to him about how we could make our marriage better was like putting a loaded gun in his hand and telling where to aim to do the most damage. (Sound familiar?)

To make a long story short, I had a nervous breakdown three years ago from trying to deal with him and spent 5 days in a voluntary psych ward. After being zonked to the gills on antidepressants and Ativan, I just completely disconnected from him and didn't approach him at all. And even in the house, he did not speak to me - just sat around at the computer with his on-line women and waited for me to come crawling to him and beg for a crumb of attention. When that no longer happened, he finally packed up and left (still in stone cold silence.) I have not seen or spoken to him since then. I do not know if he has ever tried to contact me. My email is blocked and my phone is never on.

A couple of months after he moved out, he gave divorce papers to our 20-yo son and told the boy to hand them to me. Fortunately, I found the papers before our son could do that. Sick, sick, sick.

I often think that his moving out and then filing for divorce were two attempts to get my attention focused back on him. Didn't work. I'd love to have my real husband back, but I'd sooner shove my hand down the garbage disposal than talk to the monster he became.

So. That's why I really believe that NPD is just another type of addiction. Does hitting bottom ever change an NPD, the way it *sometimes* does with other addicts? (If I have missed a thread on that subject, I would appreciate it if you would point me there.)

thank you for listening - I look forward to your opinions on this.
okerry

I think you're right, it is a sort of addiction, their mind wants attention and if there is no attention, they get depressed, just as anyone with an addiction.

Run wrote:Why you do this?

Because he's mad. Duh.

I held back a lot of what I WANTED to say, but I'm equally as irritated.

Because he's mad. Duh.

I held back a lot of what I WANTED to say, but I'm equally as irritated.

Not exactly angry but yes...irritated buy such garbage.

And at the same time you write: "If you want to speak about qualifications, I have the label and have been in recovery for some time."
Who is that shrink you are visiting?

Good for you for comprehending healthy boundaries...lol

This would be a useful post, besides of the following lines:

"This isn't an intersting thread...this is an idiotic thread."
" So, instead of labeling every jack*ss you meet, including your husband, and spitting on every "victim" here from real NPD why don't you do some research properly and stop wasting our time."
"See a shrink or read a book."

Why you do this?

I have a solid policy of treating people with respect, in which, I'll hold my tongue until they act blatantly idiotic. I meant every word that's not a symptom of NPD, that's a symptom of me being human...when folks spread, instigate, and reinforce a profound stigma against a group that I happen happen to belong than yes...I'm going to say something and it may not be pretty.

To get the point through your dense skull, what what you say if a guy said something belligerently sexist? NPD has a very bad rap because the majority of the "research", I mean pop-psychology, spends its resources basically talking crap instead of focusing on how to treat us.

Meanwhile, there's been some very courageous therapists who have gone deeper...and not focused on grandiosity. Anyways, the point being that anybody with a brain cell can read whats all ready been written about the origins of NPD and see that grandiosity is a surface system you half witted twit.

Euler wrote:

Because he's mad. Duh.

I held back a lot of what I WANTED to say, but I'm equally as irritated.

Not exactly angry but yes...irritated buy such garbage.

And at the same time you write: "If you want to speak about qualifications, I have the label and have been in recovery for some time."
Who is that shrink you are visiting?

Good for you for comprehending healthy boundaries...lol

This would be a useful post, besides of the following lines:

"This isn't an intersting thread...this is an idiotic thread."
" So, instead of labeling every jack*ss you meet, including your husband, and spitting on every "victim" here from real NPD why don't you do some research properly and stop wasting our time."
"See a shrink or read a book."

Why you do this?

I have a solid policy of treating people with respect, in which, I'll hold my tongue until they act blatantly idiotic. I meant every word that's not a symptom of NPD, that's a symptom of me being human...when folks spread, instigate, and reinforce a profound stigma against a group that I happen happen to belong than yes...I'm going to say something and it may not be pretty.

To get the point through your dense skull, what what you say if a guy said something belligerently sexist? NPD has a very bad rap because the majority of the "research", I mean pop-psychology, spends its resources basically talking crap instead of focusing on how to treat us.

Meanwhile, there's been some very courageous therapists who have gone deeper...and not focused on grandiosity. Anyways, the point being that anybody with a brain cell can read whats all ready been written about the origins of NPD and see that grandiosity is a surface system you half witted twit.

If you want this to be a forum for narcs ánd nons, you have to behave.
Otherwise go to a forum for only narcs. There you can rant and devalue as much as you want.

I know this is not a spiritual site, but before I knew about npd. I pray alot and asked God to give me some answers on what is going on with my wife. I woke up from a dead sleep one night and wrote this. I woke up the next morning and saw it laying next to my bed.
"she is addicted to control and manipulation and she will use any means necessary to get what she wants incuding the kids, sex, affection, love or whatever she deems necessary. She will never see there is a problem until all her sources of control are stripped from her" I would never have come up with this on my own, but this is pretty much her.

so yeah I think it gets to be an addiction to control of your surroundings and other people. but what is the reason for the control that is where the npd comes in. just sharing my story alittle.

And come on everyone cant we all just get along, not to sound co dependent or anything. I would not say it is an idiotic post, I have thought it close to an addiction as well when you deal with someone like this. but it is the thought process that brings in the npd i guess. go ahead butcher away. we can be civil, narcs sometimes have a hard time realizing that other people are allowed to have opinions and have every right to question them, otherwise they devalue them, such as what we are seeing here.