IMO, narcissism is just an addiction like any other

Euler wrote:Good for you for comprehending healthy boundaries...lol

Yeah, I thought that too. Is he trying to imply you're NOT seeing a shrink? I can't tell

Euler wrote:...when folks spread, instigate, and reinforce a profound stigma against a group that I happen happen to belong than yes...I'm going to say something and it may not be pretty.

Thank you so much for this.

Run wrote:If you want this to be a forum for narcs ánd nons, you have to behave.
Otherwise go to a forum for only narcs. There you can rant and devalue as much as you want.

So we have to "behave" and be polite, and you don't? Come on, now.

This is more a forum for Narcs than it is for nons. Is the OCD forum full of non-OCD people complaining about how they deal with their OCD loved ones hoarding? Or the Eating Disorder board, is it full of parents complaining how hard it is to have a disordered daughter?

You "victims" have SO MANY resources available, and we have virtually none. We should be (and are) allowed to rant here.

And if you think we don't "deserve" it due to the fact that we're narcs, you are hypocritical and ignorant and need to get off.

(Also, this isn't devaluing, because I doubt very much Euler or nor I valued you in the first place.)

harleydog wrote:I know this is not a spiritual site, but before I knew about npd. I pray alot and asked God to give me some answers on what is going on with my wife. I woke up from a dead sleep one night and wrote this. I woke up the next morning and saw it laying next to my bed.
"she is addicted to control and manipulation and she will use any means necessary to get what she wants incuding the kids, sex, affection, love or whatever she deems necessary. She will never see there is a problem until all her sources of control are stripped from her" I would never have come up with this on my own, but this is pretty much her.

so yeah I think it gets to be an addiction to control of your surroundings and other people. but what is the reason for the control that is where the npd comes in. just sharing my story alittle.

And come on everyone cant we all just get along, not to sound co dependent or anything. I would not say it is an idiotic post, I have thought it close to an addiction as well when you deal with someone like this. but it is the thought process that brings in the npd i guess. go ahead butcher away. we can be civil, narcs sometimes have a hard time realizing that other people are allowed to have opinions and have every right to question them, otherwise they devalue them, such as what we are seeing here.

To see it this way, it's clear why living with someone who is controlling and manipulation is so difficult. You can compare it to live with someone who is an alcoholic.

OHHOH. This is ANOTHER problem that we continually have with Nons on the board. You guys seem to think EVERYTHING we say and do is a Symptom or narcissistic Trait. EVERYTHING. WE are not allowed to have opinions that YOU disagree with. We're obviously just devaluating, or exaggerating, or lying. Especially if we seem upset - well clearly that's just a "rage" and doesn't need to be taken seriously.

A person with mental illness is MORE than their mental illness.

narcs sometimes have a hard time realizing that other people are allowed to have opinions and have every right to question them, otherwise they devalue them, such as what we are seeing here.

This is complete...nonsense, let's use that word. Nonsense.

First, Neither Euler nor I are "devaluating". In order to do that, we would have had to be "idealizing" you. At best I am completely indifferent to the Nons on here.

Secondly, I *AM* allowing your opinions., I tried to bring up perfectly reasonable, valid points supporting, the concept of NPD=addiction. And then I explained why I disagreed. Just because I disagree with your opinion - even in a harsh way - does NOT mean I'm "not allowing you" to have it.

The original poster was not just stating an observation, they were talking about the etiology and treatment of NPD. If she was JUST talking about her experiences, I wouldn't have though anything of it. But we're moving into the realm of FACTS now.

If it's an addiction, it's one we've had since being toddlers. Saying it's an addiction is inaccurate and overly-simplistic.


Can we get a third party opinion here? I'm pretty sure that the feeling of unfair treatment is genuinely founded, in this case. Yes, Euler called names. But his upset is justified.

Guys, try not to argue here.
Nons, you do have the right to express your opinions, but if someone who has NPD or is close to it corrects you or explains things to you, they're within their rights, remember that they might know more about the disorder.
Also, Euler and everyone, please don't use insults.

We do need to take on board that there will always be newcomers here, like myself who are naive, under a great deal of trauma and as a result lacking in empathy; I could go to another site but personally I want and need to hear from Ns, to gain insight into their perspective on things. I am overwhelmed and just trying to make sense of everything that I'm reading.

I have no ill feelings toward my ex at all. I have nothing but admiration and fondness and appreciation for the Ns on here. . and the most immense gratitude thank you

My question is this: why do you have less sympathy for an attention addict than you would for a substance abuser? (Er, that's a general "you", not one of you in particular.)

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I don't. That's kinda the point. To me, they're the same thing. Alcoholics abuse alcohol, while NPDs abuse people. Same dyanmic and same purpose (feel good and get a high, however brief,) just different substance.

NPD is where the sufferer is stuck in the Narcissistic phase of development yet the rest of her/him moves on...remember how children always blame themselves for their parents' divorce. Same thing, the Narcissistic phase is where everything and everybody revolves around the person..."arrogance" is only a surface symptom, in which, the Real Narcissist has to be "better than life" to prove his/her existence to the world.

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I get it. I really do. You want to be different and special. You don't want to be just another junkie where the only difference is you use people instead of using meth or crack. But you will never feel better and you will never recover unless and until you can own up to the truth - and the truth is, you are not a special case. No addict is. Addicts are sadly and pathetically alike, including the denial they are in.

Ever seen the TV shows on *Hoarders*? The psychatrists there do the same things that the ones treating NPDs do - they tap-dance around the real problem and coddle the hoarders by trying to understand their "different thought process" and "disordered thinking" - and the so-called treatment virtually always fails miserably. Truth is, hoarders are just shopping addicts, plain and simple. And NPDs are attention junkies, plain and simple.

Now, I do agree with you that addiction is most often an attempt to self-medicate after some loss or trauma - maybe in childhood, maybe in adulthood. But that only supports the view that NPD is not a disorder that someone is born with - again, it is simply another addiction with all the characteristics of an addiction. The escalation of the behaviour and the protection of the drug at all costs, even over one's own children, are just as typical of NPDs as they are of alcoholics.

so yeah I think it gets to be an addiction to control of your surroundings and other people. but what is the reason for the control that is where the npd comes in.

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The reason for the control - for the addiction - is the same as for an addiction to any substance (alcohol, cocaine, meth) or behaviour (gambling, sex, attention).

We are all wired to be attracted to more of whatever Feels Good. That keeps us alive and healthy. The trouble starts when we allow the Feel Good substance/behaviour to take control of our lives - and yes, every addict at some point made the choice to allow this to happen.

If no choice were involved, then no one could ever make the choice to get in recovery - but people do make that choice every day.

Interesting note: In many tellings of the vampire legend, the victim has to *invite* the vampire into his/her life. The vampire can't just grab you unawares. And one reason why vampies and zombies are so very popular in books and movies right now is because they make excellent metaphors for addiction - addiction of any kind, not just NPD.

The vampires, almost always attractive and beautiful and even seductive, represent the addicts who are also people we know and love.

The faceless, ugly zombies, usually shuffling around in packs, represent the addicts who are people we don't know but who nevertheless infest our lives and drag us down.

And if you think we don't "deserve" it due to the fact that we're narcs, you are hypocritical and ignorant and need to get off.

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Please do rant all you want - you are right, this site does allow that. I'm the last one to try to stop you because I sure do know how futile that is.

But I will tell you that I feel terribly sorry for anyone going through life with NPD. I feel nothing but sorrow for my ex-husband, who lives a life filled with cheap stupid women and an endless line of suck-ups who will feed him the attention he thinks he can't live without. But he no longer has the adult children who once loved him so much, and he is missing out on his grandchildren, and he has no wife he can count on for love and support. I tried, but he kicked me to the curb for not supporting his drug habit (his narcissism and sex addiction). No addict will ever love any human being as much as they love their drug of choice.

I think you deserve something much better than to go through life with only a drug, and I'm sorry that you don't think you do.

okerry, you're somewhat right. NPD does have an element of being addicted to narcissistic supply, but that's not the only element. What would your suggestion be for the narcissist who wanted to get better? Since it's an addiction they could supposedly heal and become well again by just breaking the addiction?

Also no offense lol, but I think you'll find that you're severely outmatched when it comes to knowledge of narcissism on this board. We have a lot of self aware narcissists on here who have first hand experience of what it's like to have NPD and the general consensus seems to be that it goes a lot deeper than just your average 'drug' addiction. You're grossly oversimplifying it, and it's probably because you've been hurt by your narc ex, which is fair enough, but I suggest you have a read of some of the topics on this board with an open mind and you'll see that NPD is a lot more than just being addicted to narcissistic supply.
It runs a lot deeper and actually goes right down to full blown NPD being a case of having little to no realistic sense of self whatsoever. People with npd rely on outside sources to sustain their inner delusions. They can't really love people as individuals because they're too fond of seeing things in black and white (good or bad) and they can't accept anything that's less than perfect. There's a lot of explanations floating around.

Your comparison of NPD'ers to drug addicts is quite offensive though. First of all, it implies choice. True NPD'ers have a lack of empathy that they can't change at will. Drug addicts can choose to get clean with enough will power and perseverance; suggesting that people with personality disorders can do the same is like saying that people with schizophrenia just need to ignore the voices. Also, drug addicts can go back to being functioning people if they lost their addiction, NPD'ers can't, because a healthy, functioning ego never developed. They can't go back to something they've never known.

So yeah... it's not really the same thing