People who don't like people

Excalibur I have replied to your comments in part. I am brutally honest. We are all products of our enviroment and I understand how I beccame this way. I don't blame others, nor do I blame mom. I was always shy and recessive. No body owes I agree. With no interest I have had no expectations other than being treated decently.
You cannot force to people to conduct themselves by a particular standard or code. IT's your obligation toyou to affiliate with people that are conducting themselves in ways that you respect, admire and accept as "right" - so that you're associating with people that will treat you decently by a shared standard - bcause THEY require it of themselves to treat all people decently.


How anyone developes an interest in something I don't understand.
Of course you don't - you're in your 50's. As a child, as an adolescent and young adult - that was the ideal time to expand your horizons, develop interests, involve passionately in pursuits that expanded your world, and broadened your self-awareness. You didn't. It doesn't mean you can't do so now. It just means that it'll be MORE foreign as a concept - and it won't be the 'Norm" in your peer group. It's going to be unfamiliar to involve in something for yourself, with just yourself, only to expand yourself - that's not what you ever did - whicih is what brought you to this point. I do get it - I was the same until 33....and which point I was back against the wall, had shot the wad, had no options, alternatives, resources, or potential - nad had to "develop and create a person" - out of the rubble of "reactivity" from my adolescence to that point.It does take years to get proficient at doing something. most peopel only want to do what comes easily or they do well - you're giong to be 5 again "exploring" what you like, and figuring out what you're capable of doing...it's not uncommon as a concept - it's just familiar to you.

I hear kids say they want to be a marine biologist for example. I have cursiry interest in everyting but that's as far as it goes.
Nobody has more than cursory interest, until they commit, set goals and achieve within a particular spectrum or element. You're waiting for something to jump off the page, grab your attentionn, and you instantly excel at it - won't happen.

Seems harder to be interested in anythng being depressed. Also I have seen and heard most everything before. New music or movies are not really so new for instance. Hard to fake an intense interest in something for more than short time. That's your problem - you fake everything.
Two things you mention I am not clear on. Give to get. Is that not what everyone does?
Dysfunctional people yes - intelligent, self-responsible, and successful people no.
Frankly I can not think of examples not based on that other than heroic acts. Second thing is the difference detween reactor and responder. Care to elaborate?
To react is simplyl to be a pinball in the machine of life and have no purpose or involvement unless you "bounce off something or someone else. Their wants, eneds, goals, priorities, impact - to react is to "have been impacted."

Responders have goals, they have focus, vision and self-requirement. They're proactively involved in life - to achieve what they consider imperative and necessary to their advancement and expansion. Responders don't need to "hit something" in order to be in motion - they have a purpose and are moving towards it - thus they avoid anything that is going to keep them from their goal.

bahhumbug wrote:Plicketycat it seems unhealthy because the meaning of life is other people. What is the point of tommorrow if you are the only person on the planet for all practical purposes? What I see ahead for me is getting old(er), getting sick, going broke at some point, and being alone. That's four strikes. I supposse I have been clinically depressed for most of my adult life. The last five years I have gotten increasingly bitter. Heck, I wouldn't hang out with myself. I have always withdrawn when I did not feel wanted - which has been all the time. It's not like I want to be the center of attention but how about others choosing to interact with me without it being because they want something. I can talk intelligently about anything. I have never been a fun guy though. What gives value to life? Is it not what others get from you? Your boss values you for the money he can make off you. Your friends value you for what help or fun you bring to them.

I don't blame others for reacting to me as they do. Becoming aware of the reasons, and no longer being the patsy, I've withdrawn. Obviously withdrawing, as has been my habit, exaberates the problem. Not having interests to relate to others makes it unrealistic to expect others to be interested. See how this goes in a circle?

Is this what you truly believe is the meaning of life, or the meaning of life that you've been taught? It seems academic, but I have found many of my "beliefs" were not my own. They were taught to me, and didn't really align with how I truly felt... this friction was causing me problems. Perhaps you only need one or two people in your life and your quest to be useful and social is actually causing you pain? I was also taught that a person's only value was what they produced and gave. This message continues to cause me extreme pain because in my heart I know that everyone has intrinsic value simply because they exist. For me, what you are is much more important than what you do. This perspective is not the majority perspective... I'd say less than 20% of the population.

I truly think once you determine which of your beliefs are implanted and which ones you truly feel, you will feel better about yourself and be able to get on with your life. Once you accept yourself, your beliefs, your value system and reject the things that don't really fit you the resentment and bitterness of being forced to be something that you're not will dissolve. I understand the feeling of being unwanted and withdrawing, and how this can form a viscious cycle. You may just have a rare personality type and your differences are leading to feelings of alienation. I think if you learn more about yourself and learn to accept yourself, you may find the peace and connections you're seeking.

the problem appears to be that you're in your 50's and for your entire life you've gone around doing what other people thought was right for you to do, getting the results of your actions but hating the results......and not being true to self-creation and definition.

The older you get the less people see you as having potential. So they don't involve with you based on what you "might' become or might achieve, they associate with you based on what you have accomplished, and stand for based on your consistent actions.

The only consistency is that you've done what other people believe is right, to get their attentionand approval. That's not had the result of you liking, admiring, trusting, or accepting yourself.

I just wanted to say that I understand where you're coming from, bahhumbug, and I feel that some of the responses have been a bit harsh and unjustified. I have always been shy too and have had trouble making and keeping friends. I also have felt taken advantage of by people after giving and helping them and not getting much in return. I have walked away from friendships because of this because I'd rather be alone than spend time with people who truly don't care about me. Luckily, though, I do have a couple of great friends who want nothing from me, but accept what I give with graciousness, and are always there for me if I need them in return. It just seems that I meet fewer people like that than like the other, which also makes me appreciate them more.

I have also been depressed, which definitely makes it hard to find interest or enjoyment in things. Have you tried medication or therapy for the depression? That would probably make a big difference.

Most of the time, I hate people. It's very generalized though because occasionally I do meet individual people that I enjoy. I get tired of the things most people find interesting and most people bore me (I am aware how that sounds but I really do not feel superior or anything. I bore myself much of the time too!). I'm in my 30s and find myself sinking in this more and more as time goes by. But I haven't given up. I still go out sometimes and meet people and do different things, even though I usually don't feel like it, and sometimes I am surprised to find that I even had fun. I'm also not the life of any party and people tend to overlook me for that a lot. Flash tends to attract more than substance does unfortunately.

My advice would be to treat the depression first, and then start going places that you would not normally go and start looking for the things that will spark your interest. Give people a chance and accept that most people will probably be more interested in talking to the fun, outgoing, entertaining types BUT there are also many people who will be interested in talking to the quieter, less "exciting" types like us. It does happen.

Canadianmetalhead - I agree my bad attitude is all but ensuring this continues. But what about the negative treatment back when I was a hopeful and blissfully ignorant child? This all goes back to the years before school. My mom was not one to drop in on a neighbor and chat over coffee. So I had extremely limited contact with anyone else. I started school with the social maturity of a two year old. Not a unique situation and many others caught up. I never did. Having buck teeth did not help. Somehow no one yanked me aside and and told me how to handle it. I never caused trouble so I got no attention that way. I got good grades but not stellar to get attention that way either. Attention was always in the form of being mocked making it a relief to be ignored. It's not give what you get, it's that people only give when they see the potential to get. If they see no benefit for themselves they go shopping for benefits elsewhere. I don't blame them. That's the way the world is. I simply remained clueless for far too long because I was always functional. Perhaps I would be better off to have remained blissfully ignorant.

Excalibur - Can't say I'm looking for the Holy Grail as far as interests go anymore. Males identify by career and starting one now is rather absurb. I'll settle for the mild amusment I have with many thngs. Pinball is a good description. My goal is to basically to get by till I die and it would be nice to have a small circle of friends.

Plinkwtycat - I am very logical. I see no purpose for life as an island. The purpose of interacting is to gain. This works when both gain and en toto can become synergistic. What I want is somethng I never consciously identified. I don't lust for a brand new car etc. To state it now I would simply say enough money to not worry, and a few friends to get out of the house with occasionally. I do accept myself and continue with my beliefs because I am confident I am right. Where does one go to find the rare compatable people? My town is on the smaller side.

Coffeebreaking - You do sound a lot like me. I've seen a lot of people on meds and have no desire to be turned into a human yo-yo. Prescription meds do not change the underlaying conditions. St. Johns Wort is something I tried with a mild lift to my spirits. I should probably try that again and maybe double up on it. Serenity is one I have also heard about that I might try. Then I would need to meet some people in real life and have low expectations (I do) that any friendship develops. Sounds like the begining of a plan?

I want to thank you all. I'm tougher than to cringe or buckle at whatever you say. If it is truth then it is not bashing.

bahhumbug wrote:Plicketycat - I am very logical. I see no purpose for life as an island. The purpose of interacting is to gain. This works when both gain and en toto can become synergistic. What I want is somethng I never consciously identified. I don't lust for a brand new car etc. To state it now I would simply say enough money to not worry, and a few friends to get out of the house with occasionally. I do accept myself and continue with my beliefs because I am confident I am right. Where does one go to find the rare compatable people? My town is on the smaller side.

In truth, I was extremely lucky to find a compatible mate at work. The rest of the people I talk with are all online. By joining forums geared to people with compatable mindsets (personality types & mental conditions), I have finally found people that I can share with comfortably and be myself around. I eventually found some of these people lived close to me, so the opportunity exists for us to be IRL friends should the mood strike us to be outwardly social.

Excalibur - Can't say I'm looking for the Holy Grail as far as interests go anymore. Males identify by career and starting one now is rather absurb. I'll settle for the mild amusment I have with many thngs. Pinball is a good description. My goal is to basically to get by till I die and it would be nice to have a small circle of friends.

Most people form close association by sharing a passionate interest, or perception of life and how they pursue their own happiness and security.

Involvement with people for superficial, tangible, immdiate gratification, distraction, or attention is really what you're relegated to living the "pinball" life.

People that have a use for what you offer or do well, will be around when they need that and you're willing to provide.

When you're young, some people will invest in your potential. At your age, people associate because of your accomplishments, abilities and character, or don't due to lack thereof.

You are basically agreeing with me then Excalibur that the realistic view for my future is pretty dim.

I have gone to Codependents Anonymous.com. Their description fits me fairly well. As an independent thinker I had never thought of myself as codependent. There are no local groups listed but they don't appear to keep that portion of the site up to date. Maybe a search of local resources will come up with something.

What happens when two or a group of codependent people are put together? Perhaps no sparks and fireworks. Perhaps no unforgetable parties? Perhaps some stable satisfactory relationships?

Codependent was not a psychological term meant to describe "a person's personality type".

codependent was a psychology term used to describe an interactive dynamic between two people.

There's codependent "givers" - they identify themselves thru alliance, they give to get. any association is what proves "worth".

There's codependent 'takers" - they believe that to be served, given to without obligation is what indicates they're "worthy" of being.

In a room of codependent "givers" - you'd have wide-eyed, nervous nellies sitting around going 'what do you need, what can I do, waht can I offer, or enable to have you like me?" they have nothing they're involved in, passionate about, pursuing - so they live to serve, they have lives that are organized and prepare to fund and allow, enable, and prioritize the needs, wants, and desires and goals of someone else.

In a room of codependent "takers" - you'd have vicious arguments, or perhaps brawls, and everybody is looking to be worshipped, adored, and adhered to without question or hesitation. those people have no organization, no plan - they have needs, expectations, and demands......and in a room of people like themselves, they'd find themselves at war.

Ying to yang - you attract what you are in base, but in opposite manifestation.

Ifyou're someone who believes that you're basically worth - less - until you have someone to serve, identify thru, align with, and take up the causes, projects, needs, and wants of - you're going to attract a 'taker".

Nobody looking to interact, is entitled to take. But you're not looking to interact, you're looking to serve.

plicketycat wrote:In truth, I was extremely lucky to find a compatible mate at work. The rest of the people I talk with are all online. By joining forums geared to people with compatable mindsets (personality types & mental conditions), I have finally found people that I can share with comfortably and be myself around. I eventually found some of these people lived close to me, so the opportunity exists for us to be IRL friends should the mood strike us to be outwardly social.

I too have located people nearby my physical location out of shear coincidence. It's also refreshing when one meets someone with common interests and a special compatibility.