How to be friends?

Trigger warning for obsession, stalking, gaslighting, anorexia, and death.

Post:
I've written about the precise reason that brought me to this question in my journey thread (I don't know how to link, I'm technically unskilled. Reckon the url button up here while writing this comes into it). I'll summarise quickly:

A few days ago, I thought my friend [24, male to female trans, still in male body] had a crush on me [30, f] but refused to admit to it because I'm happily engaged and a good 6 years older. Since this made her put me on a pedestal and lie to me about seemingly trivial things that added up, I decided enough was enough. It turned out after a confrontation with my evidence that my friend, I'll call her N, was actually obsessed with me.

This is worse to me. I've been obsessed over before with extreme consequences. I've been abused, the person obsessing died, stalked, and now I've been gaslighted into thinking my discomfort with constant messaging and oversharing was normal for 'best friends'. It's brought me to the conclusion that I don't know what it is like to have a normal friend and what boundaries are normal.

In the case of N, I feel bad for feeling bad. Good things were going on here. I enjoyed time spent together, but I also ignored discomfort because N told me it was normal for our uniquely close friendship. If I want to salvage our friendship or actually rather start it anew, N needs to become her own person and I need to learn to keep my boundaries, but I don't know what is normal and what is problematic behaviour on my part.

Right now I'm keeping space and informed N of that so she can think and so can I but I'm just stuck on "Who even was she aside from an attempt at copying me? What part was I friends with? How am I supposed to pick this up again? Should I even pick it up again?" and so on.

Anyone got any ideas? Would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

~ Grey

Hello Grey,

That was a little difficult to sort through but ultimately I imagine it centers around boundaries and how to establish a long-term stable relationship - as friends. So, question:

Are you able to establish boundaries in other relationships? Are you the type of person who can step back and construct an imaginary idea of what you would like to have in a relationship that has clear boundaries (and how to enforce them)? I ask because you say you are stuck. Is it this relationship in particular or is this an overall problem?

Hey otter, thanks for replying and sorry for the mess. My head and the situation feel like a mess.

I get the sense that I'm very bad with boundaries. I thought if something makes me uncomfortable, I don't do it.
But the thing is, I get uncomfortable rather easily. For example, I know friends hug each other when they see each other after a while or when they leave, but I don't like hugs unless they come from my partner. I feel anxious when others touch me. I'm even uncomfortable if I get hugged by my family, but I know it's rude to not hug people goodbye in my culture so I do it anyway. In that manner, I let my boundaries be crossed easily. I have no clue which boundaries I can enforce.

With N, she'd message me everyday, several times, often almost instantly after I responded. It was like she was the first and last person to talk to me every hour. And if I didn't answer, she'd send another message asking if I was okay within three hours, and then another within two to see if I was mad with her. I told her I thought she was too attached by texting that often. She responded by sulking and saying "I thought it was normal for friends" and "I'm sorry for bothering you". This made me apologetic because I thought I was in the wrong for being uncomfortable with that many texts a day.

So yes, I'm horrible with boundaries because
1) I don't know what the average friend boundaries look like
2) I don't want to hurt people or be rude to them

I hope this is less messy to read. I've been trying to Google about boundaries but I only ever find things that say "oh but if it's your best friend, it's fine to talk a lot". That's why I hoped someone could give me better input.

~ Grey

Yes, this did clarify things, thank you.

Although there are boundaries that most people would agree should not be crossed each of us is different. Some accept things that others wouldn't. I would treat each case differently and ask someone if something is ok or not. Conversely, I would tell someone when they are crossing unacceptable boundaries, like N.

That's precisely my issue. I can't seem to say 'no'.
thought I solved that issue when I went to therapy 10 years ago, but at some point I must have slipped back into the habit or maybe I never quit the habit.

Plus, I still don't know what to do about N. We haven't been talking for a while now. She tried messaging me but I gave her one reply to let her know I wouldn't reply anymore and how I need the space. I gave her a clear explanation of how I felt and all. She replied to that and I ignored it.

I want to keep my friend but the more I realise the extent of her obsession with me, the more I feel like this is an issue that can't be resolved without extra help for us both. I need to be able to say 'no' and she needs therapy for all sorts of things too.

Am I supposed to just not talk to her until she goes to therapy? Should I drop the idea that we can still be friends?

~ Grey

Triskelion wrote:Plus, I still don't know what to do about N. We haven't been talking for a while now. She tried messaging me but I gave her one reply to let her know I wouldn't reply anymore and how I need the space. I gave her a clear explanation of how I felt and all. She replied to that and I ignored it.

You said in the first part of your previous post that you can't seem to say 'no'. But the next paragraph (quoted above) seems to be like you saying 'no'. What do you think the difference is - between saying no and what you said above?

Okay, let me rephrase that to: "I struggle to enforce my boundaries until they've been crossed by a mile already".

Plus, I'll admit with N I only managed to step up is because my partner got upset when I told her about the situation. So now I know to keep my distance for a bit while I figure out how to avoid it coming to this point in the future. I'm afraid I'll just let it escalate again as I did this time around.

I'm like the person that when you punch my arm, I'll be upset cause I don't like that obviously, but I won't say anything until I've been punched like 10 times and then I hit back with a baseball bat. I think that's about as clear an analogy as I can manage.
So I need to learn to say "don't punch me, I don't like that" on the first hit.

So to answer your question, the difference lies in the when I manage to say it. By myself on time vs by myself but too late vs because others pointed out an issue

~ Grey

A lot of people have a hard time with confrontation and they need to be pushed to extremes before they react. I guess that is what's going on here.

May I ask - have you been particularly concerned with the way people perceive you, and you don't like people to think poorly of you, even those people you don't much care for?

I get the impression people feel poorly about me even if I'm on my best behaviour. The main issue is that I'm afraid to upset them, I think, and I tend to expect people to be upset easily. When people are sad, I feel bad. When people are angry, I'm scared.

I know it's unfair to expect people to not be understanding when I tell them 'no', but it's almost like a reflex at this point. I'd rather be hurt for having a boundary crossed than for them to be sad or angry.

What you're suggesting probably plays into it as well though, but to a lesser degree. Rather than wanting to look good to others, I want to not be seen as complicated or rude. Best example I have is that in my partner's culture, you greet each other with a hug and kisses on the cheeks. Well, I absolutely hate that. Especially with strangers. But I allowed people to do it anyway cause I thought they'd be upset and that my actions would be seen as rude. I didn't care if they didn't like me as a person for my personality, but I did care to at least not harm them and respect their culture at my own expense.

~ Grey

You seem like a thoughtful person. Sadly, there are some people who, at best, ignore such gestures because they are caught up in their own world, or, at worst, take advantage of people's kind nature.

Becoming more assertive doesn't have to be done all at once, but you can slowly begin to build boundaries. There is nothing wrong with being polite but direct in giving someone else an idea of what is acceptable to you and what it not.