How do you win back somebody with HPD? Does my ex have it?

Younglife wrote:But how do you talk to somebody who can legitimately not comprehend anything they're doing is a bad idea or is wrong without losing your mind?

Odds are she is someone who pursues her wants of the moment, and those wants change rapidly. Ironically that can be the draw, when we are aligned with the impulsive want of the moment, but it's an ego blow when we no longer are.

There is no changing someone who is impulsive, short-term thinking, driven by satisfying their own immediate wants. There is no deeper logic beyond that, so trying to speak about it is pointless. Oh sure, she may not always enjoy the consequences, but on a scale, she has already decided future consequences are of lower importance than what she wants now.

If/when she feels her life isn't working, she may make the choice to change, but until then, the hard truth to face is that she is not discontent with her life overall, you are. So no she is not motivated to change because others are discontent with who she is.

It will just drive you to madness trying to change her. You aren't responsible for fixing her, saving her from herself, making her life 'right', etc. Taking on that 'responsibility' is almost always misguided anyway. It ends up being about control, and satisfying what the 'fixer' wants.

Often the kindest thing we can do is to just let people make their own choices, so long as it's not negatively affecting us. It's different if they are bringing their choices to our doorstep (i.e., forcing their problems on us), than the case of us bringing ourselves to theirs (i.e., you do have the choice of removing yourself from her life).

shock_the_monkey wrote:... i have to say you're one of the most honest posters that i've come across. i have to really admire that. curiosity kills but is there any chance that you're on the spectrum?

Which spectrum? If you mean autistic spectrum, a lot of people have suggested it, and I've wondered myself, but whenever I take any screening test, they've all said no. Not even a possibility. Just no. I took a cognitive empathy test, and I actually scored 10 points higher than the average person. So although it would explain a lot about me, apparently I'm not.

I do, however, have ADHD and a very unique childhood which I'm sure left me with some other issues, which I'm still trying to figure out.

... i knew you'd say this. well, at least the bit about being a good example. i'm sorry that this has all blown up in your face. it can't have been a good experience. but you just have to pick yourself up, dust yourself off and start all over again. perhaps, and i'm only saying this to try to be helpful, what you need to do is find some friends with a lot more maturity. in other words, too much focus on fun mightn't be a good thing for you in the long run.

Like I said, nobody is interested in being my friend except for really messed up people. And I always lose those friendships eventually. I fail to see what the point is anymore. I never seem to get anything out of it but wasted time. I think I'm too messed up to have normal relationships with people.

Younglife wrote:As for BDSM I'm not planning on doing anything with anybody. She can do whatever the heck she wants.

... is this whole BDSM thing what you really want? i'm not wanting to judge here but it sure wouldn't appeal to me. it just sounds too contrived.[/quote]

Its the only kind of relationship that I would want to try. I need structure and rules in my relationships. And excitement. Its either that or I'm just going to stay single, because regular relationships don't appeal to me, I've never been happy in them.

xdude wrote:

Younglife wrote:But how do you talk to somebody who can legitimately not comprehend anything they're doing is a bad idea or is wrong without losing your mind?

Odds are she is someone who pursues her wants of the moment, and those wants change rapidly. Ironically that can be the draw, when we are aligned with the impulsive want of the moment, but it's an ego blow when we no longer are.

There is no changing someone who is impulsive, short-term thinking, driven by satisfying their own immediate wants. There is no deeper logic beyond that, so trying to speak about it is pointless. Oh sure, she may not always enjoy the consequences, but on a scale, she has already decided future consequences are of lower importance than what she wants now.

If/when she feels her life isn't working, she may make the choice to change, but until then, the hard truth to face is that she is not discontent with her life overall, you are. So no she is not motivated to change because others are discontent with who she is.

It will just drive you to madness trying to change her. You aren't responsible for fixing her, saving her from herself, making her life 'right', etc. Taking on that 'responsibility' is almost always misguided anyway. It ends up being about control, and satisfying what the 'fixer' wants.

Often the kindest thing we can do is to just let people make their own choices, so long as it's not negatively affecting us. It's different if they are bringing their choices to our doorstep (i.e., forcing their problems on us), than the case of us bringing ourselves to theirs (i.e., you do have the choice of removing yourself from her life).

It's not so much that I'm trying to fix her, or change her. I actually more or less like who she is. I just wish that none of this had happened and we were still friends. I miss her a lot. I'm just trying to understand what she's thinking. Why it all fell apart. I didn't want it to. It went from honeymoon stage to hatred so quickly. I couldn't stop it. It's so frustrating. I want to reverse what happened and be happy together again.

I can understand the impulsivity. My own impulsivity has ruined my life repeatedly. I moved out on my own for the first time when I was 21. Within a few months, I had gotten myself kicked out of the subdivision, all my money stolen, and pregnant with who knows who. I never even thought about the consequences of my actions one bit. The thought never crossed my mind. When I finally realized this, I realized the only way to stop myself from doing stupid things was to just seclude myself. It's a cycle. I keep myself under control for a period of time, improve a little, then get bored with how well everything is going and decide I need desperately to cause trouble again. Wash, rinse, repeat. No wonder she said we were alike. That's why we are even worse together. We encourage each other.

Okay well I suspect my ex is HPD, based on the criteria. We are older than you two, but she hasn't changed much, so based on one experience (which isn't much), expect no change.

You are male, she is female, so different things you must do for social approval.

Let me ask you a tough question. Yes, you are having angst over what happen, but is she? Or is it just you are a bad guy?

I'm female too. I am 25, she is 24.

She says she's really depressed, she was crying the other day, she said, at first, that she wanted us to be back the way we were but she didn't know how that could happen because I'd hurt her too much, but then, like I said, she completely changed her story and denied all of that, so who knows if she meant it.

I don't know what she's really feeling, she seems pretty convinced I'm just an abusive sociopath and she hasn't done anything wrong at all, although I did get her to admit to a few things which she apologized for. Doesn't seem to make her any less resentful of me.

What's maddening is I still don't really know what I did that she's so upset about. I keep asking her and she's just really vague.

Yonglife wrote:Which spectrum?

... yes, i meant the autistic spectrum.

Yonglife wrote:I do, however, have ADHD [...].

... AS and ADHD are quite closely related, as far as i know.

Yonnglife wrote:Like I said, nobody is interested in being my friend except for really messed up people. And I always lose those friendships eventually. I fail to see what the point is anymore. I never seem to get anything out of it but wasted time. I think I'm too messed up to have normal relationships with people.

... i think you're only comfortable with a situation when you feel you're in control of that situation. this, ultimately, leads you into conflict with others, as they resist your control of them. i'm grasping a little at straws here, however, this reminds me of PDA (pathological demand avoidance), which is on the autistic spectrum.

you're welcome to post in the AS forum. i'm not fussy. there isn't a 'keep out' sign for non-AS people.

Younglife wrote:I need structure and rules in my relationships.

... you're basically saying that you experience the world as being un-safe. and it can be. but not always.

Okay Younglife,

I mis-understood that, thanks for the clarification, but it still up to her to choose.

My ex (probable) HPD type engaged in whatever emotion that was the biggest win in terms of attention/approval from others (which is what the PD is about), and so I could be that at times, or someone else could, it didn't matter who. HPD is about addiction to attention (and the associated self-esteem boost). She had no sense of loyalty to anyone beyond that fix.

But it was not my job to 'fix' her or yours to fix her either.

Did you really do anything wrong anyway, or she is just engaging in victim think, which some people do, because they get something out of it? Now I am martyr, and other people will come to my rescue, etc?

shock_the_monkey wrote:

Yonglife wrote:Which spectrum?

... yes, i meant the autistic spectrum.

Yonglife wrote:I do, however, have ADHD [...].

... AS and ADHD are quite closely related, as far as i know.

Yonnglife wrote:Like I said, nobody is interested in being my friend except for really messed up people. And I always lose those friendships eventually. I fail to see what the point is anymore. I never seem to get anything out of it but wasted time. I think I'm too messed up to have normal relationships with people.

... i think you're only comfortable with a situation when you feel you're in control of that situation. this, ultimately, leads you into conflict with others, as they resist your control of them. i'm grasping a little at straws here, however, this reminds me of PDA (pathological demand avoidance), which is on the autistic spectrum.

you're welcome to post in the AS forum. i'm not fussy. there isn't a 'keep out' sign for non-AS people.

Younglife wrote:I need structure and rules in my relationships.

... you're basically saying that you experience the world as being un-safe. and it can be. but not always.

That's fascinating, thanks.

I'm saying that I don't like uncertainty in my relationships. I like order, and I like knowing that my boundaries won't be crossed. I don't just do it for romantic relationships, but with my family, too. I like to know what is expected of me and that they will also follow the rules. Its those unwritten rules people follow that say don't mess with me and I won't screw you over. I just like them to be more clearly stated so everybody is on the same page. Teamwork is more efficient if there is a leader and a follower. You can't both follow or you will go in circles. You can't both lead or you will go in opposite directions. I prefer to lead, and I like to make that clear from the beginning, so there's no power struggle later. Either I'm a loner or a leader, but I'm not a team player, I dont like to follow. If I'm going to have a relationship, it's going to be on my terms, or I'd rather not have one at all. I don't see any point in a relationship if I don't get anything out of it, or if I have to compromise for somebody else. I guess I'm looking for somebody to assist me and make my life more interesting. But I can easily go it alone if I have to.

Xdude, I don't really think I did anything wrong. I arguably made a few minor mistakes, which I'm pretty sure I detailed in the first post. Nothing intentional and nothing malicious. She was over it within minutes and we were fine for a week after that. That's not why she's upset anyway, but that's what she uses as an excuse to be mad at me, when really I think she was just using me as an excuse to get more attention and when it meant actually paying attention to me and keeping her end of the relationship up, she decided to bail rather than take responsibility, and blame me for everything. I asked her to stop talking so much at the munch, and that really upset her. Everybody was shushing her. She still doesn't believe it. She caused a big scene, I let it go, we were fine for a week. Then I brought it up again and told her I wanted her to please don't cause scenes in public like that anymore, if we are arguing, let's do it in private from now on, and told her we needed to talk about setting some rules in the relationship, and she just refused to accept any of it, eventually leading to our breakup.

I definitely think she is just playing the victim. I didn't do anything awful. All I did was tell her we needed to talk about the relationship.

Yes of course, we all make minor mistakes, all of us are human, but I also guess your perception is correct. You really didn't do anything worthy of such an extreme reaction.

With PDs, like HPD, you can drive yourself insane trying to figure out what you did wrong that warrants such an extreme reaction, except you didn't do anything that malicious or even extreme, because you really didn't. Meanwhile, the person with the PD isn't questioning their perception. They are absolutely sure it's you, someone else, never them.

xdude wrote:Yes of course, we all make minor mistakes, all of us are human, but I also guess your perception is correct. You really didn't do anything worthy of such an extreme reaction.

With PDs, like HPD, you can drive yourself insane trying to figure out what you did wrong that warrants such an extreme reaction, except you didn't do anything that malicious or even extreme, because you really didn't. Meanwhile, the person with the PD isn't questioning their perception. They are absolutely sure it's you, someone else, never them.

Yes, you're correct about that.

I learned that about my dad ages ago. I seem to be the only one in my family who really gets it, while everybody else is still trying futilely to please him, and I always wonder why they try so hard when they should know by now he can't be pleased, no matter what you do.

I even got her to see why I did the things I did, and she even apologized for some of the things she did, but that's as good as it gets as far as I can see. She still believes deep down that I'm bad, even though she can't give me a reason for why she feels that way about me. I'm guessing it's just because I made her feel bad, and in her mind that automatically means I must have done something wrong.

I have to let it go. I need to refocus my life on my priorities right now. Some day I hope she can forgive me for whatever she thinks I did, but if not, maybe it's for the best.

Younglife wrote:I'm saying that I don't like uncertainty in my relationships. I like order, and I like knowing that my boundaries won't be crossed. I don't just do it for romantic relationships, but with my family, too. I like to know what is expected of me and that they will also follow the rules. Its those unwritten rules people follow that say don't mess with me and I won't screw you over. I just like them to be more clearly stated so everybody is on the same page. Teamwork is more efficient if there is a leader and a follower. You can't both follow or you will go in circles. You can't both lead or you will go in opposite directions. I prefer to lead, and I like to make that clear from the beginning, so there's no power struggle later. Either I'm a loner or a leader, but I'm not a team player, I dont like to follow. If I'm going to have a relationship, it's going to be on my terms, or I'd rather not have one at all. I don't see any point in a relationship if I don't get anything out of it, or if I have to compromise for somebody else. I guess I'm looking for somebody to assist me and make my life more interesting. But I can easily go it alone if I have to.

... i'm going to stick to my guns here and say again that i think your need for control is driving people away, including your ex-girlfriend.

what you seem to want might be best described as a slave - someone you can own. i can't imagine many people being up for that.

any worthwhile relationship has two qualities: mutual admiration and respect. you just seem to want respect for yourself. to me, you do seem to be selling yourself, and whoever you might be in a relationship with, rather, if not very, short.

now, i'll digress a little. the love of my life was my cat. and, when i say my cat, well, she wasn't really. she used to live across the road. i'd pass her on my way to work, bend down and stroke her. she took to following me home. she then took to staying at my home. one evening, her owner came over and protested about her always being at my home, grabbed her and carted her off. she was back bright and early the next morning. her owner never tried that again. i know that she loved me. and i'm pretty sure she knew that i loved her. the only thing i ever made her do that she disliked was getting in her cat box if i took her anywhere in the car. and i only did that after a certain episode with the police. apart from that, i let her do pretty much as she pleased. like i said, she was the love of my life, and i'll never forget her.