Idealization as a symptom

by **shanzeek** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:47 pm

I like to be alone. This is why also i think i am not borderline. I am introverted. I love it. But i hate to feel lonely. And i can feel lonely even with people. I love when people are clingy but other times i do have freaked out and said back off.
If you disappear on me i am going to devalue you. Younger I would burn bridges. But i can disappear too from others when i am depressed.i had disappeared in the past.
I am so whatever and confusing. Like i am clingy but i am the opposite of clingy too.
I need a lot of reassurance and clinginess to be attracted,but also lack of intimacy attracts me because i feel safer.. On the other hand i remember i freaked out when guys were clingy and run but i remember i devalued guys that weren't clingy enough.omg.OMG.
With friendships i am way better.

A lot of this sounds familiar.
I actually think I'm pretty immune to love-bombing as it scares me and I usually just cut it in the root. My ex and I were friends first so I guess that's the reason I didn't escape. All the other guys were emotionally unavailable one way or the other (I think one was a bit autistic, not sure) and whenever I felt they weren't I was the one to leave first. Exactly like you said - lack of intimacy or emotional availability is what makes me feel safe and so I stay and then start displaying codependent traits. :I

-- Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:19 pm --

I don't chase people though who push me away i don't want them. I will most probably devalue them. While a lot of borderlines feel like they chase them.

I never do too, but in this last relationship I did a lot of stupid things I never before thought I was capable of. :roll:

It felt like a never-ending game of vanity and immaturity.

Yep. After he was done with idealization it pretty much turned to a battlefield, he did switch a lot to re-idealization (maybe he has some BPD traits as this is not really common for a pwNPD) but with every switch the battlefield part would became more sadistic and cruel (I think he's a malignant narcissist), it was just too much to deal with in the end. I like games but this stopped being a game long time ago. Bah.

by **julllia** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:09 pm

Same are you sure he is not borderline. Same.is strange how much i relate with you sometimes lol.
At first the triggering was love and then it was revenge and anger. That was still very addictive though. i hated to see him and i hated if i don't. There were other problems too though, it wasn't that. But it goes from i would die without you to is painful to see you i can't deal i am so angry

-- Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:10 pm --

On my part was that it was painful.how i felt

by **shanzeek** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:41 pm

julllia wrote:Same are you sure he is not borderline. Same.is strange how much i relate with you sometimes lol.

I can't know for sure as he would rather die than go see a therapist, he was indirectly blackmailing me into not taking antidepressants because "it's the easy way out" and "I should be better than that". I think he was just dissatisfied with lack of emotional reaction coming from my side while medicated. :roll:

He describes himself as "nrcissistic sadist with long years of carefully studied sociopathic behaviour behind him". He often insisted on being a sociopath, but whenever we were in contact with other sociopaths he was way too easily manipulated and triggered by them, also sociopaths are not supply-driven the way he was and their egos are not nearly as fragile. I think I get along with sociopaths are borderlines just fine, narcissists mostly drive me crazy unless highly self-aware. :lol:

by **Quoth** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:53 am

shanzeek wrote:I never actually got that it was your mother you were talking about when saying "primary abuser"..
I understand the denial part, most of the time I picture my father in my head as a decent parent who wanted only best but whenever I try digging through my childhood I find that I've supressed a great part of it and I have a strong urge to distance myself from him today. He mostly keeps contact with my sister.

well by primary I mean longest term, the big pain stuff is the doing of the medical profession mostly. Cases like my own don't happen when one thing goes wrong but when a whole collection of things goes wrong. My mother is the "and there was some emotional and physical abuse" before and after the fact. It's my primary gripe with the psychologists, that they always seem determined to focus on the extreme part which, all things considered, I handled pretty well. It might have the been break point but mostly it just exacerbated psychological problems that were already there to some degree.
Unlike yourself I still have an element of codependency with my mother, though I try to keep contact as limited as possible. Our last phone conversation consisted of her ranting at me for 90 minutes while I repeated the phrase "can I speak to dad please..." over and over. I suspect the fact that I'm an only child meant that I bore more of the brunt of it, though given that she used to take out her issues with my father on me that is perhaps not the case.

Btw, my first impression with this guy - I genuinely thought he was a psychopath but it didn't take long before I realized I couldn't have been more wrong.

well for what it's worth not all trauma survivors are nice, I've met a couple who would make a psychopath look like the soft option.

I get to find out tomorrow afternoon, Faiqs and I are gonna be driving half the length of the country after a 9 month wait to see him, so if all he has to say for himself is "hmmm, it's complicated...." (which seems to be the psychologist's go to phrase), abrupt may very well become curt.

And? (feel not obliged to answer this if you think if you think it's too private to share)

its was an "it's complicated..." sort of answer.
It's a clear no to AsPD. I knew about his relatively in depth conversations with my main psychologist so I already knew that he suspected OCPD and PPD to be involved. PPD is apparently the most obviously dominant and is often accompanied by either OCPD proper or the associated traits. There is either BPD or something similar but sub-clinical operating underneath that, which I am told is not so common.

His main point seemed to be that I could be diagnosed with all three or I could be diagnosed with none of them. EPCACE (the old term for C-PTSD) is essentially a personality disorder hybridised with a trauma disorder and could theoretically cover most of these behaviours. From a treatment point of view, patients regularly fit anywhere between 2-5 personality disorders and in each case it's all about working with the individual personality rather than worrying too much about labels. He also pointed out that the number of labels or traits didn't mean more disordered just more complex and difficult to treat with those who display just one PD often representing some of the most outwardly severe cases. He did agree that the absolute focus on one extreme event while neglecting the rest was unproductive.

He went on about DID for quite a while, which is not something I know a lot about. This was in regards to the use of created personalities in places where emotional expression was necessary.

It's still something of a jumble at the moment. It'll take a little while to properly process what was said. After the wait and the 4hr drive either way, it was something of an anti-climax.

by **julllia** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:32 am

@shazneek.
so i wonder if you talk to him straghtforward of what is the problem and how you feel etc what would happen.did you ever ? what happened? i feel i don't express all my feelings and if i do nothing will really change generally.
if he takes supply from your reactions he won't stop most probably. i take reassurance when i can't express how i feel/no emotional intimacy. i feel that maybe if there was emotional intimacy i wouldn't need it,does it make sence what i am saying?
i mean how nice is to talk to someone and both try to fix the problem and stop hurting each other.
but other times you talk to people and they blame shift or say i care and nothing changes at all for example.
or other times you can't even express how you feel because you are afraid

-- Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:37 am --

this is not very serious. but i do feel too with the borderline or the covert npd it would be the most triggering. and not with the sociopath lol

by **julllia** » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:06 am

Quoth wrote:
shanzeek wrote:Got burned by a BPD recently?

Not since I was 16.

Could've sworn you had a slightly less negative view on BPD not even month ago.
So the point earlier in this thread when I pointed out the clinically non existent empathy of BPD or it's links to child abuse. I guess I could have got into munchausen's or other issues with malingering...

I'm not saying all pwBPD are bad now.

If someone says to me "Nigerians are all lovely people"
And I respond "That isn't my experience"
It doesn't necessarily follow I don't like all Nigerians or that there aren't nice Nigerians, just that I think their statement is an over simplification which runs contrary to my own experience.

Particularly if I prefaced my statement with the phrase "I can't help wondering if this isn't splitting on African nations" and ended it with "Which is not to say there aren't nice people from Nigeria, just that there is clearly substantial variation within each of the African nationalities". As I did here for BPD.

This really is not something I should need to explain

I'm getting a very strong NPD vibe from you
No, I'm saying something you don't like and so you're labelling me again. Julllia telling people they have no empathy because they say something she doesn't like happens so often I'm just going to ignore it.

I have noticed though Shanz if I present you with an idealised view you respond nicely and if I present an unadorned truth you respond negatively.

That proclivity to grasp the pretty lie and reject the ugly truth is the reason why some people are vulnerable the cluster b manipulation and others are not.

but you also shift so often from one attitude/mode to another that I'm genuinely confused here.
I'm being consistent here.
People are defined by the things they do. I'm pretty sure I've said that before given I'm beginning to feel like a stuck record.
If I was to judge a person on the basis of their disorder, race, disability, sex, religion etc rather than the things they do and the choices they make I would be no different froma common bigot. Nor does the fact that many other people behave this way make it any more acceptable.

There is a higher statistical correlation between people with C-PTSD becoming abusers than there is with any personality disorder. Some think as many as 1 in every 3 go on to become an abuser, but that also means that 2 out of 3 don't. I'm not blind to the fact that my own disorder has a correlation with abuse but I'm not about to accept that being abused predetermines more abuse because it simply isn't true.
Abuse is a choice, not a predetermined outcome.

If I am assaulted by a British Muslim (which I have been), I'm pretty sure it happened because he was a person who chooses to harm others, not because of the name he uses for god.

The moment you try to label any group of people as all good or all bad, splitting is taking place. If you're struggling with the fact that I have some opinions you like and others you don't, or that sometimes I'm friendly and other times I'm cranky, or that I have both good thoughts and bad thoughts and can't incorporate it into an impression of a complex multi-faceted individual (as most people are) then perhaps you need to look into that.

I'm not sure how much more static I can make my position on Disorders and stigma.

Which one you'd want it to be?
None for preference, I'd quite like a do over button which involved a life with less physical pain. However since none of us can control the hand we are dealt only the way we play it, I would like an accurate diagnosis so I can learn to manage it and make the person I am a little less disparate from the person I feel I should be.

I hope that clarifies the point I was attempting to make (unsuccessfully it seems).

i saw that video and i lol'd :lol:

at 17:55
https://youtu.be/vcWvJmWIlo0?t=17m55s

i am not diagoned i don't want that label :lol:

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