Outing A BPD or not?

xdude wrote:Hey mister37,

Something that may help you to adjust, and go easier on yourself -

An imperfect analogy, but think of someone who grew up in a wealthy family, who has a problem with over-spending, but so long as the the family is bailing them out, providing funds, what is their motivation to change? It's working. They get what they want and perhaps never strongly considered the 'what-if' scenarios, like what if I'm cut off? Besides even if they do, still what is the motivation to stop now?

The point of the analogy though is to help you adjust your own thinking. That drive to bail her out, and the what-if scenarios you are playing out on her behalf (e.g., what if ... her life turns into a downhill mess ... whatever scenarios you think are going to happen, but haven't really happened yet). The thinking and feelings these thoughts arouse can feel very intense, for you, but here is the most important what-if to ask -

What if, she simply does not (yet) feel any strong want to change because her life is effectively working for her as-is now?

The irony is that though we strongly believe we have good intentions, more support can just end up being more of the very reason a person does not want to change. Still, when that is what the relationship is based on, imbalanced give & take, it is hard to stop. For the excessive giver/supporter/fixer, it's the only role they know, and often there is another fear at play, 'if I don't then someone else will'. That can true too, but hopefully you see that for what it is. Imbalanced give/take is unhealthy from day one, and again, often just ends up back-firing. The one being excessively supported ends up coming to expect more and more, and less and less appreciative.

It's definitely time for you to focus on what you need and want going forward in life. It's good for you, and actually it is better for her too.

Hi.

I kinda get your point.
I've never had contact with a BPD person. I fell for her very strong.
She would listen to me and my stories, This made me bond with her even more.
I indeed need to work on myself. This was a very strong lesson in life. I don't blame her, I don't blame me. It is indeed better for her if I am not pushing her in to getting help. I still long for her and her company. Kinda normal I guess. The complexity of the story does not make it easier.
I have a lot on my plate now. Slowly moving forward. Finding myself, working on myself, setting goals. It is a long way. I keep reading, trying to understand why things are what they are now.

I realize I need time to heal, time to reflect on what is going on. Try to let her go. It is consuming me and my thoughts for the moment. I try to be with friends, try to go out and keep myself busy. It is hard. But also exciting to find out all the things she triggered in me.

I actually awoke from a long life of being on my own. I am a very shy guy. Lost my dad when i was a young child. I hated being in the spotlight. I never liked going out and had a big complex due to the fact I was overweight. She made It all trigger. I am really coming alive. My complex is taking leaps ahead. I am going forward and I am doing stuff I would never do A year ago. My friends are really happy to see me coming out of my shell. They see a new person. I would very much like to see this continue in the future. But I can not do this alone, the body I can deal with. But my mind is still with her. I can not help it. That is why I really look forward to the sessions with the shrink and kini.
Next week I start my 2nd session. It has been 3 weeks now. I do not like that. I need sessions on weekly basis I think. I have to much time now to think. Without real support. I will mention that to the shrink. See what he thinks. Hopefully I can do more sessions. I like talking to friends about this. But they are friends, not doctors. They do not need to hear my pain all the time. And this is all I talk about for the last year. And now It is at A climax. So I need it to stop. Think about myself. Move on. It drains me and my friends. I would like to keep them. So this forum is a great place to vent. thank you for the input.

Small update:

I am trying to move on. This comes with ups 'n downs. From being very depressed one day to very angry the next. Last week I was on FB, not really searching. But came across her parents FB. And indeed... I saw a picture of the happy couple and family. Kinda took a punch on that one. But the day after I was okay. (shrink wants pics of her, so it's not that I will not be confronted with it)

Now the last weeks, she comes near me during breaks. Always (2-3 times a week) sitting near me. Yesterday I sat alone outside, no one around. just having a smoke, listening to music. When I was ready to start work again. Turned around.. she was sitting behind me. (15 feet) No one else. Just her and me outside.

Today work was done, all the people standing in line to punch out. She walks in... singing " are you lonesome tonight"... co workers laugh a bit... "yeah my bf was out of town, he is coming tonight"

Is this hoovering? All these weeks, sitting near me, mimicking my sitting positions, now the singing... She does not have feelings for me. Why does she do this? Missing my attention? I thought hoover was more for ex bf or gf kinda stuff. But to do this for someone you don't have feelings for?

I was pissed. really pissed. She did not see that. But I had to vent on the way home. Screamed and shouted in my car like a nutjob Release the demons


Knowing I told her 2 months ago, please be a bit discreet. I am hurting.

wth!

What do you guys make out of this?

Hey mister37,

Just from my own experience (so not fact) -

It's going to be difficult for you to let go of the emotions you've attributed to her, and likewise to sort out how you ended up going that route in the first place.

She has told you she has BPD, and so I want to warn you, what you see is not necessarily what you get. Some with BPD may appear to be lost lambs, mimic others, sometimes appear almost theatrical in expression, but that can just be a persona, to keep her deeper issues under wraps in public. Habit, because it works, just as it tugged at your primal emotions.

Okay so I don't know who she really is around someone she is close with, but you don't either. If it helps you to burst the bubble, it may help you to ponder the possibility that she could also be any of the following in any combination with someone she becomes emotionally involved with -

Constantly depressed, or angry
Emotionally unstable
Highly dramatic
Test test test
Plays jealousy games
Consciously or unconsciously devalues

Point being, whatever you are imagining it is going to be like, it could also be far more painful and difficult than anything you can/have imagined so far.

I have nothing constructive to add then to say xdude's post above can not be emphasized enough. And not just for your thread mister37, but should be read by most people who have or are, in a relationship with someone who may have a PD.

What he says is the "reality", that breaks the "illusion." It is a painful thing to see and recognize, but in my opinion, it is truth. I have experienced first hand what he writes. And I can assure you, you will visit some dark places. You may also begin to see changes in yourself, changes that you really do not want to see.

Certain people have a heightened sensitivity to someone who has a PD. The impact is much, much greater. Some can simply walk away, but for others, there can be some lasting affects. At least for awhile. Take this chance and forge a new path for yourself.

Yea, and if anyone has BPD, is reading this, what I wrote above is probably triggering, but since I struggle with cluster B issues too, a reminder that this is the SOF&F forum, and what is written here is weighed toward the SOs.

mister37,

I know you are struggling with letting go of how you feel for her, and so this is all just words. Words almost nobody takes to heart until/if they've lived it, but you've already written about a glimpse into what is to come (in your first post). Essentially what you wrote is -

1.) She was content with you hanging out to fix her house (key being focus on what she wanted).
2.) Being nice, kind, supportive, is of no emotional interest to her (correct!)

That's now, but if anything since seems disrespectful/disinterested in your feelings, your needs/wants, you haven't yet seen how far that self-interest can go. Really, not even close.

Words, and it's understandable a part of you wants to ignore them, and keep looking for the best, but that 'best' is what you want, and there is nothing wrong with having wants, but do yourself a favor if you can - remind yourself (make it your mantra), 'I love my image of her, what I want her to be, I don't love her'

Trying to save you a ton of grief here

Thx for the reply guys.

Oh I know how I ended up with her. I know what I was doing. She told me early on that she was BPD.
I was just to "high" on love.. I did not bother to actually look deeper what BPD included.
This was a big mistake on my part. I was so happy I could help her. I did not see the end coming.
It dropped hard! My mind is playing tricks on me. She could be very well just be acting "normal" and I could be seeing things because I still am very hung up on her.

The past year she had a lot on her mind, buying a house, feeling very depressed. Losing all her friends splitting them. I was the only one left. I was new in her life. If i could only let go of my feelings and just be friends. I would love to motivate her like I did in the past months. She liked that. The work in the house was really hard on her, she saw the end coming, I heard her say she would take on a job for the weekends. To get some extra cash. I know this is just so she would not be alone. I think she kinda splitted me while I was helping her. And as soon the house was done she would let me go. She actually told me that she can not hang out with me and do stuff like going to the beach and walking the dog.. She could not be chilling with me and watch a movie or something.

Things I've seen with her include,
driving recklessly, driving with suspended license,

This came down hard. We spend all that time together. Why would it change.
Well she now has what she wanted. Me out of her life, and a new lover. She acts cold now. Not a single word to me. No hello, no how are you... just commenting to our co workers about new stuff in her house and her lover. Anything a "normal" person would do I guess. I cant blame her. Not in her condition. It is all me. I should not have fallen for her. But who am I... Just a simple dude.. cant help falling in love.

As far as I know, she is still in the love bombing stage. And while he is out of town she can be herself. Alone at home. She could actually hold on to him like this for a very very long time. I think it would be different if he would be there all the time. Now she can "recharge" and act all happy when he is home.

I have no clue what the hardest part is,
Me being rejected and never having a chance.
Knowing she is now with that dude in the house I did all the work.
Knowing this dude is more successful in life than me. a good job, more money, nice car, kids.
All the stuff I was dreaming about for all these years.
Knowing she has a lack of empathy and could very well be happy without me in her life.
Haha.. all these questions...

On the other hand.
I am free. I can rebuild my own life.
I am getting in shape. Rebuilding self-esteem. Slowly starting to be more happy at the job, and interacting more with co workers.
getting compliments on my weight loss, and losing my complex, shame about the weight issue.
I know I did not leave my wife and kids for a lady. I did not cheat. I am a good guy.
Alone and damn heartbroken..but a good guy! And she knows it!
For all I know she would have said yes to me and break it off after a month.. could be more painful.. who knows..

I am just rambling on.. Like all the other dudes that have been in my situation.
I keep reading about BPD... no idea why but it calms me down.
I keep having thoughts that she will break up with him.. and then I keep thinking.. dude! SHE does not have feelings for you! Why do you think that will change! Silly me

Also... The ex of the dude is distant family of me. I keep hearing she is crying all day. She is just been told he does not love her anymore. She still does not know where he is. He does not have the balls to say where he is and who he is with.

Anyway..I could talk for hours.
tmrw is another day.
Thx guys! really.. thx!

xdude wrote:Yea, and if anyone has BPD, is reading this, what I wrote above is probably triggering, but since I struggle with cluster B issues too, a reminder that this is the SOF&F forum, and what is written here is weighed toward the SOs.

mister37,

I know you are struggling with letting go of how you feel for her, and so this is all just words. Words almost nobody takes to heart until/if they've lived it, but you've already written about a glimpse into what is to come (in your first post). Essentially what you wrote is -

1.) She was content with you hanging out to fix her house (key being focus on what she wanted).
2.) Being nice, kind, supportive, is of no emotional interest to her (correct!)

That's now, but if anything since seems disrespectful/disinterested in your feelings, your needs/wants, you haven't yet seen how far that self-interest can go. Really, not even close.

Words, and it's understandable a part of you wants to ignore them, and keep looking for the best, but that 'best' is what you want, and there is nothing wrong with having wants, but do yourself a favor if you can - remind yourself (make it your mantra), 'I love my image of her, what I want her to be, I don't love her'

Trying to save you a ton of grief here

I know man I know.
I know she would probably be bad for me. The way I feel now is pure horror.
Nothing I did was really good for her. All the sweet things. She never felt it.
She probably never will. Maybe..maybe if she would actually keep doing her therapy with full interest. Wanting to get better. Really really devoting herself.

I guess I really wanted a shot with her. A relationship. I hoped and hoped for a year. In a way..BIG way I am indeed selfish. I think that is part of the codependency... Working on that now! I need to let go... but indeed.. words are just words.. Time will tell...

Update:

I told the sister what was on my mind.
I was sick of keeping all this to myself.
I told about the cheating guy, the family he left behind, I told why I was feeling like this, I told about codependency.
I tried My best to inform her I am not a crazy person. Al the hurt and obsessing is kinda "normal" for me now. I told her If they really want It to work, the girl needs to be honest, and inform him so they can work on the relationship with professional help.
I did not tell her the word borderline.

She was not to happy. She told me I need to move on, that I am to obsessed.
I am the one wanting to hurt her, I am the one that does not want to move on.
She was going on the offensive. "What is you're big secret"... so i kinda snapped.
I told her borderline. She replied: "So what?"
"We know she has this". WTF I've been giving hints all this time.. helping them to not take it personal. "Are you happy now? Post it on FB!!" "you are pathetic" "don't you feel shame for a grown man?" "get a life"

I never told the family, or her friends. Just my close friends, and the shrink.
She did not want to hear me out. You told enough! I don't want any more stories, you have been telling me stuff for 3 months now... "she has no feelings for you, case closed. You should have left."

After all this time, All the things I clearly explained, the sister does not get it.
She just keeps believing I want to hurt her, that I want to expose her, I watch to many movies.

This family is very weird. "we did what we could for her"
"she is now doing better" "we sometimes help people and get nothing in return" (referring me helping her in the house) "when I am going to buy a house, the family is not going to help me either" What kind of family is this??

I stopped the conversation. I ended with an apology, I was only trying to help.
I told her I will keep my conclusions, and stick to the theory I know about the situation.
She will see what will happen in the future. I will go on with my pathetic life.

So far for empathy and understanding.
I understand she is pissed at me, this is indeed obsessive on my part. But If the sister is not willing to listen and really take a look to all the info I have...well... that's it then.
I really feel lifted now. I no longer have that weight on my shoulders.
I hope I can move on a little faster now.

It could be, that I will hear the girl again on the job. If the sister is going to tell I spoke again..
things might get tense..

Anyway, I did what I could, I told what I wanted. If this family want to live a fairy tale thinking all is good now, she is happy... well... good luck I guess. I hope she actually is getting better!
I hope she keeps doing the therapy, I hope the dude will stick to her and help in all he can.

but most of all.. I hope I will get over this!

What do you think?

Hey mister...

I think the answer here is very simple. It is time for you to move on. You are never going to get buy in from the family. She is flesh and blood and you are an outsider. While this does not excuse her for hurting others, they just have no interest in getting involved. As an adult she makes her own choices and other members of the family can not really be held accountable for that. Even if someone in that family was the cause of her BPD, it really is not your place to challenge any of it.

And chances are it is very uncomfortable for them. Think about if someone approached you about a sibling? What kind of reaction would you have?

In addition, I think you need to realize that you are now violating their boundaries a bit. It is time to let it be and move on with your life. Nothing good is going to come out of this for you, imo.
Your path to healing lies within your control. You do not need anyone else. Not her or their family. There is nothing to do here but to take care of you.

mark1958 wrote:Hey mister...

I think the answer here is very simple. It is time for you to move on. You are never going to get buy in from the family. She is flesh and blood and you are an outsider. While this does not excuse her for hurting others, they just have no interest in getting involved. As an adult she makes her own choices and other members of the family can not really be held accountable for that. Even if someone in that family was the cause of her BPD, it really is not your place to challenge any of it.

And chances are it is very uncomfortable for them. Think about if someone approached you about a sibling? What kind of reaction would you have?

In addition, I think you need to realize that you are now violating their boundaries a bit. It is time to let it be and move on with your life. Nothing good is going to come out of this for you, imo.
Your path to healing lies within your control. You do not need anyone else. Not her or their family. There is nothing to do here but to take care of you.

Indeed. I am thinking the same as you.
They can do whatever they want with my input now. If they want to help her, well..the door is open, or more open... I really wanted someone close to her to get my point. She does not get it..yet. Moving on... well.. hoping I can move on!!
Anyway. thx for the input guys!