Somewhat complex issue for me.

Hi all. I was doing a search on google for information on something. I'm what I'd like to call a 'psychology enthusiast.' I'm usually very good with understanding things, but as I said..I'm just an enthusiast. So I could really use some help/opinions of others.

A little bit about me. I'm a 21 year old male in Canada. I've never smoked, never drank, never used drugs. I'm not hardcore religious, but I believe in God and spirituality. I've never had sex. I don't believe in sex before marriage. I've never kissed a girl. I've never even dated a girl before. Scary..right? Probably some ugly guy.

No, i'm not ugly. And I've been asked out by many girls before. I've always just declined, however. I'm one of those hopeless romantics who believes that there are some people you meet...that when you meet them, right away there is a strong attraction between the 2 of you. I've had only 2 people I've ever felt this way about. The last one was about 5 years ago.

After finishing highschool, I did first year of university, then dropped out due to family issues, moving/etc...I started up a business from home in a new city, knowing no one. So I didn't have much social contact asides from chatting with friends online. A year ago, I closed that up, picked up a part time job, and started saving for University. Thanks for reading the intro. Now here is where my problem begins.

In orientation for my job, I saw a girl. I'm a little too shy to stare at a stranger, but I couldn't help myself from taking looks every few minutes. I thought she was 18 or 19 and out of highschool. So...nothing happens there, because she was there with her boyfriend.

On the job, I work administration, and she's a cashier. So I spend a lot of time going and bagging for her (even though we have people who are supposed to do it). Just so we can talk. Anyway, about 1 month of working together like this..i start to realize that as soon as I leave work with her, and I come home, I feel sick in my stomache. When I sleep at night, it's with the thought of her in my head. Going to work everyday, I look forward to the next time she's in at the same time that I am. It's just one of those crazy attractions.

Because of her, I did a lot to improve myself, hoping that it would impress her. I joined a gym and lost 24 pounds in 2 months (I gained about 50 pounds after dropping out of university), and I'm still going. So I'm looking good again. Thinking maybe she wasn't a fan of black hair...I lightened my colour to a dark brown. When I heard she crashed her car and couldn't get a new one, I got my own car, started paying for my insurance, just incase something ever happened between us, so that I would be able to let her drive my car. Up till now I'd been using a car that my dad bought for me, and paid for the insurance on. I also signed back up for university this year, because I know if there's ever a chance that she'd go out with me, I'd be someone who is at least on the right path heading into the future.

She's just a girl that makes me smile when I see her. When I see her smile..it just feels like heaven. I want to be with her, and be there for her when she needs it. But there are a few problems that I'm faced with right now. One of the problems, is that it turns out she's almost 5 years younger than me. Yes..I'm 21, and she's 16. So this has me a bit worried. My parents have a 5 year difference, and so do lots of people I know. But I can't help but feel a little awkward about this. As I said, I'm not after her for sex, or anything sexual at all. So in that sense it's ok. But it's just weird for me.

Her friend apparently picked up on the fact that I like her. She told me that she's too young for me. So that didn't help with my confidence either. So that right there is Major Issue #1 for me:

- As a 21 year old male who has never gone out with a girl before, and is 'NOT' looking for Sex, is it wrong to be pursuing a 16 year old girl? If yes, then what should I do? I've never felt this way before. It's helped me improve every aspect of my life, and I feel like I would break if I just gave up hope.

Now we move on to problem #2. The girl...She broke up with her boyfriend 3 weeks ago. Right after it happened, the guy is going around kissing girls, arms around other girls/etc...showing no sign of sadness from the breakup. That right there, in my mind, is a clear cut sign that he never truly loved her. Infact, before she had told me she had broken up, I had known/felt that they had, after seeing the way the guy was acting. 1 week after the breakup, they get back together again. And he asks her to have sex with him. That was sign number 2 that he really didn't care about her, and only wants sex. But am I wrong in this? Please give me input.

At first I didn't want to say anything to her. I thought it was just my natural jealousy, and it probably is in part. But after talking to some of the other people who go to her school, they all told me the same thing about the guy and the things he does. He doesvn't have a good reputation. Just FYI...the reason they broke up was because he was jealous of a close relationship between her and a male friend of hers, who is paralyzed in one arm. He smashes the girls cellphone, and beats up the friend with the paralyzed arm.

I have to tell you that from all the things I've seen/heard about this guy, he is literally filth. So I confronted the girl about it yesterday. We talk for 30 minutes. I ask her to name something she sees in him. And if she knows about the things he's done. The only thing she was able to say was: "I have fun with him." She never once said she loved him, and could never tell me that he loved/cared for her.

Out of the whole conversation, there was only one part of it that made any bit of psychological sence. She said at one point:

"I haven't had much luck with relationships. This one is 100% better than my last one."

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a fairly common problem. The girl had previous abusive/controlling boyfriends (what her friends told me afterwards). She has a pretty bad boyfriend now, but because he doesn't beat her..it's still better than what she's had before. So she's settling for it, fearing that any future relationships might me similar to her old one.

So that's problem #2 for me.

- What is the best way, psychologically, to present her with this information. Keep in mind that people build walls to protect themselves, and they block out most the things that they don't want to hear. Her friends tell me they've tried talking to her about it, and she's gotten angry with them everytime they had mentioned it. While I was talking to her, however, she was very nice, listened well, and was smiling the whole time. So I'm not sure...do I have some form of advantage on presenting the information to her?

I want her to understand that there are peopel much better than him for her. I need her to realize that, and to give up on that scumbag of a boyfriend she has right now. And I don't want to come out and say "Go out with me instead" because I still don't know how she feels. If she also feels that I'm too old for her, then that would just create a very uncomfortable and awkward situation.

I'm not a bad guy. Really I'm not. I like talking. I like listening. And the only thing I ever dream of when I dream of her, is seeing her smile, and being there for her when she needs me. I grew up in a house where my Dad is always at work, and I only had my mother and sister around. So I talked to them. It's also the reason why I'm more comfortable talking to girls than to guys. But please, give me your input on this. A quick recap of the issues:

- I'm 21, she's 16. I'm not looking for sex. Is this still wrong?
- What's the best way to tell her to drop her scumbag boyfriend?
- What's your take on this whole situation? Too messy? If so, what can I do? The heart wants what the heart wants. I can't help it.

All I want...is to Love her. I've even written some poems, and songs (which I've actually recorded). Just to help myself express my feelings.

Thanks for taking the time to read this long post. I look forward to your input.

You're missing the problem entirely, imo. The problem isn't the age difference, so much as the "life" difference. The reason she doesn't care if she's going out with an idiot is because she's only 16; i.e. he's not permanent. Nothing is permanent for her right now. She's right; it's okay to go out with people just because you have fun with them, at her age. She's not looking to marry the guy.

You, on the other hand, are so ready for a permanent relationship. You want to be wildly in love with some girl you can adore and think is all God's heaven wrapped up in one human being. But, for whatever reason, you have absolutely no self-esteem whatsoever. I don't know why this is, but it's very clear: You've changed an incredible amount about yourself, put serious work into pleasing a person who you have no relationship with at all, really. You don't even know if she's crushing on you, which is at least a starting point to motivate that kind of change.

Stop and think: What is her family going to think if a 21 year old rolls up on the front step looking to take her out? They are not going to care that you don't want to have sex. That's not the point. It's just too much for a girl her age.

My advice to you is to work on your own self-esteem. Recognize that you have alot of good qualities. You're going to university again (and that's great), and at university, I would suggest that you look around at some of the girls there, many of whom would enjoy being worshipped and adored and having songs written for them, and so on.

And if you still feel the same in five years time, well, she'll be, what, 21 then, right?

Good luck.

Thanks for the response, Alethiea.

Yes, I have thought about what her family would think, and that is one of the reasons I'm having trouble with the age difference. It's not so much that I have a problem with it myself, because I know I have no ill intent. My concern lies mainly in the views of other people.

One of the reasons I have never dated is, I think, because I've never wanted to 'fail.' I always looked at the person and said: "If everything goes well, is this someone I could see myself with in 2 years from now." And that's why few people have had that effect on me, where I love the way they look, act, laugh, and what they talk about. I've just thought it to be foolish to go out with someone, if I know there is almost no chance it could last. Again, this is just personal opinion and I could be Very Very wrong about that, because there are so many arguements both for and against it...but moving on. The best relationships are the ones you're willing to change for, to sacrifice for, and I wanted to make sure the person in question was one that I'd be willing to do that for. I hope that makes things a bit more clear as to my situation.

Again, thank you very much for your input. I read over it a few times, and it's good food for thought, and I will absolutely take it into consideration.

By the way, not sure if it's just me using this as an excuse to fool myself...but most people think I'm 17 to 19 years old.

Yep, you're just trying to fool yourself. That's okay. I really do understand. You want a "great love." That's fantastic. Do you know what that means? Actually, you probably do.

If you actually love the person, there can be no question of ever doing anything that might even remotely harm them. Leave alone that you will completely ruin her reputation if you date her now -- and you know you will, even if your intentions are as pure as the driven snow -- she has to be old enough to choose you of her own free will. If I was to say to you, "she is too young, emotionally, mentally, for what you are offering her, it will do her harm," and you were to honestly understand that to be true, you know you would have to leave her alone for a few years.

Years. While she does the things she needs to do -- goes to school, meets guys, has fun. Has a life.

Love can teach you alot, if you'll let it. If you want real love, then yes, you have to be willing to change, to sacrifice. You think losing weight and changing your hair colour means anything? You're just beginning. You haven't done anything for her yet; that was for you, so that she might notice you. There's nothing wrong with that. But there's more to love than that.

The real sacrifice is spiritual, and begins with selfishness: You have to be able to give up everything you want to share with them, for their sake. You have to be Leonardo di Caprio, down there freezing to death, so Kate Winslet can float around on that piece of wood, and you have to smile about it (that's critical, too; no pressure, ever). You have to leave that door wide open so they can leave anytime they want. They must always be free to choose, to go or to stay. You have to let them be their own person and you must be willing to give up your own happiness for theirs, no matter what that means. Otherwise, you're just kidding yourself.

You could be letting yourself in for a world of pain. On the other hand, you'll have pain anyway -- life is all about pain -- but you only get love a couple of times, tops. Maybe even just once. If it's real, it's not only worth it, you actually won't have a choice.

I hear what you're saying about how honourable your intentions are. Okay. Prove it. Leave her alone to grow up to a level of maturity where she might welcome so much love, where she might be capable of returning it.

By the way, I meant what I said about your self-esteem. You must, absolutely must, pursue your own life. You don't want to try to support a family on the kind of salary you'd make now, do you? Be the man you know you can be. You have dreams, you have ideals to pursue. Nobody falls in love with a guy who hasn't the guts to go out and pursue his ambitions. And yes, date other girls. You do need this to build up your self-esteem; self-esteem doesn't just come from the things we do, it also comes from the relationships we have. You will be a better person and better prepared for the future if you take care to invest in yourself now.

After reading through your posts, the main thing that bothers me is how controlling you're being over the relationships in your life (over, not in). You have such specific criteria that the prospective girl must meet, including that you must experience a special-connection feeling, as well as be able to see yourself with them in 2+ years.

Being spiritual means that you give up control of certain aspects of your life, in the form of trust or faith. It also means being open to what life/God leads you to, whether you think it's what you need or not. We often reject situations or people because they fail to fit to our mould of how it/they should be (ex: the opening scene in beauty and the beast where the king(turned to beast) won't help the poor old lady that comes to the door (who turns out to be some kind of angel/spirit)). Lame example, I know, but there are other similar ones in the bible, and in other spiritual texts.

I'm not a particularly trusting person (working on it). I have incredible relationships with people, but not because I 'picked' them. In fact, the best relationships that I have are with people that I either couldn't see myself with (in 2 years, or ever) or that I didn't choose. These include my two best friends (one since 3months, the other 6yrs) the housemates that became my friends (and I didn't want to move into the house) and my boyfriend (unattracted to him when we first met).

The relationships in which I had chosen the friend/partner just never quite worked out. Why? Possibly because no human being has ultimate knowledge over his future, or knows the best decisions for his life.

The more you get to know people, the more that you realize that you had no idea who they were when you first met them. I agree that there is a spark between people, but that it often comes in subtle ways, or in areas that you wouldn't expect it. If you're only open to one type of girl/relationship -- not even willing to try others -- you'll likely miss out on some great relationships (or even The One). In addition, I've been told that dating is a learning experience of what qualities, and what type of person, are really important to you. Even though you may think you've got it all figured out, you'd be surprised what you could learn from being open to new possibilities.

So, in conclusion, I highly doubt that you will find exactly what you're looking for, at least not for a long time; then once you do find it, it will be a question of [/i]"is this really what I want?". Please don't limit yourself.

Jessie

Jess wrote:After reading through your posts, the main thing that bothers me is how controlling you're being over the relationships in your life (over, not in). You have such specific criteria that the prospective girl must meet, including that you must experience a special-connection feeling, as well as be able to see yourself with them in 2+ years.

Being spiritual means that you give up control of certain aspects of your life, in the form of trust or faith. It also means being open to what life/God leads you to, whether you think it's what you need or not. We often reject situations or people because they fail to fit to our mould of how it/they should be (ex: the opening scene in beauty and the beast where the king(turned to beast) won't help the poor old lady that comes to the door (who turns out to be some kind of angel/spirit)). Lame example, I know, but there are other similar ones in the bible, and in other spiritual texts.

I'm not a particularly trusting person (working on it). I have incredible relationships with people, but not because I 'picked' them. In fact, the best relationships that I have are with people that I either couldn't see myself with (in 2 years, or ever) or that I didn't choose. These include my two best friends (one since 3months, the other 6yrs) the housemates that became my friends (and I didn't want to move into the house) and my boyfriend (unattracted to him when we first met).

The relationships in which I had chosen the friend/partner just never quite worked out. Why? Possibly because no human being has ultimate knowledge over his future, or knows the best decisions for his life.

The more you get to know people, the more that you realize that you had no idea who they were when you first met them. I agree that there is a spark between people, but that it often comes in subtle ways, or in areas that you wouldn't expect it. If you're only open to one type of girl/relationship -- not even willing to try others -- you'll likely miss out on some great relationships (or even The One). In addition, I've been told that dating is a learning experience of what qualities, and what type of person, are really important to you. Even though you may think you've got it all figured out, you'd be surprised what you could learn from being open to new possibilities.

So, in conclusion, I highly doubt that you will find exactly what you're looking for, at least not for a long time; then once you do find it, it will be a question of [/i]"is this really what I want?". Please don't limit yourself.

Jessie

Jess, these 'standards' I've set in place are mainly because I'm scared of myself. I fear not being able to be faithful if it happens to be someone I don't care that deeply about. I'm not saying that I'm like that. I'm just saying that I don't know if I'll be like that. More than 50% of marriages in this country end up in divorce, so it's a very valid concern for me to have. I'll be honest with you. One of my greatest concerns right now is wondering whether I can remain faithful or not later in life. It's something that I've thought about many times. It's a little childish to say...but I want a relationship that is Magical. At least to start. If you don't have magic in the beginning...and it's not someone you would 'gladly' sacrifice for...then the chances of happiness later on in life are diminished, no?

I understand what you're trying to say, but I think you may be picking up the wrong things from what I said. I don't think there's anything wrong with me wanting to wait for a girl that I feel great about, and someone that I could see myself with 2 years down the road. It does mean a lot less prospective date options, but I'm ok with that. If I don't feel a special connection with someone, I'd rather just be friends with them than be in a relationship with them. But my so called 'requirements' aren't what we're here to discuss.

Faithfulness later in life is a realistic concern. But again, it's another sacrifice. You can be careful choosing a marriage partner, and that's a good thing, even to be a little cold-blooded about it. But it's not them who guarantees your faithfulness, it's you. Of course, you understand what I'm saying. Ultimately we are always in control of ourselves.

If you're in love, your faithfulness will not be an issue. You'll find that you won't want anyone else anyway. But the reality is, as Jess said, that we aren't God. There may be other relationships that you can learn from, gain insight from, event hough they are not "the one."

I'm glad you brought this up. It certainly has been interesting.

Armageddon wrote:Jess, these 'standards' I've set in place are mainly because I'm scared of myself. I fear not being able to be faithful if it happens to be someone I don't care that deeply about. I'm not saying that I'm like that. I'm just saying that I don't know if I'll be like that. More than 50% of marriages in this country end up in divorce, so it's a very valid concern for me to have. I'll be honest with you. One of my greatest concerns right now is wondering whether I can remain faithful or not later in life. It's something that I've thought about many times. It's a little childish to say...but I want a relationship that is Magical. At least to start. If you don't have magic in the beginning...and it's not someone you would 'gladly' sacrifice for...then the chances of happiness later on in life are diminished, no?

I understand what you're trying to say, but I think you may be picking up the wrong things from what I said. I don't think there's anything wrong with me wanting to wait for a girl that I feel great about, and someone that I could see myself with 2 years down the road. It does mean a lot less prospective date options, but I'm ok with that. If I don't feel a special connection with someone, I'd rather just be friends with them than be in a relationship with them. But my so called 'requirements' aren't what we're here to discuss.

Ok, so Alethiea understood what I was saying, but I can see how my post may have been confusing. My point was not that you should sacrifice your standards, or settle for a girl that would be less likely to be faithful to you (or you to her) -- by faith I meant a sort of faith in the universe, such that you believe that things beyond your control will work out (most people practice this under a formal religion, others through personal spirituality). Not a faith in your partner.

I don't recall mentioning your standards/"requirements." Anyhow. I don't mean change your standards, I mean change the way you apply them. Keep all that you want about a woman, but try different ways of looking for her. Example: don't be so quick to judge if she's your life-partner. Do you really think that that can be judged in a few hours, days, weeks even? People change as you get to know them, do they not? Have you ever had the experience of "when I first met you, I thought you were totally ____ (serious/aloof/etc) but now that I've gotten to know you, I know that you're really ____ (light-hearted/relaxed".

I think it's wonderful that you're willing to wait for the right one, and I'm not saying you shouldn't be. I'm just worried that you're not letting yourself really get to know these girls you meet, before you throw them out as non-life-partner-material. Just because that butterfly feeling isn't there the first day doesn't mean it won't develop the more you get to know her.

So, to make sure we're understanding eachother, when you meet a girl, what are the qualities that make you feel that special connection? Next, are these qualities personality traits? Do you feel like the more time that you spend with a person, the better you get to know their personality (and that sometimes your first impression of them is wrong)?

Looking for a life partner could be compared to a funneling/filtering process: a wide variety of people go in initially, but as they funnel downward only the ones with the most specific qualities (or the "purest") will remain. The more people you put into your filter, the more you learn about what you're looking for (e.g. "that girl had all of the right qualities and connection, but our relationship styles didn't work together"--> more info for locating right girl). Check out this book for further info: The Year of Yes.

Jessie