am I making a big issue about nothing?

Good to hear from you.

I just want to say that everything you think and feel is perfectly normal. You do exist, what happened to you isn't your fault and you handled it with best personal resources you had at the time. You can't do anything better than that can you.

From what your telling me, there were more instances than three but a few more other things when your sister was around. The reality is your dealing with two pretty damaging situations. Your first abusive relationship and then this family friend. That's a lot to deal with.

I'm wondering, do you live with your parents and if so do they know what happened? Has anyone told this guy they don't want him ringing or coming near the family anymore? I don't think you should have to keep dealing with the fact that he might ring or come around. If he calls again some someone answer the phone and tell him off.

I can see that your angry and that your holding your feelings inside. I can see that your beating yourself up about not dealing with it differently. Anger is a normal human emotion. Women I think are socialised to not express their anger it's seen as unlady like. But feelings are normal. It's what you do with the anger. Sure you don't want to wind up all bitter and twisted about this But I think learning to express yourself in an assertive way, to know that you are someone who is worthy of being treated with respect. You don't need to be an actor as an excuse to scream it out. You can do it now . You could set up a dart board with a picture of him (if you have one) in the middle and throw darts

Sometimes it helps to write in a journal, lots of people use them to get their feelings out express themselves. This might help you too. It also helps to write down what happened in any way that is comfortable for you, get it all out.

It's interesting because sometimes we think we are strong by holding things inside, not getting emotional, not letting our feelings out. But I actually think this makes things worse.

I'm thinking that maybe your interested in learning a few things about communication. Like assertiveness skills. I really liked these and they helped me to feel more confident in communicating with others. They teach you things like how to feel confident in saying no, how to speak your mind. Try doing a google search.

I see that you are a trusting and kind supportive person. But maybe too quick to trust. I think being supportive is a really good trait to have as a person. But I think being careful of getting to no someone very well first before opening up or letting them open up to us is a good strategy to have.

It's totally natural that you feel uncomfortable around men, especially when they are behind you. I think that is all normal and over time you will start to be less jumpy in those kind of situations.

The other thing that really helps is learning to be physically confident. Walking around with a don't mess with me kind of walk. I don't mean you have to go around with a mean look on your face or look like your going to punch the lights out of the first person that looks at you. Self defence classes are really good for that. Do you do much physical exercise? are into sport? maybe get a friend and try out some kick boxing or , make some enquiries about a women's self defence course one where you don't have be turned into some black belt ninja. Unless of course you want you. It's important to know that self defence isn't about preventing sexual assault but it's about giving you a sense of self confidence about yourself.

Sometimes is sucks being a woman. I can feel sometimes that each day we walk a gauntlet of where we are having to avoid men staring at us, perving on us, flashing us or yelling out some kind of rude comment, or advertising. It gets tiring doesn't it.

Hang in there your doing great. Write back if you want to chat more.

Hi, Thanks very much again for your reply.
Yes, I am living with my parents & they do know now about him - however we have just basically cut off contact with him, he has not actually been faced with the reason why.

From my point of view, I don't want to ruin his familys lives if they found out.

I know if I was his wife, I'd want to know - but life can be complex can't it & i don't really see how that is my position to suddenly feel that what he did to me, entitles me to ruin his family.

I would not have a problem letting (just) him know, my mum was actually around when he left the message & was going to pick the phone up but I would have hated it if she had.

Sometimes, I think I would like him to realise the consequences of what he did ... but at the same time I can't bear the thought of anybody else confronting him. Probably because he will not likely say ah, yes I am sorry about that but act hurt/angry/shocked & say I have seriously mis-understood him & lets sort this WHOLE THING out.

Maybe he should know but I don't know what good that will he do, will he realise he has hurt me & break the cycle of that behaviour? - I don't think so.
At the same time, maybe he thinks he has got away with it - if he has any conscience, he can't be at peace.

Perhaps our silence as a family is his greatest tortue, as he is living in anticipation. I only hope that he does not do this to other people - I don't know what he is capable of - I hope his daughters & his friends never have/had to see that part of him.

Its strange but if I ask myself if I am angry with him - mostly I don't feel anything towards him, I just feel blank. Its difficult for me to carry angry thoughts around - if I think of him I mostly just think - why??

I wonder if I can ask this, i know its a bit of a stupid question as I have/had no intent of doing it buttt ... legally speaking, had I felt like I needed to tell somebody & in my scared state - I had rung the police - what would have happened? if anything?
Is it an offence? Also - from his point of view, knowing what he did to me - & hes not stupid, he knows how the law stands, would there be any reason for him to be anxious, in a legal way, about what I might do/say?
I don't really have an idea about it in this context, perhaps its not so straightforward ... I am not going to take any action against him ... but I was wondering if there are any grounds that I could? I know it sounds stupid that I need to know this, if I'm not going to, but I like to be aware of how things work, thats all.

I agree with what you say about speaking, & thats why I think I find it quite hard- I've got to realise its not strength that keeps things inside, its because I am too weak to open the door to let things out!

I think what I have become is greedy for information - I am a bit like an explorer, anything bad that happens - I like to gather information about the situation, anything that makes me see it better, through informed eyes.

Thank you for your suggestions, I think that maybe I do need to 'tweak' my communication skills with people. At the moment, I feel I need 'time off' - but I think its helpful to realise that I may have things about how I react that I can improve on, so I will bear that in mind.

I love to be active, I used to walk alot with our dogs, as I am fortunate to live in the country & we have lots of lovely walks on my doorstep.

However, I have lost the interest to go walking atm, I hardly do it, I hope it will come back, hopefully in the summer - as I love the country & everything. Walking used to be escaping, freedom, fresh air, sunshine, woods, sky - it is still that but I guess now there is that hurry, get back home quick feeling
I think basically I just have to give myself time - and not worry if I react in a situation that reminds me of something etc - its bound to happen isn't it, & I don't need to crash down on myself for 'glamourising' my troubles.

Yes, it can tiring - if men are just constantly throwing unwanted behaviour at you; its not easy to trust them. I'm sure not all men are out to hurt us - & fine, I get that nobodys perfect but it would be nice sometime if they could practise some self control!!

It's good the hear that your family cut off contact with him. I wasn't sure if they knew what happened with you and whether he was still coming around. It would be awful having to have to keep seeing him.

I understand how you feel when you say that you don't want his family finding out. I totally appreciate how you feel and understand what you say. But I want you to remember this. He is responsible for the consequences of his actions. It is him, not you, who is ruining his families life. If somehow the family finds out and things happen, you didn't ruin the family, he did. He has choices about how he acts around women, and he chose to do what he did, and he chooses the consequences of what might happen. It's like any other responsibility he has as a man and a father and a husband or a friend. Liking drinking, spending money, doing drugs it's the choices that he makes and so he must accept the consequences of his actions.

I want you to think about this, not because I think you should tell someone else about what happened, but just as a comparison.

If you were physically assaulted, or you were robbed, you would probably have no hesitation in telling the police, and everyone else would have no problem with you telling the police. Also, I doubt whether you would think too much about how telling the police would ruin the family of the man who robbed you, or physically hit you. This is just a comparison for you to understand how people think and view sexual assault as a crime, in comparison to other crimes and how this impacts on those who have been on the receiving end of sexual assault. These are all crimes, none is less than the other, or has less impact on the victim.

It's totally your choice about who knows and I think it's important that nobody pressure you to do anything you don't want to do. I'm certainly not going to.

I don't think he will feeling bad about what he did. I don't think he thinks he did anything too bad. He probably thinks that what he did is what all men would do. This is how he justifies it, but not all men do behave like him and many men would be horrified and disgusted with him for doing it. Sometimes it takes police action and a court appearance for men to see the seriousness of their actions, and sometimes it takes some punishment or a sex offender treatment program for them get insight into their behavior.

He maybe worried that you have told someone and he maybe worrying about whether he is going to get arrested. Depends whether he has done this before, and then gotten away with it. Would be interesting to know if there were any other victims out there.

It's good that you are not carrying around any anger. I thought that you might be, as this is what you said in your last post;

"I don't really know what i can do, maybe as you say its just like a delayed reaction for justice, so that's what leaves me feeling like this, I feel like i need to become an actor as an excuse to scream at things Evil or Very Mad".

I'm not living in your country but sexual assault laws are very similar world wide.

Here is a link about reporting the crime to the police, its an Australian website, but the same procedure would occur in your country. My understanding is that you can report sexual assaults even if it's in the past. Of course, the physical evidence would be harder to get. DNA etc would be washed away now. It might be helpful for you to look for this same information in your area on google. Even better if you ring a sexual assault line, you can speak anonymously if you want to, and they will be able to provide you with more specific information.

Here is the link, it also has a lot of information around sexual assault and it might be worth surfing around the site. Hopefully you can access the site.

http://www.nswrapecrisis.com.au/Informa ... police.htm

I think it's important for you to learn to challenge some negative thoughts that you have about yourself. I notice they keep cropping up. Negative thoughts lead to negative feelings and then negative behavior. I don't just mean thinking that things will turn out all rosy all the time. But when make negative statements about ourselves, like "I'm weak" then this doesn't help us to become strong. It's more helpful to say...I'm not comfortable with letting my feelings in or expressing my emotions. Then we can find out well, how can I get comfortable with this.

I think being an explorer is a great adventure. The more information you can get on a bad situation the better you can deal with it right!

I know that you have held this in for so long, and it's really only recently that you have allowed things to surface. So it's a lot to take it all in at the moment. I think some assertive communication suggestions, and setting boundaries with people in terms of how much personal information we listen to and divulge will be very helpful down the track.

I don't think your "glamourising" your troubles, but I definitely think you have a lot of negative self talk about yourself and your situation. I think it would be very helpful in getting some skills around this.

In answer to your question about why he committed the assault, again have a look at the website I posted. Some men have very strange beliefs about women. Some men believe they are entitled to sex with a women because that is just the way men are. Highly sexed and they wouldn't be a "real man" if they weren't trying to get some from any opportunity. Fortunately a lot of men grow out of this or develop more respectful attitudes towards women. These beliefs about masculinity and what it means to be a "real man" are rarely challenged in our society on a large scale. In fact they are reinforced and so some men think they are normal. Look at all the movies, magazines, stories and advertising that always show men in very powerful and dominant positions. Always in positions where they are sexually dominant, out for sex, always getting the girl or trying to get the girl.

Here is an American website which I think is very educational and has some great topics if you want to explore this stuff further. If you check out all the topics under gender you will see video previews and information on the stuff I was talking about. Also there is a materials and resources for handouts and other reading stuff to go with the video that you might find interesting to read.

http://www.mediaed.org/cgi-bin/commerce ... ender.html


I guess the thing is you felt you had a lot more freedom outside and now you don't. He took that away from you.

I don't know much about this guy and how he would react if you ever confronted him about what he did. Whether he would get aggressive and threaten you. You know him better than I do.

Its good to hear that things are going ok with you. Talk again if you want to. Who knows where this new info might take you. I've known women to get a whole new perspective on themselves and find a new inspirational area to work or do voluntary work.

I really appreciate your words of wisdom & always feel better hearing them!

I live in the UK - he lives in another country so he can't just call in easily, but he does visit every few months - he was supposed to at the end of last year but he didn't.

I will try & be less negative in my language - also sorry for contradicting myself - saying I was angry & then I wasn't.

I get spots of anger only sometimes. but I don't know where that anger is directed.
Even now, all these people around me can show & feel their anger & disgust & I don't. Some more volatile people have said well I don't know if I could stop myself from running him over if I saw him ... or they could bash him in or scratch his eyes out etc, etc.

I can't say or think - He is scum of the earth, the most disgusting, deceitful man & deserves all thats coming to him & I hope he dies.
It feels wrong & uncomfortable.
Its ok if they say how dare he take advantage of me, or disrespect me or hurt me etc, its not like I condone his actions.

When I was 'in denial' about what happened - I remember my sister saying how she missed him, couldn't wait to see him again etc, thinking I shared her sentiments... it was almost like I wanted to feel like that too but I couldn't.
Its like he took away my emotion - she cried when she said goodbye that last time - I almost felt cheated - I wanted to be able to feel I could cry & miss him! but I felt like a dead stone - vacant.
No emotion towards him whatsoever - no anger, no pain - just blankness.

I think I deluded myself into thinking that somehow it was still the same but I asked myself - did I miss him - this was before I'd even decided to confront that what he did was wrong - and I said no & then I felt liberated
I don't really know what I'm saying - I despise him for what he did, I never want to see him again - but in a way while I did not say anything, was it purely denial or was I trying to protect his name? I don't know, I hope not.

Anyway ... thanks for making it clear about whos ruining what. Thats very true.
My sister said if he was just some random person, she would have no hesitation about reporting him - but as he is quite high profile & mixing in big circles, she fears that he might
ruin our whole lives in some way.

I can see that, but at the same time I DON'T CARE WHO HE IS, it makes it worse - I understand that you can't just rush out & do things without thinking of the consequences - but did he???!!
So yes I may not but I don't want it to be for that reason.
I feel he is just basically controlling us by fear & I don't like that.

Yes ... gender equality is sometimes seriously lacking.

What is so hard, without going into too much detail, is that all these things - gender equality, respect of women, empowering them etc - that was his whole life, his whole ethos, his daily work
All that stuff about supremecy, male dominace, cultural trapping of women - thats what he APPARANTLY was out to change!!

Thats what the biggest hurt was, all those good things, I just don't understand - he was so passionate & directed & there he was just behaving like these people he so condemned.
HE would have been the person I would have run to had someone else done it.
He knew about the suffering ... but I guees he didn't care & I saw his true colours.

Had he been some bloke who worked at a bar with not so much of an inkling of what gender equality meant, for me, it would have been perahps easier to understand - but for him to be so intent on spreading the word for a better world for women & then do that, I was devastated.

It makes you wonder what on earth he is doing to other women.

Also, I think I mentioned - there is a girl who I think he may have done something too - no proof whatsoever apart from little signs; so I told her something happened, didn't tell her who - just told her when.
And she has asked who it is, does she know him & am I going to be visiting (the man in question) soon?

I don't know what to say. Most of me wants to tell her - but my family are cautious & say well maybe don't name him, so part of me thinks ok & then on the other hand I think - She has a right to know. But I don't know. I feel if I don't tell her he has won & she is less important than him.

Anyway, I think its time for bed! I thought I was supposed to be going onwards & upwards
Thank you for the links, I will have a look.

... a PS! and as usual sharp & quick to the point, I don't think

I think what made it more confusing, was that the night before, some guy, some 'friend' of the family (I will call him Mr A) - had kind of come onto me - I think he was more like snow in Alaska (expected) whereas the other one was like a savannah snowman.

Still snow ... but the environment makes the difference, if you see what I mean.
Ok, so Mr A, we were basically having a chat & I ... was feeling a bit emotionally vulnerable maybe because of verbal abusive guy a few weeks earlier, so because he was talking about me - I didn't feel happy & he was telling me he thought I was beautiful & I just didn't want to hear that at that time - it wasn't constructive, I wasn't being nasty to him but I said he must be drunk!!

I don't actually feel great if a man says I am beautiful & pushes the point - they can say ah you look pretty, ok thats fine, great, really interesting, but if they start laying it on thick - it freaks me out.

Anyway, I just kind of laughed at him & then went a bit quiet - he was being kind & put his arm round me, in a nice way - I didn't have a problem with that.

But then he - well he started groping me.
My breasts at first, like trying to get in my bra - so I just kept pushing him off, I was totally not wanting that kind of attention!
I made it clear I didn't want too - he said he wasn't going to do anything I didn't want to do & proceeded to grope around with me 'down there' if you get what I mean & I kept having to push him off me & then he got my hand & put it on his 'area' and kept saying kiss me, kiss me - like a mantra - I don't think I was scared but I felt a bit disturbed because I didn't want what he was doing to me at all. I think I was a bit shocked. But at the same time i think what do you expect & he wasn't trying to be nasty and hes just some guy trying his luck - 'like they do'.
So he tried to kiss me & I said erm sorry but i can't! - because really I had had enough - he seemed a nice enough person & he was gradually deteriorating in my eyes.

I am not bringing this up because I think he sexually assaulted me -because I don't think he was a predatory rapist, he didn't restrain me - but i do think when you say NO & when you push & hit people away from your body - they should listen to you.

Just because I brush aside their personal comments about me - do they think that I have really low self-esteem that I would do anything to feel beautiful?
erm, I don't think so - I will feel beautiful when i want too - they can't control that.

Anyway, I was disturbed by that in a way, its not that I don't know what men are like - but the fact that I think if you 'fancy' someone - there should be stepping stones, its not like he was off his head or we were on a date - I just feel maybe sharing a kiss comes BEFORE groping with every private part of my body that I don't want you to touch.

Anyway, maybe I just over-reacted - it felt wrong though & he vanished, I expected him to get back in touch as he was going to give me something - maybe he just thought to hell with me for not accepting his advances, hmm it seems strange that he would let that get to him.
Anyway - I felt like an idiot & that next afternoon - the other 'friend' in question took me off & molested me.
So I think - because Mr A was still fresh in my mind (& making me feel sick) I think maybe I thought ohhhh, so this is what every man does is it? and its called trying their luck?

I know it isn't but I think that occasion, where maybe Mr A was just trying his luck in a fancy-me way, confused me - because some elements were the same as the molesting - but it was different, but I wondered was it the same.

There ... all that to reach that epic conclusion!

Hi, TangleBerry! If any one touches you in a sexual way and you don't want them to and you told them to stop, it is assault. It's not just some guy trying his luck, I'm glad you realize that now. People react in different ways in situations like these and it is not your fault. You did what your instinct told you would keep you safe.
If you think that the man who assaulted you on holiday might be hurting someone else, you should tell somebody in his family or tell the police so that he won't hurt any one else. Could you contact his wife and have your family support you?

I would look tell your somebody, don't let him get away with that, may be it has happened to other girls as well.
it is impossible to try to foresee a criminal act like that. but you can prepare for it.
He may look nice and be all smiles with everyone but he is a criminal

TangleBerry wrote:...

Anyway, I just kind of laughed at him & then went a bit quiet - he was being kind & put his arm round me, in a nice way - I didn't have a problem with that.

But then he - well he started groping me.
My breasts at first, like trying to get in my bra - so I just kept pushing him off, I was totally not wanting that kind of attention!
I made it clear I didn't want too - he said he wasn't going to do anything I didn't want to do & proceeded to grope around with me 'down there' if you get what I mean & I kept having to push him off me & then he got my hand & put it on his 'area' and kept saying kiss me, kiss me - like a mantra - I don't think I was scared but I felt a bit disturbed because I didn't want what he was doing to me at all. I think I was a bit shocked. But at the same time i think what do you expect & he wasn't trying to be nasty and hes just some guy trying his luck - 'like they do'.
So he tried to kiss me & I said erm sorry but i can't! - because really I had had enough - he seemed a nice enough person & he was gradually deteriorating in my eyes.

Yes this is sexual assault. It's hard to understand I know. You look for all the stereotypes you know about sexual offenders. Like predatory behavior or restraining you, or using violence and aggression. But the majority of sexual offenders are known to the victim. The assault happens in the victims home or the offenders home. The majority of child sex offenders do not use violence or aggression and rape is rare. What you see and read about in the news is not a typical offender they rarely make the news, but are arrested and go to trial and go to gaol or receive community treatment.

Legally speaking they both would probably be charged with indecent assault. But I'm no legal expert.

Both of these men may have different personalities and different ways of responding to you and different modes of behavior. But they have still committed an sexual offence.

I don't care if both of them were drunken teenagers, what they did was still unacceptable, still wrong and still a criminal offence. You were looking for support from them after telling them about an abusive ex boyfriend and they interpreted that as you wanting sex. How stupid are they. There are other men out there would have responded differently and appropriately. These men should have too, there is no excuse for their behvior.

Here is a UK link that might be better for you.

http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/

Not all sex offences are about penetration and violence and I think this is what your struggling with and what a lot of people struggle with. It's understandable.

I think it would be helpful for you to speak to a professional counselor about what happened to you. You are not making a fuss over nothing.

I think the important thing is how much of an effect this has had on you. It's made you question yourself, when you did nothing wrong, they did. Your afraid and jumpy in public places. You feel differently about walking your dog alone. You question whether what they did was wrong and whether you did something wrong.

I think this has had a negative impact on you and it would have a negative impact on anyone.

You are moving onward and upward. You talking about what happened, your facing your feelings and your learning about stuff. Your even prepared to perhaps learn some assertiveness skills. I think you could learn about setting boundaries. About not revealing too much too soon about personal issues with people. Wait before your truly understand someone and even then some personal information is only shared with one really trusted personal friend. Even better a counselor because they are trained to respond appropriately, some friends don't know how do that.

Thanks for the posts everyone ... I think the other guy, well i can live with that & would be stupid to think it doesn't happen - I don't think he wished me ill intent, he was just being a fool.

But about everything, I feel like I've come back in a circle, if i was angry with him & thought he was a criminal than maybe that would be easier but if I boil everything up - my shock of what he did, all the other little things - I don't come out with a feeling, a nice clear-cut feeling of anger/resentment towards him at all.

Yes I was shocked that he did that
No I did not like it, want it, condone it
Yes I was worried if he might rape me
Yes I did despise him for doing that
Yes he did offend me
No I do not think i caused it to happen

but but
that doesn't feel enough
Its all these outside voices saying i should feel angry with him but it doesn't match how I want to feel - so if I have to think of him as a criminal, I'd want him to be treated like a criminal. But I don't.

But I can't treat him as a friend & say uh, I'm sorry I think we have a bit of a misunderstanding & due to my malfunctioning communication skills things went a bit wrong - its not like that either.

I almost feel I can think of it easier as a form of unrequited love, yes i know - it sounds sick ... but anyway hmm, i almost feel like if your friend stole some money & instead of maybe taking them aside & confronting them & asking why- you run off & tell the whole world how they are a cheat & a liar & you never want to see them again.

Anyway, i guess its just because I can't tell whats actually the difference between a feeling and a transient emotion atm.

I'm sure I'll settle on how i really feel one day, so for now i'll just drift along till i decide.

TangleBerry wrote:Its all these outside voices saying i should feel angry with him but it doesn't match how I want to feel - so if I have to think of him as a criminal, I'd want him to be treated like a criminal. But I don't.

You don't have to see him as criminal if you don' t want to. If you aren't comfortable or you don't want to be angry with him you don't have to do that either. You can see the situation anyway you like if it helps you to recover.

Just a thought, perhaps you are uncomfortable with anger, a lot a women aren't comfortable with feeling that way. It sometimes makes them feel out of control or can make them feel bad. Just a thought for you to think about.

Perhaps you don't want to see him as a criminal because that make the situation seem serious and you might then feel pressured into having to report him to the police, and that's a scary thing. Perhaps if you see it a not such a big deal or minimize what happened, then it seem less overwhelming and that's easier to cope with.

TangleBerry wrote:I almost feel I can think of it easier as a form of unrequited love, yes i know - it sounds sick ... but anyway hmm,

I wouldn't put it quite like that. Not because I think your sick . When a crisis happens to us, sometimes in order to cope we can first deny that it happened and then we accept it, but then minimize the seriousness of it. Bit by bit, we allow what happened to enter our minds so that we can process and come to terms with what happened. Maybe this is what has happened to you.

TangleBerry wrote:i almost feel like if your friend stole some money & instead of maybe taking them aside & confronting them & asking why- you run off & tell the whole world how they are a cheat & a liar & you never want to see them again.

I think I know what you mean, what your saying is this happened the guy was a jerk, a liar, a fool and he treated me badly. I don't want to ever see him again. That's ok, if that's the way you feel.

The important thing is working out If this has affected you,

Are you sleeping ok? eating ok?. Do you still go out with your friends and socialise? are you feeling down, sad, or are your feelings all over the place?

The fact that a lot of people are expressing anger about what happened to you is an indication of how serious they think it was. That is a good thing, better than sweeping it under the carpet. That doesn't mean that you have to go along with them. Sometimes other peoples anger doesn't help you and can make you feel worse. What you want is support and for people to listen and just understand.

so I'm here for that. Feel free to keep talking