Questions about initiating sex on a sleeping partner

First off, I want to say this question could be a trigger to some people, especially those who have experienced sexual assault during sleep or unconsciousness.

Please don't call me a "victim blamer" or "rape apologist" for asking; I'm legitimately trying to understand some issues I don't get with this subject, due to the varying opinions I've heard from people.

I've heard mixed opinions when it comes to the subject of initiating sex on a sleeping person. Note I'm talking about initiating sex with a significant other and they are asleep, not someone they have no relationship with, and not on someone who is unconscious from intoxication, drugs, or incapable of consent due to disability.

1. I've heard people call it "rape" and "sexual assault" to initiate sex with your sleeping partner. But what about couples that enjoy it? I.E. my boyfriend once didn't initiate oral sex but did initiate "intimate touching" on my lips without asking ahead of time. I woke up and not only liked it, but we had sex afterwards. Some people would call it sexual assault (maybe even rape since he did touch my teeth). But if I enjoy it, would it still be considered assault because he didn't ask?

2. What about cases where the initiator doesn't ask but thinks it would be fun and spontaneous but didn't mean harm? Is that considered assault or a bad choice?

3. What about if someone initiates thinking it would turn their partner on, the other person dislikes it when they wake up, and the initiator stops?

I'm just trying to understand these gray areas. Now obviously if the person expresses ahead of time they don't like it or don't want it that night, it's rape. But I'm wondering about cases where the initiator meant well and no harm, whether the person they initiate on likes it or doesn't and the initiator stops once told to.

Thanks.

I'm off for the night pretty soon, but wanted to reply quickly before I log out.

I really do think that this is the exact reason why couples need a proper discussion on their levels of comfort before doing anything like this. What is intrusive, invasive and classified as assault by one person, would maybe be something that someone else would be okay with.
There are obviously things that are always unacceptable and assault/rape.. but as you said, when you get into the things like this, it's so so individual.

Looking at your numbered points, I'd personally feel incredibly not okay with waking up to find that being brushed against my mouth. As for whether it's sexual assault.. you didn't view it as such at the time, and maybe your partner knew you well enough to figure that you'd be okay with it.
Do you think that's the case?


2. Again, it depends on the receiver in question.. if the person doing that genuinely thought that his/her advances would be welcomed, but they didn't clarify beforehand, then to me it's simply a bad choice, and he/she needs to have some education about the need for a prior discussion.
3. see my response to 2.


Other people are going to have a wide range of views, and I'm just one person, but that's how I view it for myself.

I'm comfortable with some things that some other people might not be.. for me personally I'm more than happy to be woken up by being gently touched (not on my mouth by their penis though.. just no from me).. as long as the person only touches - they start trying to insert any body part before I'm awake enough to voice my consent and they're way overstepping and they're into assault territory.


What made you start thinking about all of this though? was it because of your boyfriend waking you up by intimately touching your lips, or was it something else?

What started it was the fact I've experienced it, and since have read threads where people discuss their sex lives and articles on sexual assault. Plus I'm fascinated by the FBI and just happened to see their updated definition of "rape". When it comes to consent, I've noticed debates on initiating on a sleeping partner and drunk sex (I've never had drunk sex, but have mixed feelings on this issue as well).

To me it's fine as long as he stops if I do tell him to back off, which he's been good with. We both prefer implied consent to affirmative consent, and have known this awhile. He himself is OK with his partner initiating on him while he's asleep. I never really thought about it much, and we didn't discuss it.

Not going by legal definitions,I wouldn't have cared if he'd gone even slightly further, as long as he didn't make me gag (he knows I don't like that). We've discussed it since though, and I told him I'm OK with initiating during sleep, so we now have given verbal consent. It caught me by surprise, but I didn't find it to be assault, which is why I felt confusion when I'd see people say "it's always assault", but then would see others says "it's not assault, they're your partner". So this whole mixed view on what works for "consent" had me confused.

Me and my partner occasionally wake each other up by sensual touching to see if the other is up for it. No erogenous zones. Which makes sense to me.. if I was having a weird dream or felt bad I'd probably freak out if I woke up to someone putting stuff in me. With just touching, I'll probably wake up and then I can decide for myself if I want things to actually turn sexual.

arice725 wrote:What started it was the fact I've experienced it, and since have read threads where people discuss their sex lives and articles on sexual assault. Plus I'm fascinated by the FBI and just happened to see their updated definition of "rape". When it comes to consent, I've noticed debates on initiating on a sleeping partner and drunk sex (I've never had drunk sex, but have mixed feelings on this issue as well).

To me it's fine as long as he stops if I do tell him to back off, which he's been good with. We both prefer implied consent to affirmative consent, and have known this awhile. He himself is OK with his partner initiating on him while he's asleep. I never really thought about it much, and we didn't discuss it.

Not going by legal definitions,I wouldn't have cared if he'd gone even slightly further, as long as he didn't make me gag (he knows I don't like that). We've discussed it since though, and I told him I'm OK with initiating during sleep, so we now have given verbal consent. It caught me by surprise, but I didn't find it to be assault, which is why I felt confusion when I'd see people say "it's always assault", but then would see others says "it's not assault, they're your partner". So this whole mixed view on what works for "consent" had me confused.

Totally understand the confusion.. and I can't provide much clarity either really. It's something we all have to make our own minds up on. If we all agreed, then the 'grey' areas would no longer be grey.. they'd be black/white.. solid.

I have mixed feelings on drunk sex as well.. for myself I'm clear (I'm good unless I can't speak to voice my agreement) - but for others, it really does depend on how drunk they were, and how drunk the other person was.
I'd have less of a problem with being touched when I'm drunk than I would when I'm sleeping.. but that's only for me, I'm a bit unusual in the way I get drunk (or don't get drunk.. and that's the point for me). I don't lose the ability to make decisions - most other people do. I've never had sex while drunk with a person that I would have said no to sober (too early perhaps.. but would still have said yes at some point in the not too distant future).

But.. for the most part, since this is so individual - I think that every person needs to be taught to have a conversation with whoever they're sleeping/having sex with.

The guy that did that to you, if he did that to someone else in the future = he may end up seriously regretting not having discussed this before he acted.

Lusid wrote:if I was having a weird dream or felt bad I'd probably freak out if I woke up to someone putting stuff in me. With just touching, I'll probably wake up and then I can decide for myself if I want things to actually turn sexual.

That's it for me as well.. I'm often not in the best mental state when I wake up, so would likely freak slightly to being woken up like that. Being woken by being touched, that's fine.. I can decide after that if I want to actually have sex or not.
I'm fine with erogenous zones.. just don't want my body invaded unless I'm awake/conscious.